Vort Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 The Republicans were about to forge onward and force the vote on Kavanaugh, which they would have won, probably to their electoral detriment and long-term hurt. Instead, Senator Flake insisted on an FBI investigation. I see this as nothing but good for the Repub Party and also for the nation. On the very slim chance that the FBI can support Ford's allegations, the American people (and the Republican Party) are spared seating a jurist guilty of actions that many fair-minded people would agree disqualify him for the position. On the other hand, if the allegations remain completely unsupported, the Repubs can truthfully say that Ford had her day in court (or at least in front of the Senate), that her charges were thoroughly investigated, and that no merit was found in them. And then the Repubs can still keep this incident in their back pocket in their hunt for future payback. Conservatives, even those convinced that Ford's charges are spurious and that the Democraps are subverting our governmental institutions for public theater and political gain, should be relieved (at least secretly) that Flake insisted on an FBI investigation. Hopefully it will work to limit the societal damage that the Democrap Party would otherwise have gleefully inflicted on the nation. Midwest LDS and anatess2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) I agree with you in normal circumstances. But, I have no faith in the FBI right now. The Mueller investigation is an investigation looking for a crime. I don’t expect the Kavanaugh investigation to be any different. So, let’s see how successful Trump has been in draining that FBI swamp. If Comey’s twitter feed is any indication of the partisanship still embedded in that organization, the Repubs is toast and the Repub voters will make them pay which is exactly what the Dems want which is why their mantra, and the reason for them pulling the Ford card at the last minute, is to get that FBI investigation even without corroborating evidence because it’s a win-win for them. Edited September 28, 2018 by anatess2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, Vort said: I see this as nothing but good for the Repub Party and also for the nation If only. In theory...sure. In reality...nope. Won't make a lick of difference. Why? Only a week!? What about these other three accusers we dug up the last day of the week? Limited in scope!? Etc. If those who believe the dems now believe the dems now after the what's gone done...why would they, the reasonable people they are, stop believing them a week from now when they're shouting just as adamantly -- "UNFAIR!!'? anatess2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted September 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 Unlike @anatess2, I don't offer scintillating political commentary. I'm too naive and uninformed to do more than give my general impressions. But if everything truly is just political gamesmanship and honest intent literally means nothing, then we already live in hell. So it doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Vort said: Unlike @anatess2, I don't offer scintillating political commentary. I'm too naive and uninformed to do more than give my general impressions. But if everything truly is just political gamesmanship and honest intent literally means nothing, then we already live in hell. So it doesn't matter. It matters. But that’s dependent on whether you believe a guy, vetted 6 times by the FBI, went from a lifetime of Norman Rockwell to gang rapist in a week. Because, if he’s Norman Rockwell or close to it, then he’s one to help slow, if not stop, the tour in hell. Edited September 28, 2018 by anatess2 The Folk Prophet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted September 28, 2018 Report Share Posted September 28, 2018 I’m in wait-and-see mode. The FBI report will at least give us something in writing from someone other than the GOP that says “we talked to the four other people allegedly at the party and they say the party never happened”. But Dems will still grouse at the abbreviated timetable for the FBI investigation. And I will bet good money (but not much of it) that some FBI flunkie is going to allege that the Trump White House leaned on the FBI to yield a particular result; and that’s going to get added as a topic of interest in the Mueller investigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colirio Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 So... The people who literally make the laws... ...say they want to defer to a law enforcement agency to give them the evidence they already heard? For those who think this is a good idea, by all means, please name ONE SINGLE Democrat that will change their stance after the investigation is concluded. The truth is that this has been a Democrat planned series of delay tactics. Delaying it one more week is going to appease nobody, change nobody's mind, and win nothing further for the Republicans. I hope Flake's acquiescence to his opposition causes a different conservative to take his spot in the next election. mrmarklin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Vort said: The Republicans were about to forge onward and force the vote on Kavanaugh, which they would have won, probably to their electoral detriment and long-term hurt. Instead, Senator Flake insisted on an FBI investigation. I see this as nothing but good for the Repub Party and also for the nation. On the very slim chance that the FBI can support Ford's allegations, the American people (and the Republican Party) are spared seating a jurist guilty of actions that many fair-minded people would agree disqualify him for the position. On the other hand, if the allegations remain completely unsupported, the Repubs can truthfully say that Ford had her day in court (or at least in front of the Senate), that her charges were thoroughly investigated, and that no merit was found in them. And then the Repubs can still keep this incident in their back pocket in their hunt for future payback. Conservatives, even those convinced that Ford's charges are spurious and that the Democraps are subverting our governmental institutions for public theater and political gain, should be relieved (at least secretly) that Flake insisted on an FBI investigation. Hopefully it will work to limit the societal damage that the Democrap Party would otherwise have gleefully inflicted on the nation. I disagree. Nobody's opinions will be changed. Nobody is going to suddenly support him that wasn't before if nothing is found. The same vitriol is going to infect the discussion. All they've done is drag them both through the mud for another week and bring things that much closer to midterm elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 21 minutes ago, Colirio said: So... The people who literally make the laws... ...say they want to defer to a law enforcement agency to give them the evidence they already heard? For those who think this is a good idea, by all means, please name ONE SINGLE Democrat that will change their stance after the investigation is concluded. The truth is that this has been a Democrat planned series of delay tactics. Delaying it one more week is going to appease nobody, change nobody's mind, and win nothing further for the Republicans. I hope Flake's acquiescence to his opposition causes a different conservative to take his spot in the next election. Flake is not up for re-election. He might be gunning to unseat Trump in 2020 but he’ll soon realize the same reason he can’t run for re-election will be the same reason he has no chance in 2020. JohnsonJones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 57 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said: I’m in wait-and-see mode. The FBI report will at least give us something in writing from someone other than the GOP that says “we talked to the four other people allegedly at the party and they say the party never happened”. But Dems will still grouse at the abbreviated timetable for the FBI investigation. And I will bet good money (but not much of it) that some FBI flunkie is going to allege that the Trump White House leaned on the FBI to yield a particular result; and that’s going to get added as a topic of interest in the Mueller investigation. I don’t know what would change between a written statement submitted under penalty of felony and a verbal one when we’re talking about witnesses who simply got dragged into the process. The Folk Prophet, Just_A_Guy and Colirio 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 So, there’s this guy named Chad Benson on the radio that is saying the same thing you’re saying @Vort. But this guy goes and says that the people who called/emailed his show saying that they can’t trust the FBI are all unhinged. What a silly thing for him to say when it wasn’t that long ago that he talked in his show about the baseless FISA warrants that led to the FBI - who did everything in their power to exonerate Clinton - to wiretap Clinton’s opponent. What has changed in the FBI from that time to now??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 14 hours ago, Vort said: honest intent literally means nothing, The road to hell....as they say..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 13 hours ago, anatess2 said: So, there’s this guy named Chad Benson on the radio that is saying the same thing you’re saying @Vort. But this guy goes and says that the people who called/emailed his show saying that they can’t trust the FBI are all unhinged. What a silly thing for him to say when it wasn’t that long ago that he talked in his show about the baseless FISA warrants that led to the FBI - who did everything in their power to exonerate Clinton - to wiretap Clinton’s opponent. What has changed in the FBI from that time to now??? Dragging the FBI into the matter in the current climate is another tactic. By capitulation (which I think they had to...thanks Flake) they're just throwing fuel onto the fire. I think @Vort has a point in that the FBI investigation may well sway the fence sitting Repubs. So it may be a good thing in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colirio Posted September 29, 2018 Report Share Posted September 29, 2018 Flake had this to say: “Obviously. I’ve felt that this delay is as much to help him {Kavanaugh} as us. My hope is that some Democrats will say “Hey, we may not change our vote, but this process was worthy of the institution, and we feel satisfied.” That means something,” he said. “The country needs to hear that.” Flake Defends Delay 1. I don't disagree that such an outcome would be nice. 2. To believe it will happen requires your head to be at least several feet into the sand... The Folk Prophet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pressing Forward Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) Flake is a Rino and reminds me of that Nevada Senator Reid that likes to lie in pubic. Edited October 1, 2018 by Pressing Forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 None of these delay tactics will make a difference if the confirmation vote takes place before the elections. Flake bought them another week. There are still 4 more weeks to Election Day after that. Sometime around Thursday or Friday of this week, start watching for additional delay tactics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 Jeff Flake is beloved by one group of people: Liberals. They aren't voting republican in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 A large portion of the Flake wing of the GOP is based on snobbery and self righteousness. They look down on Trump voters as the dirty working classes and they look down on Trump as immoral. I should know, I also look down on Trump voters and Trump, but I have the self awareness to see the hypocrisy and arrogance of my own side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 53 minutes ago, unixknight said: None of these delay tactics will make a difference if the confirmation vote takes place before the elections. Flake bought them another week. There are still 4 more weeks to Election Day after that. Sometime around Thursday or Friday of this week, start watching for additional delay tactics. This is incorrect. Flake's delay caused Kavanaugh to fail to be seated in the current term of the SCOTUS which started today. The next term will not start until October next year. What are at stake in the very near future: 1.) Trump has unclassified and ordered for public release of the FISA warrant applications un-redacted along with other evidence that is supposed to show FBI and DOJ agents under the direction of the previous administration wiretapping the campaign of the opposition to gain campaign strategy information. 2.) Big Tech collusion into censorship of unwanted political opinions. 3.) Sanctuary cities. (case filed, scheduled for hearing) etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 On 9/29/2018 at 4:10 PM, Colirio said: Flake had this to say: “Obviously. I’ve felt that this delay is as much to help him {Kavanaugh} as us. My hope is that some Democrats will say “Hey, we may not change our vote, but this process was worthy of the institution, and we feel satisfied.” That means something,” he said. “The country needs to hear that.” Flake Defends Delay 1. I don't disagree that such an outcome would be nice. 2. To believe it will happen requires your head to be at least several feet into the sand... DiFi's actions, the Ford vs Kavanaugh hearing, the smear campaign of the media, etc. etc. are already A MOCKERY of the institution. To think that giving them more time to continue the mockery will lead to the process becoming worthy of the institution is WILLFULLY IGNORANT. Flake is not running this November. He couldn't gin up enough voter enthusiasm to even win a primary so he did not put his name in the ballot. There's a reason why his constituents are not voting for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 46 minutes ago, anatess2 said: This is incorrect. Flake's delay caused Kavanaugh to fail to be seated in the current term of the SCOTUS which started today. The next term will not start until October next year. What are at stake in the very near future: 1.) Trump has unclassified and ordered for public release of the FISA warrant applications un-redacted along with other evidence that is supposed to show FBI and DOJ agents under the direction of the previous administration wiretapping the campaign of the opposition to gain campaign strategy information. 2.) Big Tech collusion into censorship of unwanted political opinions. 3.) Sanctuary cities. (case filed, scheduled for hearing) etc. etc. Their main goal is to try to make Republicans lose enough Senate seats that it would then switch to a Democrat majority and become impossible for any candidate Trump names to be confirmed. We would have an 8 person Supreme Court at least until 2021. anatess2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted October 1, 2018 Report Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, unixknight said: Their main goal is to try to make Republicans lose enough Senate seats that it would then switch to a Democrat majority and become impossible for any candidate Trump names to be confirmed. We would have an 8 person Supreme Court at least until 2021. That's one of the reasons. But they are not dumb enough to think that keeping Kavanaugh dependent on a senate confirmation will keep a "blue wave" when the blue wave is dependent on Anti-Trump Republicans staying home. Republicans - anti-trump or not - are united on the issue of a constitutional SCOTUS. So keeping the seat open through November is a Hail Mary. They know they can't stop Kavanaugh from the SCOTUS, the Hail Mary pass is their only chance. But, at least, they get to keep Kavanaugh out long enough to save their bums. Edited October 1, 2018 by anatess2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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