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Was jesus married

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Agreed.

But, I still posit that baptism is a necessary ordinance for salvation, eternal marriage is not, hence it was not necessary to restore that scripture if Jesus did marry.

Remember, every person that inhabited a tabernacle of flesh will receive four ordinances which are saving ordinances: baptism, confirmation, endowment (includes initiatories), and sealings. All of these are done for everyone, and they are saving ordinances.

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1 minute ago, Anddenex said:

Remember, every person that inhabited a tabernacle of flesh will receive four ordinances which are saving ordinances: baptism, confirmation, endowment (includes initiatories), and sealings. All of these are done for everyone, and they are saving ordinances.

So how do you explain Jesus getting baptized and confirmed but not sealed?

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Just now, anatess2 said:

So how do you explain Jesus getting baptized and confirmed but not sealed?

How do you know he wasn't sealed? As these are all saving ordinances whether in this life or the next (like with all work for the dead) Christ will have to be sealed, otherwise he is commanding us to do something he wouldn't do and that isn't the God who told us to follow Him.

In all of this, as these are saving ordinances, the likelihood of Christ being sealed is more likely than him not being sealed.

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1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

Remember, every person that inhabited a tabernacle of flesh will receive four ordinances which are saving ordinances: baptism, confirmation, endowment (includes initiatories), and sealings. All of these are done for everyone, and they are saving ordinances.

Children who die before reaching the age of accountability and adults who aren’t accountable (developmentally delayed) don’t receive any of those ordinances yet inherit the Celestial Kingdom.

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About Jesus being the bridegroom at Cana …those who believe Jesus was married point out that Jesus was summoned to the wedding, as a bridegroom would have been at that time. However, wedding guests were also summoned or invited to the wedding feast.

We know it was the responsibility of the bridegroom to supply the wine for the wedding; so the argument assumes the bridegroom must indeed have been Jesus. However, Mary approached him in extremis AFTER the initial supply of wine finished.  It seems clear to me that the real bridegroom provided the initial wine, miscalculated how much wine was needed (or the guests got a little too happy with the wine!) and then Mary tried to get Jesus to perform a miracle to save the day.

 If we pay close attention to the scripture, it clearly states “Jesus was also INVITED to the wedding”, “when the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to him: THEY have no wine”. She didn’t say “WE”. The reaction of Jesus was priceless; he seemed annoyed at his mother’s request. Eventually, he complies but I just cannot imagine that he won’t notice that wine ran out at his own wedding, knowing it was his responsibility ( not to mention his moody reaction at the happiest day of his life. ;) )

 I am not entirely convinced that he was married but also I am not entirely convinced that he was single.  Clement of Alexandria wrote in the second century that all of the apostles were married, and Eusebius includes Paul among them.

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1 hour ago, let’s roll said:

Children who die before reaching the age of accountability and adults who aren’t accountable (developmentally delayed) don’t receive any of those ordinances yet inherit the Celestial Kingdom.

At least while they are young. These spirits will become of age at some point, and I would assume (yes I know my thoughts and opinion) that they will also receive these ordinances through proxy. They will have to, as marriages and sealings aren't performed in the afterlife, and it would not be just for God to remove this from them because they died before the age of accountability.

Developmentally delayed children have received baptism, confirmation, and even endowment if through counsel with bishop and stake president.

Also to point out, our Savior was of the age of accountability.

Edited by Anddenex

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2 hours ago, Anddenex said:

At least while they are young. These spirits will become of age at some point, and I would assume (yes I know my thoughts and opinion) that they will also receive these ordinances through proxy. They will have to, as marriages and sealings aren't performed in the afterlife, and it would not be just for God to remove this from them because they died before the age of accountability.

Developmentally delayed children have received baptism, confirmation, and even endowment if through counsel with bishop and stake president.

Also to point out, our Savior was of the age of accountability.

 That’s certainly a plausible theory but hardly a certain one. So much of what applies to us here in mortality does not apply to them. Certainly all the warnings in the scriptures that this life is the time for us to work out our salvation don’t apply to them. And the them are many.  About 20 billion of our brothers and sisters qualified for the celestial kingdom in our pre-mortal life. We’re not certain how  but we are certain that they did.  So I wouldn’t be sure that the path set out for us who are working out our salvation in mortality automatically applies to those who had already done so before they came here.

Edited by let’s roll
Sense

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23 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

There is no real evidence one way or the other.  There is lots of speculation, however. I've yet to hear a theory that holds up well to scrutiny.

Unless the laws and ordinances of the gospel don’t apply to him — something highly unlikely in light of the fact that Jesus needed to be baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost in order to fulfill all righteous — Christ would have had to have been eternally married to at least one woman prior to his death and resurrection in order to receive the fulness of celestial glory.  Remember, one cannot receive the ordinance of eternal marriage after the resurrection because the eternal sealings of husband’s and wives can only take place in mortality — there is no marrying and giving in marriage after the resurrection.  Therefore logic and reason dictates Christ would have had to have been eternally married to at least one woman prior to his resurrection. The only possible exception would be if the immutable laws and ordinances of the gospel don’t pertain to him.

Edited by Jersey Boy

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43 minutes ago, Jersey Boy said:

Unless the laws and ordinances of the gospel don’t apply to him — something highly unlikely in light of the fact that Jesus needed to be baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost inorder to fulfill all righteous — Christ would have had to have been eternally married to at least one woman prior to his death and resurrection in order to receive the fulness of celestial glory.  Remember, one cannot receive the ordinance of eternal marriage after the resurrection because the eternal sealings of husband’s and wives can only take place in mortality — there is no marrying and giving in marriage after the resurrection.  Therefore logic and reason dictates Christ would have had to have been eternally married to at least one woman prior to his resurrection. The only possible exception would be if the immutable laws and ordinances of the gospel don’t pertain to him.

Then again, you're talking about the God-equivalent who literally makes the rules. 

Not to mention that there are billions of human lives that passed before eternal marriage, or even baptism, were not even conceptualized. Billions for whom no records exist. To assume that all humans who ever lived must experience all ordinances as we understand them in the modern church is objectively indefensible.

Again, not saying it's wrong, but there is insufficient evidence available to claim that it must be true.

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16 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Agreed.

But, I still posit that baptism is a necessary ordinance for salvation, eternal marriage is not, hence it was not necessary to restore that scripture if Jesus did marry.

Some of the authorities say that Jesus was married.
nobody said that it was not him
The answer does not come from the logic, but the inspection of the writing

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13 hours ago, let’s roll said:

Children who die before reaching the age of accountability and adults who aren’t accountable (developmentally delayed) don’t receive any of those ordinances yet inherit the Celestial Kingdom.

they go back unchecked as they came. I think they are tested in the thousand-year rich. I consider the test necessary. why else earth life.

Edited by goor_de

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11 hours ago, Suzie said:

and then Mary tried to get Jesus to perform a miracle to save the day.

 

 

 

That was his first sign that Jesus did was his first miracle.:excl:
Maria could not know that
Maria was asking for a miracle?:confused:

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There's not sufficient evidence to say. History does indicate a man that age and unmarried would normally be shunned. My understanding is that it would have really been a big deal for him to have been single. Which then causes the question would this have not been brought when his enemies sought to discredit him. We do know they're are writings that were rejected as scripture, that say he was. There's no answer but I look forward to knowing. It makes sense he would have to endure this. LOL..

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50 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

Then again, you're talking about the God-equivalent who literally makes the rules. 

Not to mention that there are billions of human lives that passed before eternal marriage, or even baptism, were not even conceptualized. Billions for whom no records exist. To assume that all humans who ever lived must experience all ordinances as we understand them in the modern church is objectively indefensible.

Again, not saying it's wrong, but there is insufficient evidence available to claim that it must be true.

Are you a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Larrer-Day Saints? I ask because if you are you seem to have a real hole in your understanding how the plan of salvation works. In the event you are a member of the Church, I encourage you to read, ponder and digest Doctrine and Covenants 138 so that you will be able to come to understand that when it comes to the Gospel no one who ever lived will remain ignorant of or left out of the blessings of the gospel. It all has to do with the unique Latter-Day Saint doctrine of salvation of the dead.

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45 minutes ago, Jersey Boy said:

Are you a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Larrer-Day Saints? I ask because if you are you seem to have a real hole in your understanding how the plan of salvation works. In the event you are a member of the Church, I encourage you to read, ponder and digest Doctrine and Covenants 138 so that you will be able to come to understand that when it comes to the Gospel no one who ever lived will remain ignorant of or left out of the blessings of the gospel. It all has to do with the unique Latter-Day Saint doctrine of salvation of the dead.

Now that's a clever response. Let me get this straight, 

My unwillingness to questionably accept the unsubstantiable bit of trivia posited by someone on the Internet means I am either not Mormon, or insufficiently reflective with my faith.

Let me reiterate my stance: with regard to the question of whether Jesus of Nazareth was married, we have insufficient evidence to definitively support a claim toward either the affirmative or the negative. Any claims toward a definitive answer require supposition and assumptions that expose the claim to plausible criticisms and scrutiny.

With that in mind, if the only reason I don't accept your conclusion as definitive is because I haven't pondered the same scriptures to the same extrapolations that you have, then I will have to point out that this exactly bolsters my stance.

QED :)

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3 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

we have insufficient evidence to definitively support a claim toward either the affirmative or the negative. Any claims toward a definitive answer require supposition and assumptions that expose the claim to plausible criticisms and scrutiny.

Exactly.  

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1 hour ago, goor_de said:

they go back unchecked as they came. I think they are tested in the thousand-year rich. I consider the test necessary. why else earth life.

 Prophets disagree. It’s a basic tenet of LDS theology.  There is no more testing. They have qualified for the Celestial Kingdom.  Mortality has a purpose for them, to obtain a body.  And as Jesus taught, through them the glory of God is made manifest.

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1 hour ago, goor_de said:

Some of the authorities say that Jesus was married.
nobody said that it was not him
The answer does not come from the logic, but the inspection of the writing

Hi @goor_de!  In LDS faith, we believe that the Bible is the word of God as long as it is translated (interpreted) correctly.  The Bible doesn't tell us Jesus was married during his mortal ministry.  The Bible also doesn't tell us Jesus was not married during his mortal ministry.

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15 hours ago, Anddenex said:

How do you know he wasn't sealed? As these are all saving ordinances whether in this life or the next (like with all work for the dead) Christ will have to be sealed, otherwise he is commanding us to do something he wouldn't do and that isn't the God who told us to follow Him.

In all of this, as these are saving ordinances, the likelihood of Christ being sealed is more likely than him not being sealed.

Christ is ALREADY God before he was born of Mary.  That means he is already sealed before he created the earth.  He doesn't need saving ordinances because He is already God.  He was baptized by John the Baptist even when He doesn't need the saving ordinance (as John stated) to fulfill all righteousness.  If he was also sealed to fulfill all righteousness it will be specifically stated in scripture - especially after it was restored.

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3 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Hi @goor_de!  In LDS faith, we believe that the Bible is the word of God as long as it is translated (interpreted) correctly.  The Bible doesn't tell us Jesus was married during his mortal ministry.  The Bible also doesn't tell us Jesus was not married during his mortal ministry.

sometimes the holy spirit tells you something that is not exactly in the scripture, :)

especially the prophets and apostles

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10 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Christ is ALREADY God before he was born of Mary.  That means he is already sealed before he created the earth.  He doesn't need saving ordinances because He is already God.  He was baptized by John the Baptist even when He doesn't need the saving ordinance (as John stated) to fulfill all righteousness.  If he was also sealed to fulfill all righteousness it will be specifically stated in scripture - especially after it was restored.

15 And Jesus answered and said to him, Let it be now! For it is proper for us to fulfill all righteousness. He let him do that.

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17 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

 They have qualified for the Celestial Kingdom. 

it has no qualification instead of found
There was no qualification
where do you see one

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