Was jesus married


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On 9/29/2018 at 4:03 AM, anatess2 said:

Jersey Boy, Jesus could not have created the earth unless He was already God.  He doesn't need to obtain the fulness of celestial glory because HE ALREADY DID SO.

This:

(New Testament | Luke 2:52)
52  And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.


seems an unlikely outcome for one who was already a perfected God.

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1 hour ago, Suzie said:

Did the Church proclaim as doctrine that Jesus or Paul or whomever was married?

As Far as I know, the church has NO official stance on this.  There have been many who have commented on it in the past, but as far as officially from the Church itself, I do not think this is considered doctrine.

I tend to side with the idea that evidence would suggest at least Paul was married at some point (and most likely a widower) considering his position as Saul and what he was a part of.  Common Sense would say he had to have been married at some point, but as Paul he also makes an inference that he is at the time single.

There are many arguments of the Lord being married and evidence can be quite convincing.  There are several Church Leaders who also felt this way, but I think these are all their opinion on the matter rather than doctrine (as far as I know).

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3 hours ago, Suzie said:

Did the Church proclaim as doctrine that Jesus or Paul or whomever was married?

My take on your question is quite simple: If Christ was not sealed to an eternal companion prior to his glorious resurrection, but if he was was nonetheless exalted to the fulness of eternal glory without obeying the law of celestial marriage, it means he was exalted to eternal glory while in violation of his own firmly decreed law.

The only way Christ could have obtained the fulness of eternal glory without first obeying his own law of eternal marriage is if that law applies to the rest of us but for some strange reason doesn’t apply to him, a state of affairs I believe is highly unlikely. Read the law yourself and remember it’s Christ himself who is speaking. Ask yourself if it makes sense that Christ was exalted to the fulness of eternal glory without having to obey the law that he said is essential in order for men and women to obtain the fulness of eternal glory?

19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the bnew and everlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory. (D&C 132)

Do you believe Christ was exalted without having to obey his own law of eternal marriage?

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Of course Jesus was married.  He probably had kids too.   How else would he suffer all of the pains and sorrow of this world?

Just kidding.  I love my wife and kids. 🙂

Edited by Scott
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7 hours ago, Traveler said:

For clarification for you and @mikbone Anyone ordained an Elder to the Melchizedek Priesthood has as much power and authority as the President or the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 

This statement is totally incorrect.  

1)  Priesthood Authority is directly relational to the Keys.  All you have to do is a simple google query...

APRIL 2014 | The Keys and Authority of the Priesthood - Dallin H. Oaks

Quote

In the controlling of the exercise of priesthood authority, the function of priesthood keys both enlarges and limits. It enlarges by making it possible for priesthood authority and blessings to be available for all of God’s children. It limits by directing who will be given the authority of the priesthood, who will hold its offices, and how its rights and powers will be conferred. For example, a person who holds the priesthood is not able to confer his office or authority on another unless authorized by one who holds the keys. Without that authorization, the ordination would be invalid. This explains why a priesthood holder—regardless of office—cannot ordain a member of his family or administer the sacrament in his own home without authorization from the one who holds the appropriate keys.

2) Priesthood Power is linked to faith, righteousness, responsibility, intelligence, and experience.  

Matthew 17:21  Power in the priesthood is dependent upon faith.

D&C 121: 34  Power and the rights of the priesthood can only be controlled and handled upon the principles of righteousness.

 

Your argument is akin to saying that you would follow Sir Elton John into battle on a horse with sword and plate.

Men were originally knighted because of their meritorious service and prowess in battle.  Yes Elton John is a Commander of the British Empire and a Knight Bachelor as designated by Elizabeth II.  No doubt Elton John is a Knight, but he has no prowess in battle, he never earned it.

Likewise a man may be ordained an Elder, and He does have the potential to become great...  But his power and authority is dependent upon his faith, righteousness, intelligence, experience and actions.  

 

It is not titles that honor men, but men that honor titles. – Niccolò Machiavelli

Many are called, but few are chosen.  

"Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man."

 

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10 hours ago, anatess2 said:

So you are saying, Jesus is God without having the need to be perfected?  Or you are saying Jesus is perfected without the need for a perfected body... and eternal marriage for that manner..., but he’ll need to get both after he is already God?

Being added to a council is not what makes you God.  Being called to the Presidency of the Church is not what makes you a Prophet.  The Holy Spirit having no body is the same as Jesus becoming mortal.  They put on the material needed to fulfill their specific missions in the plan of our salvation, not that that’s the material they’ve progressed to in their Godhood.

If your definition of perfected means having a glorified physical body, then yes. Jesus was God (and the Holy Ghost is God) without a glorified physical body. To my knowledge, Christians for millennia have presumed that an unembodied God who is spirit is still a being in whom we can have faith. And latter-day revelation has only confirmed that God the Father has a glorified physical body at the time of the earth's creation. It even published a sort of catechism about the attributes needed of God for the saints to exercise faith in Him, and a corporeal nature is not one of them.

Quote

12 From the foregoing testimonies, we learn the following things respecting the character of God.

13 First, That he was God before the world was created, and the same God that he was, after it was created.

14 Secondly, That he is merciful, and gracious, slow to anger, abundant in goodness, and that he was so from everlasting, and will be to everlasting.

15 Thirdly, That he changes not, neither is there variableness with him; but that he is the same from everlasting to everlasting, being the same yesterday to-day and forever; and that his course is one eternal round, without variation.

16 Fourthly, That he is a God of truth and cannot lie.

17 Fifthly, That he is no respecter of persons; but in every nation he that fears God and works righteousness is accepted of him.

18 Sixthly, That he is love.

19 An acquaintance with these attributes in the divine character, is essentially necessary, in order that the faith of any rational being can center in him for life and salvation. 

 

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21 minutes ago, mikbone said:
8 hours ago, Traveler said:

For clarification for you and @mikbone Anyone ordained an Elder to the Melchizedek Priesthood has as much power and authority as the President or the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 

This statement is totally incorrect.  

1)  Priesthood Authority is directly relational to the Keys.  All you have to do is a simple google query...

You need to reread the quote you provided.

"In the controlling of the exercise of priesthood authority, the function of priesthood keys both enlarges and limits."

Priesthood keys are not Priesthood authority. Priesthood keys control the use of Priesthood authority. Traveler's statement is correct.

24 minutes ago, mikbone said:

2) Priesthood Power is linked to faith, righteousness, responsibility, intelligence, and experience.

True, and also irrelevant. Traveler's statement still stands unchallenged. Any elder has as much Priesthood ("Priesthood authority") as the President of the Church.

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Let get to the nitty gritty.

What is Authority?  Can you define it?  

I have listed conference talks and scripture.  I have seen opinions offered but no real evidence to back up your opinions.

 

Authority is the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience.

President Nelson has Authority to make decisions, give order, and enforce obedience for the church.

I have the same authority for my family (as long as I am righteous)

The Bishop has the authority to guide my ward.

Priesthood Authority is linked to the Keys.

You need to re-read the entire conference talk.

 

Sidney Rigdon attempted to anoint himself with the priesthood so that he could lay claim to the church leadership.

He was excommunicated.  He did not have the keys.  The Quorum of the twelve had the keys to excommunicate Brother Rigdon. 

Edited by mikbone
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1 minute ago, mikbone said:

I have listed conference talks and scripture.

Oh. Is that what determines truth? Okay. I list President Nelson's General Conference addresses, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the preamble to the Constitution of the United States of America.

Listing "conference talks and scriptures" that clearly do not say what you pretend they say count for exactly nothing. In fact, as I demonstrated, your General Conference quote said rather the opposite of what you wanted to claim.

You would do well to review Elder McConkie's classic talk from 1975.

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5 minutes ago, Vort said:

Oh. Is that what determines truth? Okay. I list President Nelson's General Conference addresses, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the preamble to the Constitution of the United States of America.

Listing "conference talks and scriptures" that clearly do not say what you pretend they say count for exactly nothing. In fact, as I demonstrated, your General Conference quote said rather the opposite of what you wanted to claim.

You would do well to review Elder McConkie's classic talk from 1975.

Scripture and conference talks do have more substance than unsupported opinion

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11 minutes ago, mikbone said:

So you claim to have the same authority as President Nelson?

Indeed I do. Exactly the same Priesthood authority. Though I will freely admit that President Nelson seems obviously to have a great deal more power in the Priesthood than I do, due to his personal righteousness and understanding of principles of Priesthood power. And he holds the keys of the kingdom.

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3 minutes ago, Vort said:

Indeed I do. Exactly the same Priesthood authority. Though I will freely admit that President Nelson seems obviously to have a great deal more power in the Priesthood than I do, due to his personal righteousness and understanding of principles of Priesthood power. And he holds the keys of the kingdom.

/facepalm

You do NOT have the same authority.  You have the same priesthood.  

And there is no seems about it.

His power and authority are vastly greater than yours, mine and Traveler's combined

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31 minutes ago, mikbone said:

/facepalm

You do NOT have the same authority.  You have the same priesthood.  

And there is no seems about it.

His power and authority are vastly greater than yours, mine and Traveler's combined

Well, then. I guess your word establishes truth. Nice to have that solved.

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38 minutes ago, mikbone said:

/facepalm

You do NOT have the same authority.  You have the same priesthood.  

And there is no seems about it.

His power and authority are vastly greater than yours, mine and Traveler's combined

@Vort and I have our differences but in this he and Traveler are correct. We have the same authority. It has nothing to do with pride. His power is definitely different than ours (as this deals with ones faith and obedience and their closeness to the Father's will). His authority is the same unless of course you think there are levels of authority within the Melchizedek priesthood. If so, please explain from scripture the different levels.

A chief of police carries the same authority as any other fellow officer. It isn't prideful for a police officer to say he holds the same authority as the chief of police. They share the same authority. What they have been authorized to perform in that authority may be different, as the chief of police will have specific duties within the same authority.

1) "As priesthood bearers, we hold the same authority that God gave to His servants in the past." (Source)

2) "The same authority that [Joseph Smith] had has been conferred upon your sons, and they will be required by our Father in heaven to minister in the ordinances of the Gospel. The responsibility that came to Joseph Smith has not been lost by his departure, it has fallen upon other shoulders. Our Father in heaven has raised up from time to time those who have had the authority to speak in His name, to administer in the ordinances of the Gospel, and to bless the children of men. They have shared that honor with you and with your children. (Source)

3) "Within two weeks following John the Baptist’s visit, Peter, James, and John did appear to Joseph and Oliver and did confer upon them the Melchizedek Priesthood, which was the same authority the Apostles held anciently." (Source) Of note, notice it specifies the Melchizedek priesthood and "same authority."

4) "We went through several steps of having regional representatives and area representatives and so on, and now we have Area Seventies,” President Packer said, responding to a question from Elder Rasband. “My statement on that is 'a Seventy is a Seventy is a Seventy.' An Area Seventy has the same authority, but it is proscribed by area, and the General Authority Seventies do not have that limitation. But an Area Seventy holds [the Melchizedek] Priesthood and has all the authority that you do as the Senior President of the Seventy." (Source)

5) "These brethren whom you have just sustained as members of the First Quorum of the Seventy will hold the same authority as Assistants to the Twelve." (Source)

6) "When someone has been anointed by the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood, the anointing is sealed by that same authority. To seal something means to affirm it, to make it binding for its intended purpose. When elders anoint a sick person and seal the anointing, they open the windows of heaven for the Lord to pour forth the blessing He wills for the person afflicted." (Source)

7) "Although we did not share that glorious event, when we are ordained to the Aaronic Priesthood we receive the same authority and powers that John the Baptist conferred upon Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery." (Source) Yes, a 16 year old priest held the same authority as John the Baptist. The power they manifest in that authority is what is dependent on our worthiness and faith.

Your statements appear to be confusing power (righteousness, faith, and obedience ) with authority (which is the same authority "Melchizedek") and within that authority (the same authority) individuals are authorized to perform certain functions (keys) that others are not. The authority is the Melchizedek priesthood. Unless you know of a different priesthood that Christ holds (and if Christ holds a different priesthood then we truly do not have the same authority).

What you are referring to is "power" and none of us hold the same power. The closest person to come to such -- that we know of -- would be Nephi in the Book of Mormon. I would assume though Enoch being translated and his people, they probably came pretty close also.

The "/facepalm" is a sad irony.

 

Edited by Anddenex
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9 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

@Vort and I have our differences but in this he and Traveler are correct. We have the same authority. It has nothing to do with pride. His power is definitely different than ours (as this deals with ones faith and obedience and their closeness to the Father's will). His authority is the same unless of course you think there are levels of authority within the Melchizedek priesthood. If so, please explain from scripture the different levels.

From Dallin H. Oaks.  Attorney and First Councilor of the presidency  April 14, Conference

Quote

I come now to the subject of priesthood authority. I begin with the three principles just discussed: (1) priesthood is the power of God delegated to man to act for the salvation of the human family, (2) priesthood authority is governed by priesthood holders who hold priesthood keys, and (3) since the scriptures state that “all other authorities [and] offices in the church are appendages to this [Melchizedek] priesthood” (D&C 107:5), all that is done under the direction of those priesthood keys is done with priesthood authority.

We have the same priesthood.

Authority is governed by the keys.

Power is dependent upon righteousness, faith, obedience, etc.

 

The keys of the priesthood are very important.  If you don't understand the keys of the priesthood, you don't understand the priesthood.

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Without the consent of your bishop you cannot give your child a name and a blessing, baptize, confirm, confer or ordain the priesthood. You cannot perform temple sealings without the keys.  You cannot even bless the sacrament at home for your own family without the consent of your bishop.

Try it I dare you.

Edited by mikbone
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