How important is what we did in high school? Kavanaugh accusation

[Just_A_Guy]

15 minutes ago, Vort said:

The article is a lie, albeit a rather subtle lie. It equates an accusation against a man -- an accusation with no corroborating evidence, one whose details cannot be verified or even be specified (when and where the alleged activity was supposed to have taken place) -- with the protestations of Innocence of an accused man with an adult lifetime of exemplary behavior and no other reason to suppose him guilty. The two are not reasonably comparable. Suggesting they are, as the article does, is a lie.

Does it equate them, really?  I read it as more simply saying that none of us really know for sure either way; which I think is a fair statement.

[estradling75]

14 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Does it equate them, really?  I read it as more simply saying that none of us really know for sure either way; which I think is a fair statement.

That was my read as well... The position people take on this issue says more about their character then the character of the people in question.   And I am ok with what my stance says about me... even though I know others will attempt to monster paint me because I do not agree with them.

 

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Does it equate them, really?  I read it as more simply saying that none of us really know for sure either way; which I think is a fair statement.

JAG, when I was 15, I saw you rob a 7-11. I saw it with my own eyes! It happened! I don't quite remember when or where, or who all was there, but you did rob that 7-11! You can deny, but it's TRUE, you bad, bad man!

Oh, well, I guess the fact is that no one else really knows. Maybe you did knock over that 7-11, or maybe you didn't. We just can't be sure.

But one thing is certain: It is completely fair for people to compare my accusation with your denial and basically equate the two by saying, "Hey, who really knows?"

 

 

P.S. For the sarcasm-impaired: JAG is the soul of honesty. He did not and would not knock over a 7-11. And if he did, it was a long time ago.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Vort

[Just_A_Guy]

34 minutes ago, Vort said:

JAG, when I was 15, I saw you rob a 7-11. I saw it with my own eyes! It happened! I don't quite remember when or where, or who all was there, but you did rob that 7-11! You can deny, but it's TRUE, you bad, bad man!

Oh, well, I guess the fact is that no one else really knows. Maybe you did knock over that 7-11, or maybe you didn't. We just can't be sure.

But one thing is certain: It is completely fair for people to compare my accusation with your denial and basically equate the two by saying, "Hey, who really knows?"

Just for that, Vort, I’m not going to tell you where I hid your 50% share of the takings.  

But seriously:  If you made the accusation under your real name and said “I, Vorty McVortface*, saw you, Atticus Finch**, knock over a 7-11 in New Jersey around 1990-ish”—there’s at least a real-life person on each side of the accusation.  *I* know it isn’t true; but I don’t blame anyone who says “gee, I’m not absolutely sure”.  Because, they *aren’t* sure.

 

 

 

 

*That’s his real name, folks.  Honest!

**My real-life alter ego.  Really!

Edited September 22, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[Colirio]

The problem with @Just_A_Guy's explanation is that I can't really trust someone who robbed a 7-11 as a teenager. 

[Just_A_Guy]

38 minutes ago, Colirio said:

The problem with @Just_A_Guy's explanation is that I can't really trust someone who robbed a 7-11 as a teenager. 

Not even for ten percent?

[zil]

3 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Not even for ten percent?

What does that amount to?  A Slurpee and a 128oz soda?

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Vorty McVortface*,

*That’s his real name, folks.  Honest!

I don't understand. What's the big deal? Is this some of anti-Irish bigotry? Shor'en eym proud -- proud, aye tell ye -- proud 'o me Irish roots! Éirinn go Brách!

Edited September 22, 2018 by Vort

[anatess2]

7 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

This is true; but as a parent of boys who *will be* teenagers I plan to make sure they understand that it’s also possible for even a teenaged boy to live in such a way that even if someone made such an accusation—virtually no one would believe it.  Someone who has no reputation for getting puke-your-guts-out, blackout drunk (or who is frequently in the company of others who do); is going to have a harder time getting and keeping that sort of patina on their character.   

Meanwhile, this article strikes me as a reasonably clear-eyed view of the current situation.  

Kavanaugh situation shows you in stark clarity that even goodie two shoes Catholic altar boys don’t have a defense against the harpies out to get him.  Just the fact that people on LDS.net unfamiliar with his goodie two shoes life are considering the possibility that he is a RAPIST. 

Go to Reddit r/news and you will see all the women calling Clarence Thomas a rapist TODAY.

Edited September 22, 2018 by anatess2

[Just_A_Guy]

5 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Kavanaugh situation shows you in stark clarity that even goodie two shoes Catholic altar boys don’t have a defense against the harpies out to get him.  Just the fact that people on LDS.net unfamiliar with his goodie two shoes life are considering the possibility that he is a RAPIST. 

Go to Reddit r/news and you will see all the women calling Clarence Thomas a rapist TODAY.

“Altar boy”?  Maybe.  I’d like to know from Mark Judge, whether “Bart O’Kavanaugh” and Brett Kavanaugh are one and the same person.  

[Colirio]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Not even for ten percent?

Robbery ---> bribery

 

He's escalating!

 

Next thing you know he'll become a lawyer! 

 

🤑

[JohnsonJones]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

“Altar boy”?  Maybe.  I’d like to know from Mark Judge, whether “Bart O’Kavanaugh” and Brett Kavanaugh are one and the same person.  

From what I have heard, I think Bart is actually Brett's brother.  I probably am not keeping up with current events, but what does that have do with the confirmation hearing?

I'm not positive about the above (just to clarify) but I believe I heard about a brother named Bart previously.  That said, still not sure why this has to do with the confirmation hearing.  However, Bart's last name wasn't O'Kavanaugh, it was the same as Brett's last name.

Edited September 22, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[NeuroTypical]

3 hours ago, Vort said:

4 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Vorty McVortface*,

*That’s his real name, folks.  Honest!

I don't understand. What's the big deal? Is this some of anti-Irish bigotry? Shor'en eym proud -- proud, aye tell ye -- proud 'o me Irish roots! Éirinn go Brách!

The RRS Sir David Attenborough does not think this conversation is funny.

[anatess2]

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

“Altar boy”?  Maybe.  I’d like to know from Mark Judge, whether “Bart O’Kavanaugh” and Brett Kavanaugh are one and the same person.  

Uhm, JAG, he was LITERALLY an altar boy.

And your responses here proves my point.

Edited September 23, 2018 by anatess2

[Guest MormonGator]

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

“Altar boy”?  

I was an altar boy for about 10 years. It means nothing to who you are as an adult. Like most altar boys, I only did it so I'd stop falling asleep in church. 

 

That, and you could make twenty bucks or so serving weddings. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by MormonGator

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

From what I have heard, I think Bart is actually Brett's brother.  I probably am not keeping up with current events, but what does that have do with the confirmation hearing?

I'm not positive about the above (just to clarify) but I believe I heard about a brother named Bart previously.  That said, still not sure why this has to do with the confirmation hearing.  However, Bart's last name wasn't O'Kavanaugh, it was the same as Brett's last name.

I know the last names are different, @JohnsonJones.  The question is whether Judge, when he wrote of the puke-drunk “Bart O’Kavanaigh”, was making a thinly veiled reference to his friend Brett Kavanaugh.  And to clarify—none of this is particularly relevant, except insofar as some folks try to bolster his character by suggesting that Kavanaugh was a good little church boy whose lips nary touched even a drop of liquor. 

47 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Uhm, JAG, he was LITERALLY an altar boy.

And your responses here proves my point.

As yours misses mine.   If, as Mark Judge seems to suggest, Kavanaugh was a hard partier/drinker in high school; then his character is *not* above reproach—regardless of whatever his ecclesiastical responsibilities may have been.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[carlimac]

OK What if he did it? He was under the influence of alcohol.It never amounted to rape because he couldn't even get her clothing off. And who's to say he was actually trying to rape her? Maybe he just wanted a peek.  It was a one time thing. He was under legal age. Lots of teenagers do dumb things. I'd be willing to bet a hefty amount of folks in high places have skeletons like this in their closets. So do we go around and interview all the high school and college friends of Congressmen and Senators and lawyers  and already sitting judges to find out if they are actually qualified to do their jobs? Heaven forbid anyone of them went too far when they were a hormone raged 16 yr old. 

As long as he isn't an alcoholic or drug abuser and no other women have accused him of anything, what in the world does this one time event have to do with the responsibilities he would have as a Supreme Court judge?  Where has common sense gone??  The Supreme Court isn't church.

Edited September 23, 2018 by carlimac

[carlimac]

29 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I know the last names are different, @JohnsonJones.  The question is whether Judge, when he wrote of the puke-drunk “Bart O’Kavanaigh”, was making a thinly veiled reference to his friend Brett Kavanaugh.  And to clarify—none of this is particularly relevant, except insofar as some folks try to bolster his character by suggesting that Kavanaugh was a good little church boy whose lips nary touched even a drop of liquor. 

As yours misses mine.   If, as Mark Judge seems to suggest, Kavanaugh was a hard partier/drinker in high school; then his character is *not* above reproach—regardless of whatever his ecclesiastical responsibilities may have been.

What if he has repented? 

[Guest MormonGator]

In fairness @Just_A_Guy, if I dug around in your past and pestered enough people, I could make you out to a scumbag too. That doesn't mean @Just_A_Guy is a scumbag (he isn't, using him as an example) , but it means all of us, every single one (yes, even you reading this) has skeletons in the closet. 

You want to know a dirty little secret? In politics, if I couldn't find anything in your past that makes you out to be a terrible person, I'd either make something up that you didn't do at all, or I'd spin something you did so wildly out of proportion that it makes you out to be a monster. 

And what you did in high school is irrelevant to who you are as an adult .The bad and the good.  If you were an honor student or if you were the class clown or the loser in the back who didn't graduate. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by MormonGator

[Just_A_Guy]

50 minutes ago, carlimac said:

OK What if he did it? He was under the influence of alcohol.It never amounted to rape because he couldn't even get her clothing off. And who's to say he was actually trying to rape her? Maybe he just wanted a peek.  It was a one time thing. He was under legal age. Lots of teenagers do dumb things. I'd be willing to bet a hefty amount of folks in high places have skeletons like this in their closets. So do we go around and interview all the high school and college friends of Congressmen and Senators and lawyers  and already sitting judges to find out if they are actually qualified to do their jobs? Heaven forbid anyone of them went too far when they were a hormone raged 16 yr old. 

As long as he isn't an alcoholic or drug abuser and no other women have accused him of anything, what in the world does this one time event have to do with the responsibilities he would have as a Supreme Court judge?  Where has common sense gone??  The Supreme Court isn't church.

As I said a few days ago:  behold, what Trump hath wrought in the GOP.  You’d never have seen a conservative making this argument in defense of a leftist judge named “Kennedy” rather than “Kavanaugh”.

I’m getting awfully tired of ostensibly conservative women who are happy to play rape roulette with other people’s daughters.  This is beyond sick.  

And what’s really irritating is that it’s so totally unnecessary, because Ford’s accusations are such thin gruel.  We could have had our cake and eat it too, saying “yes, rape’s a big deal; but it doesn’t seem to be what happened in this case.”  (Dems would have Demed, of course; but the mainstream of the country would have been with us.)  But nooooo . . . trust the Stupid Party to start navel gazing about whether an attempted rape was reeeeeally an attempted rape and, even if it was, whether rape of a teenager by a teenager is such a terrible thing . . . 

32 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

In fairness @Just_A_Guy, if I dug around in your past and pestered enough people, I could make you out to a scumbag too. That doesn't mean @Just_A_Guy is a scumbag, but it means all of us, every single one (yes, even you reading this) has skeletons in the closet. 

You want to know a dirty little secret? If I couldn't find anything in your past that makes you out to be a terrible person, I'd either make something up that you didn't do at all, or I'd spin something you did so wildly out of proportion that it makes you out to be a monster. 

And what you did in high school is irrelevant to who you are as an adult .The bad and the good.  If you were an honor student or if you were the class clown or the loser in the back who didn't graduate. 

Sure, you could find a lot in my history I’m not proud of.  Frankly, I’ve probably got enough traffic-related violations alone to keep me eternally off the bench of any court.  But you will never find a person who can honestly say I tried to forcibly remove their clothing, in a bedroom, while silencing their calls for help.

And if you could find such a person, @MormonGator, then—high sentiments aside—I daresay you’d never trust me alone with your underaged daughter; no matter how long my “skeleton” had stayed buried.  You would not, for example, send her in for a one-on-one bishop’s interview with me to discuss her masturbation problem. 

No matter how much we want to leave the past in the past, sometimes the stakes are high enough that “dumb” high-school hijinks suddenly become very relevant.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Sure, you could find a lot in my history I’m not proud of.

Oh, same here. No one is perfect. 

4 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

 But you will never find a person who can honestly say I tried to forcibly remove their clothing, in a bedroom, while silencing their calls for help.

I will bet you that if the stakes were high enough, and your job suddenly became very important (lets say that a liberal judge, God forbid, passes away on the supreme court and they appoint a conservative to take their place. A conservative named @Just_A_Guy) that someone could be found to say you did. Even if you didn't. 

*No, I don't know if JAG is a conservative, again, using him as an example. I think the world of him, he's a great guy. 

7 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

No matter how much we want to leave the past in the past, sometimes the stakes are high enough that “dumb” high-school hijinks suddenly become very relevant.

I disagree. Short of a homicide, what you did in high school is irrelevant. Unless it becomes a pattern of behavior. 

Again, this isn't personal @Just_A_Guy.  I can't imagine you getting traffic violations, much less doing anything more serious. 

[Just_A_Guy]

10 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Oh, same here. No one is perfect. 

I will bet you that if the stakes were high enough, and your job suddenly became very important (lets say that a liberal judge, God forbid, passes away on the supreme court and they appoint a conservative to take their place. A conservative named @Just_A_Guy) that someone could be found to say you did. Even if you didn't. 

*No, I don't know if JAG is a conservative, again, using him as an example. I think the world of him, he's a great guy. 

If someone’s willing to put their name to such an accusation, then I’m perfectly willing to let them have their say; under oath.  (I can crucify ‘em, and I know it.)

Quote

I disagree. Short of a homicide, what you did in high school is irrelevant. Unless it becomes a pattern of behavior. 
 

You’d be OK with the specific hypothetical I posted?

[carlimac]

15 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

As I said a few days ago:  behold, what Trump hath wrought in the GOP.  You’d never have seen a conservative making this argument in defense of a leftist judge named “Kennedy” rather than “Kavanaugh”.

I’m getting awfully tired of ostensibly conservative women who are happy to play rape roulette with other people’s daughters.  This is beyond sick.  

And what’s really irritating is that it’s so totally unnecessary, because Ford’s accusations are such thin gruel.  We could have had our cake and eat it too, saying “yes, rape’s a big deal; but it doesn’t seem to be what happened in this case.”  But nooooo . . . trust the Stupid Party to start navel gazing about whether an attempted rape was reeeeeally an attempted rape and, even if it was, whether rape of a teenager by a teenager is such a terrible thing . . . 

Sure, you could find a lot in my history I’m not proud of.  Frankly, I’ve probably got enough traffic-related violations alone to keep me eternally off the bench of any court.  But you will never find a person who can honestly say I tried to forcibly remove their clothing, in a bedroom, while silencing their calls for help.

And if you could find such a person, @MormonGator, then—high sentiments aside—I daresay you’d never trust me alone with your underaged daughter; no matter how long my “skeleton” had stayed buried.  You would not, for example, send her in for a one-on-one bishop’s interview with me to discuss her masturbation problem. 

No matter how much we want to leave the past in the past, sometimes the stakes are high enough that “dumb” high-school hijinks suddenly become very relevant.

I have high respect for you JAG and I know you have had personal experience with these cases and they sicken you. I don't know about MormonGator, but as for me, this has nothing to do with Trump or the GOP. It has everything to do with seeing things in perspective.  If I knew the man had been a rabble rouser in high school but turned his life around, had become serious about doing good and had had several FBI investigations into his life done-turning up nothing, I would have no problem letting this mid 50's man interview my daughter in private. Even about sexual problems.  I just don't believe that a one time non-rape event a rapist makes.  I don't know what you mean by the Stupid Party or navel gazing but I'm slow and simple minded.  I'm far more wary of the adult women trying to obstruct a very important vote for a Supreme Court judge with wishy-washy trickery and hypocrisy. I would NOT let my daughter hang out with them for any length of time if I could prevent it. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by carlimac

[Guest MormonGator]

15 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

If someone’s willing to put their name to such an accusation, then I’m perfectly willing to let them have their say; under oath.  (I can crucify ‘em, and I know it.)

It doesn't matter if you can crucify them or not. If I throw enough dirt at you, even if it's fake, it'll stick. 

 

15 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

You’d be OK with the specific hypothetical I posted?

Asking if I'd be "okay" with it is a loaded question. Like asking if I've stopped cheating on my wife yet. While I wouldn't approve of that kind of behavior, what you did as a minor or in your senior year in high school doesn't reflect the grown up, mature person that you are. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by MormonGator

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

 Atticus Finch**

**My real-life alter ego.  Really!

Oh.  I see what you did there...