SJWism is destroying Disney!

[Guest Godless]

5 hours ago, anatess2 said:

First off - Hayden is an AMAZING ACTOR.  He delivered bad lines.  That’s not his fault.  Anakin/Vader was amazingly nuanced in his portrayal of the complexity of the character.  There’s a YouTube video showcasing these nuances and I’ll edit this post to include it when I find the thing.  Hayden in Life of a House is another one of those special performances.  To equate him to Kristen Stewart is ignorant.

The rest of your spiel above comes straight from the mouths of Disney-Star Wars execs like Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson, et al.  It displays a complete failure to understand the issue.  Star Wars fans critiquing Star Wars movies is a cultural tradition in the fandom.  OT fans vs Prequel fans, Rebel fans vs Empire fans, Movie Purist fans vs EU fans, Jake Lloyd-Anakin haters vs defenders, etc etc etc.  What caused the fandom war against Disney is the unity of these rabid fans in their dislike of The Last Jedi, in the same vein as their unity in their dislike of Jarjar Binks.  But instead of understanding Why (the destruction of key Star Wars mythology, the mis characterization of Luke and Leia Skywalker, the shallowness of Rey, etc.), the Disney execs instead did what you just did in your spiel above - attacked the fans accusing them of sexism and bigotry because these cis white males can’t accept that the lead character is female.   HELLO... LEIA IS ABOUT AS ICONIC FEMALE AS YOU CAN GET and the fandom loves her with a passion!

That’s where the toxic SJW comes in... when Kathleen Kennedy and her staff goes to comic-con and wears “The Force is Female” shirts and gets rejected by the fandom it is not because the fandom is anti-female - it’s because the head honcho of Star Wars can’t be bothered to understand the Force.

This is not about diversity.This is about toxic SJWs invading the Star Wars universe.

Kelly Marie Tran endured a nauseating amount of online harassment, a lot of it reeking of racism and sexism, for her role in TLJ. So maybe the bigotry from the fandom isn't completely imaginary. Not saying that Kennedy is right to use that as a weapon against legitimate criticism of the films, but her defensiveness isn't based on nothing.

Quote

 

The days of Cowboys vs Indians and White guys vs Black Thugs has been out of style for a long while.  Coming to America and Fresh Prince of Bel-Air were waaaaay back in the 80’s!  To not notice the amount of iconic black movies is pretty bad.

Not saying they don't exist, just not in the superhero genre. Not to the extent that Black Panther went, anyway. They didn't just build a movie around a black hero like Catwoman and Blade did, they built an entire culture around him, a culture of warriors and hero(ine)s. To the best of my knowledge, no other superhero movie has even come close to integrating a black culture into the film. That's what set Black Panther apart. 

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I love Idris Elba.  James Bond doesn’t need Elba.  That’s an insult to Elba.  Elba is too awesome to play a role like a little kid wearing mommy’s shoes - not written for him.   Elba deserves his own franchise, his own iconic character that fits him.  He has the perfect grace and elegance to play Drizzt.  That’s one black character that needs a movie franchise.

That Bond isn't good enough for Elba is a very fair argument to make, but isn't that the whole point of re-casting? They get to refresh the character with a new actor, like the Joker. I always found him cartoonish and awkward in live-action films..... until Heath Ledger got the role (and I wasn't a huge fan of Ledger prior to Dark Knight). Maybe Elba can do the same with Bond. I've never been a big Bond fan, but casting him in that role could change that, or at the very least persuade me to revisit the franchise. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by Godless

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, JamesZA said:

My 2c.

I can't stand by and watch Black Panther slandered like this. I thought it was pretty epic as Marvel movies go. I thought Killmonger was certainly one of the more interesting villains that Marvel has produced so far.

Why would there need to be an SJW spin on this though? Black Panther has been in Marvel comics since forever, and it makes sense that the majority of the cast would be black since... well.. Africa? So why single it out?

It's not an SJW move, it's just a good action movie.

It becomes a SJW movie based on the SJW's response to it and the fact that it was pumped up beyond what it was simply because it was assigned a level of "importance" by not only the SJW crowd, but others who are being taken in by the SJW nonsense.

All that aside, it was a fine movie. In the grand scheme of action movies, you're right. It was well made and pretty good. For a Marvel movie it was a weaker entry though...not the best they've ever made like the reviews, etc. seem to imply. The point isn't to slander it, but simply point out how a trends.

[Backroads]

10 hours ago, Godless said:

James Bond - Word on the street is that Idris Elba is the frontrunner to be the next 007. To me, the story is less about Bond being black and more about IDRIS FREAKING ELBA being Bond. He doesn't need that role, that role needs him. If it happens, it might be the highest-grossing Bond movie ever. Because Elba is an absolute beast, but he's also a gentleman. If the fact that he's black distracts you from the fact that he may be more perfect for the role than anyone else who's ever played it, then maybe you should reevaluate your priorities. 

No argument here. He'd be an awesome James Bond even if he were polka-dotted.

[Just_A_Guy]

18 minutes ago, Backroads said:

No argument here. He'd be an awesome James Bond even if he were polka-dotted.

What do you have against polka-dotted folk?  

[anatess2]

3 hours ago, JamesZA said:

My 2c.

I can't stand by and watch Black Panther slandered like this. I thought it was pretty epic as Marvel movies go. I thought Killmonger was certainly one of the more interesting villains that Marvel has produced so far.

Why would there need to be an SJW spin on this though? Black Panther has been in Marvel comics since forever, and it makes sense that the majority of the cast would be black since... well.. Africa? So why single it out?

It's not an SJW move, it's just a good action movie.

Like my big spiel on Star Wars before your post, the Black Panther movie is not what made it toxic-SJW.  It's the promotion of the movie and the way the promoters treated the MCU fans who criticized it that made it toxic-SJW.  They even went so far as to say that if you give it a non-perfect score on Rotten Tomatoes, you're racist.  This started waaaaay before the movie was released.  They released the first trailer and the MCU fandom critiqued it - and the promoters went REEEEE and called everyone who gave it a mixed critique racists.

Edited September 26, 2018 by anatess2

[anatess2]

@Godless, here's that YouTube video on Hayden.  Hayden went on an Anakin/Darth Vader immersion including EU material to prepare for the role.  The content creator of this video stating Hayden is Anakin and Anakin is Hayden is spot on.

 

 

[The Folk Prophet]

Now that I've got a few I'll respond to a few other godless points:

12 hours ago, Godless said:

casting characters that *gasp* fall outside of traditional societal norms

You mean writing characters. Or at least you should mean that.

12 hours ago, Godless said:

News flash: your niece is probably going to meet an actual gay person/couple one day, if she hasn't already. She'll probably meet several throughout her lifetime. Why pretend that they don't exist? Why expect Hollywood to pretend they don't exist

There's pretending they don't exist...and then there's intentionally injecting them as a statement. Either way, no...I don't want my children exposed to "alternative" sex lifestyles just because it exists.

12 hours ago, Godless said:

If making a cast ethnically and otherwise diverse is "SJWism" then maybe you need to spend more time outside of your bubble.

The new Star Wars movies are SO obviously intentionally diverse. Black guy. Check. Asian. Check. Strong female. Check. Check. Check. Check. Bumbling white guy. Check. Latino check. It becomes so obviously a checklist that it doesn't play as realistic. There are other movies with plenty of diversity that don't bother me because it isn't an intentional political statement. Secondly, Black Panther isn't exactly "diverse". So a claim that the overall concern is some kind of problem with diversity doesn't hold much water.

12 hours ago, Godless said:

(you know, like the society that these movies are supposed to portray)

You mean the society that used to be primarily Caucasian but became magically diverse somehow. If they were actually portraying the society George Lucas created they would have kept it like the society George Lucas created. They're not doing that any more than they're trying to portray the Ghostbusters then they change them to female. The prime example of this lie is the musical Hamilton. They have no interest in portraying society as it was. They are interested in their SJW causes.

12 hours ago, Godless said:

You don't need to morally approve of all lifestyles, but you should at least acknowledge that those lifestyles are well-established in our society and that it would be silly for filmmakers to ignore that.

Nonsense. Hollywood can make all the gay movies they want and I can choose not to watch them. When they purposefully inject gay characters into "family friendly" and "kid" movies they're making political statements and making conscious efforts to influence society with their leftist garbage. That is plain at this point.

12 hours ago, Godless said:

Let's face it, SW characters have been horribly written and developed since before I was born.

I don't know when you were born. But by any reasonable standard The Empire Strikes Back was a solid, well written, well acted, well developed movie with strong characters. But even if that isn't true...even if the majority disagreed...it's entirely irrelevant. Are you trying to make the point that because SW movies in the past haven't been good we should be happy with new ones not being good as well?

12 hours ago, Godless said:

Episode VII was pretty solid.

Meh.

12 hours ago, Godless said:

Rogue One is the best film in the franchise.

Of the new ones, perhaps. Of the franchise? No.

12 hours ago, Godless said:

Solo was very enjoyable, and I feel like its lackluster performance at the box office was undeserved.

Agreed. Except, of course, well deserved as a statement to Disney to fix their crap. They are perfectly capable of making phenomenal movies again and again as they have proven with Marvel. They are perfectly capable of doing the same with SW. Their priorities are askew.

I don't believe the only problems with SW is SJWism. Not by a long shot. That was simply the theme of this post. They don't understand their own property. They blame the fans for wanting what they want instead of listening. They inject their own vision for Star Wars instead of listening to the customer -- a pattern already shown to fail a la George Lucas. They're way too heavy handed with things (Solo being the exception...but that failed for other reasons). They recycle concepts from the original trilogy, but they're recycling the wrong things (mostly...not always). But mostly, they're trying to make political points instead of writing great adventure stories. They're more interested in showing us how women rule and men suck than they are in writing compelling, likable people.

12 hours ago, Godless said:

have little to do with casting

Once again...writing. I'm not commenting on casting. It's the characters they write that are the problem. It's their motivation for why they write those characters the way they do that is a large part of the problem. My only concern with casting is good characters. I don't care about the color of their skin. I only care about the points being made and the quality of the film. Skin color only becomes an issue when it's made an issue by SJWism. If they just cast whoever fit the bill acting/character-wise and left skin color out of it then skin color wouldn't be an issue -- except for the SJWers who MUST have ethnic diversity. Honestly, I wouldn't even care about that if their top priority was writing and developing quality movies instead of politics. Black Panther is a great example. I thought the black/African culture was a great idea. I was looking forward to it. But the response to the quality of the movie ended up being more about the fact that it was a black cast than it did the actual quality of the movie. And the writing of the culture prioritized culture above reason and sense. The only tech they had that made any sense was BP's suit. The rest -- culture came first and then tech. Bull! And a civilized society that's, supposedly, more civilized, more advanced, and just living on a higher plane than the rest of the world has death matches to choose who they'll cowtow too? Why?! Well, because CULTURE, obviously. Culture has "value"....never mind if whatever given thing within any given culture is stupid and corrupt and nonsensical.

12 hours ago, Godless said:

The fact that it has SJW casting (whatever that means)

I'm not sure what it means. You made that up yourself. My complaint is with the writing. The theories. The principles. The attitudes. The culture. The morality. I don't know for sure what you're talking about with "casting".

12 hours ago, Godless said:

is just an excuse made by people who can't accept that, in general, SW isn't well written.

Except no one made that excuse. The complaint is about the writing.

The complaint is that it SHOULD be well written.

12 hours ago, Godless said:

We forgave it in the original trilogy because we loved the story. Heck, we even came to love the characters, poorly developed as they were.

This is nonsense. The characters in the OT were extremely well written and developed over the course of the movies. We love them because they were written well. They were likable. They were believable. They were compelling. I'm not saying everything was perfect. But this point is nonsense. We didn't "forgive" the OT. They were solid, well made, well developed, interesting, movies -- character, story, effects, filming, etc., etc., etc.  That's not to imply they were some sort of higher art form than they were. They were, at their core, serial adventure stories. But they did not need to be "forgiven".

12 hours ago, Godless said:

What's not okay is blaming the decline of a franchise on diversity.

Unless, of course, diversity has caused the problem. When diversity becomes the priority -- infecting the story, the characters, the motivations, the action, and every other aspect of the show, then yes...it is okay to blame what's at fault.

12 hours ago, Godless said:

Diversity in casting has been long overdue in Hollywood,

This is a longer discussion. It's partially true...and partially not. But I don't have a problem with diversity if it's truly color blind. When you affirmative action it, it sucks. Hollywood may be the least color blind people in the world.

12 hours ago, Godless said:

but unfortunately casting alone doesn't make a great movie.

True dat.

12 hours ago, Godless said:

You can have a film loaded with straight white men and it'll be an absolute flop if it isn't properly written and executed. 

Well if we agree...then what are we arguing about?

12 hours ago, Godless said:

To me, the story is less about Bond being black and more about IDRIS FREAKING ELBA being Bond.

I can agree with this. Unfortunately the SJWs will not see it that way. If this version of JB (assuming it actually casts him) becomes a success, they'll use it to "prove" that black players do better than white, or some nonsense like that, instead of seeing the truth...that great actors are great actors.

I'm okay with a black Bond. Being black doesn't affect anything regarding Bond imo. A female Indiana Jones does affect things.

Edited September 26, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[The Folk Prophet]

10 hours ago, Fether said:

. I will admittedly say that the Star Wars original trilogy was not the best StarWars movies, but I digress, that debate does not belong here.

That debate belongs anywhere! Them's fightin' words!

[Guest MormonGator]

11 hours ago, Godless said:

Personally, I love being able to watch a movie without worrying about whether Hollywood is trying to push some agenda by casting characters that *gasp* fall outside of traditional societal norms

First off, any adult who likes Disney is seriously disturbed. Like a grown man who like My Little Pony. They should be locked up and kept away from society. Disgusting and vile people. 

However, Disney can't win. If they cast a gay person, the right jumps up and down and acts like SJWs. If they cast a traditional princess wanting to find her prince charming, then the left jumps up and down and acts like SJWs. 

[The Folk Prophet]

11 hours ago, Fether said:

batwoman is openly lesbian. No uproar from that yet.

TV gets away with a lot more. For example, Once Upon a Time vs Disney Movies. Very little if any uproar concerning Once Upon a Time.

Edited September 26, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[anatess2]

10 hours ago, Fether said:

There definitely was a Golden Era of movies that were free of political motives. That golden era disnt last as long as some might think. I will admittedly say that the Star Wars original trilogy was not the best StarWars movies, but I digress, that debate does not belong here.

There was never such an era.  Star Wars was a political movie with the cold war backdrop.  Sound of Music, Mary Poppins, Gone With the Wind... all SJW  movies of their time although SJ issues were much different then what it is now.  Today's SJ themes are super dumb, because SJ has no end - it keeps on finding something to complain about even when objectives have been achieved.  So what else is there to complain about when the old SJ issues are now done and dealt with?  Well - how about... we need justice against Masculinity!

My son will debate you on that OT statement.  But I agree with you.  The best Star Wars movie in my opinion is Revenge of the Sith.

10 hours ago, Fether said:

I wonder if the comic geeks will put up with this SJW stuff. The CW make fantastic DC comic tv series but they are riddled with SJW garbage, and the newest one coming out is a batwoman tv show where batwoman is openly lesbian. No uproar from that yet.

Gamers, comic geeks, and Star Wars fans have a giant overlap.  The only reason batwoman is not getting uproar because... the DCCU fans got all beat up by MCU fans.  They're too busy trying to get DC to just straighten their act and reboot the entire cinematic universe to even bother with SJW stuff.

 

 

[The Folk Prophet]

4 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

First off, any adult who likes Disney is seriously disturbed. Like a grown man who like My Little Pony.

Right. That's the same. 

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

However, Disney can't win. If they cast a gay person, the right jumps up and down and acts like SJWs. If they cast a traditional princess wanting to find her prince charming, then the left jumps up and down and acts like SJWs. 

Maybe if they stopped worrying about that and worried, instead, about their box office bottom line.

I doubt anyone is actually itchin' to see more gay characters except far left activist SJWs. They're solving a problem that isn't actually a problem.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

The best Star Wars movie in my opinion is Revenge of the Sith.

Here's my order from best to worst:

A New Hope (sentiment, I'll grant, puts this above Empire for me)

Empire

.....etc.....and then at the bottom:

The Phantom Menace

Revenge of the Sith

[anatess2]

Just now, The Folk Prophet said:

Here's my order from best to worst:

A New Hope (sentiment, I'll grant, puts this above Empire for me)

Empire

.....etc.....and then at the bottom:

The Phantom Menace

Revenge of the Sith

[The Folk Prophet]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

Seriously. That's the only one that's unwatchable for me. Not all of it. I just....don't like it.

[Fether]

38 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

That debate belongs anywhere! Them's fightin' words!

I’m just saying... all the story plot holes and bad character writing found in episodes 1,2,3, 7 and 8 are also found in abundance in 4,5 and 6. Go watch StarWars again and tell me Luke’s character progression wasn’t absolutely confusing and painful to watch (particularly in episode 6). Nostalgia is the only reason  some think those movies are better than the newer ones.

 

18 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

There was never such an era

I was thinking more of the golden age being around the years 1999-2005 and suggesting StarWars was not a part of it. Movies like  the Lord of Lord of the Rings, Matrix, the beginning of Harry Potter, School of Rock, Oceans series, the Mummy, Shrek, 6th sense, Monsters inc., X-men series.

admitedly not all these were fantastic Movies, but from what I remember there was no political agenda in them. They were just pure fiction meant to tell stories.

If ANY of those movies had been made in this decade, they would have been filled to the brim with political agenda

Edited September 26, 2018 by Fether

[The Folk Prophet]

6 minutes ago, Fether said:

Go watch StarWars

No need. I've seen it plenty I think.

6 minutes ago, Fether said:

and tell me Luke’s character progression wasn’t absolutely confusing and painful to watch

Luke's character progression wasn't absolutely confusing and painful to watch.

7 minutes ago, Fether said:

Nostalgia is the only reason  some think those movies are better than the newer ones.

I disagree. We can agree to disagree.

[Fether]

13 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Luke's character progression wasn't absolutely confusing and painful to watch.

It totally is! Everything was great up until episode 6. From the very beginning of episode 6, they portrayed him as a bad A master Jedi that walks around slowly with purpose and maturity whereas only an episode earlier he was an emotional farm boy that bore the skywalker name well. Then we see this strange wrestle with the dark side when he was with the emperor that came out of nowhere and had no explanation. If I were to write a story today about a farm boy who learns to be a Jedi, spends a few days lifting rocks, gets his hand cut off, then all of a sudden takes on the persona of the greatest Jedi in existence, that story would never be published.

Im not saying it is a bad movie, I only argue that every flaw in the prequels and the new movies have a mirror image in the OT

[anatess2]

3 hours ago, Godless said:

Kelly Marie Tran endured a nauseating amount of online harassment, a lot of it reeking of racism and sexism, for her role in TLJ. So maybe the bigotry from the fandom isn't completely imaginary. Not saying that Kennedy is right to use that as a weapon against legitimate criticism of the films, but her defensiveness isn't based on nothing.

Perfect mouthpiece for Disney.  It's like you just copy/paste their SJW bullcrap. 

Kelly Tran got the same treatment as Jack Lloyd, Hayden Christensen, Jarjar Binks (although Binks doesn't have a Social Media account).  Calling it racism and sexism is... exactly the problem with Disney.  Were there sexist racist Tran trolls?  Of course!  Welcome to the Internet!  But to say that Tran got especially harassed because of sexists and racists is the EXACT problem with Disney/Star Wars and Ghostbusters and Black Panther, etc. etc. etc. that people are sick of.  Rose Tico was a  BAD CHARACTER.  She held zero purpose for that movie except for a stand-in for diversity and SJW Peta-type propaganda.  JJ Abrams set up the Fin/Rey relationship and Johnson went... nah... we need something to do for Tico... so he completely just ignored that set-up and plugged Tico there for no reason.  So what does Disney do?  CALL ALL OF THEM RACISTS.  And, you copy pasta.

And by the way, Tran never said anything about sexism and racism being the cause for her hiatus.  She simply said she needed a break from social media.  Everybody does.  Even the prophet told our youth to take a break from social media for at least a week.  And Disney made that into - the racists/sexists harassed her so bad she had to leave social media!  THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM.

 

3 hours ago, Godless said:

That Bond isn't good enough for Elba is a very fair argument to make, but isn't that the whole point of re-casting? They get to refresh the character with a new actor, like the Joker. I always found him cartoonish and awkward in live-action films..... until Heath Ledger got the role (and I wasn't a huge fan of Ledger prior to Dark Knight). Maybe Elba can do the same with Bond. I've never been a big Bond fan, but casting him in that role could change that, or at the very least persuade me to revisit the franchise. 

Yeah, that would be fine if they refresh the character.  But that's not what they're doing as rumored.  They chose Elba specifically because he's black.  "It's time for a Black Bond" is the theme.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Godless]

@The Folk Prophet I don't have time for a proper response, but I want to say a few quick things.

1. Re: gays in Disney movies, I think it's only an issue when people make it one. That is to say, I think Beauty and the Beast could have done without the "Hey everyone, look how woke we are" prelude to the release and just let it play out. I feel like pushback from the right on these things is stronger when the left makes a big deal about it. You can have a gay character without turning it into a political statement, and I think Lafou would have served that purpose if he hadn't been hyped beforehand. 

2. I think we're more in agreement on SW than I previously thought. Not 100%, but that's okay. Thank you for going more in depth on your viewpoint. 

3. Bond - You're absolutely right, the left will use Elba's success to generalize about such casting decisions rather than give Elba the credit for being generally amazing. That's unfortunate, but it doesn't keep me from wanting to see him in the role. To the best of my knowledge (I could be wrong) he is the only black actor being considered. 

[The Folk Prophet]

17 minutes ago, Fether said:

It totally is! Everything was great up until episode 6. From the very beginning of episode 6, they portrayed him as a bad A master Jedi that walks around slowly with purpose and maturity whereas only an episode earlier he was an emotional farm boy that bore the skywalker name well. Then we see this strange wrestle with the dark side when he was with the emperor that came out of nowhere and had no explanation. If I were to write a story today about a farm boy who learns to be a Jedi, spends a few days lifting rocks, gets his hand cut off, then all of a sudden takes on the persona of the greatest Jedi in existence, that story would never be published.

Im not saying it is a bad movie, I only argue that every flaw in the prequels and the new movies have a mirror image in the OT

Luke isn't a "bad A" Jedi just because he decided to wear a black cloak. He barely gets away, barely saves them all, etc. And there is no implication that he's the greatest Jedi in existence.

I'm not saying it's perfect. But confusing and painful? No.

Rey, on the other hand, yes....confusing and painful and nonsensical and what the what?

[The Folk Prophet]

4 minutes ago, Godless said:

1. Re: gays in Disney movies, I think it's only an issue when people make it one. That is to say, I think Beauty and the Beast could have done without the "Hey everyone, look how woke we are" prelude to the release and just let it play out. I feel like pushback from the right on these things is stronger when the left makes a big deal about it. You can have a gay character without turning it into a political statement, and I think Lafou would have served that purpose if he hadn't been hyped beforehand. 

We are unlikely to agree on this one I think.

[Guest Godless]

3 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

We are unlikely to agree on this one I think.

I figured as much.

[Guest MormonGator]

@NeuroTypical-I'm totally kidding. My wife and I have annual passes to Disney World and when it's not baseball season we go weekly. When it is baseball season, we go 2-3 times a month. I even have a Mickey Mouse tattoo on my leg. So yeah, we're hardcore Disney fans.  

[Fether]

9 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Rey, on the other hand, yes....confusing and painful and nonsensical and what the what?

Please explain