New security measures for church events

[Guest]

Just now, MormonGator said:

@zil? Load the cannons. 
@LadyGator? Load the catapults. 
 @MormonGator? Ready the Bull Terriers. 

[zil]

3 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Those are our last resort.  (Or for when we go boar hunting.)

[Sunday21]

26 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Huh?

No guns! 🇨🇦 Actually lots of hunting rifles.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

No guns! 🇨🇦 Actually lots of hunting rifles.

Huh?  You're going to have to explain CA or expound a bit more than some partial sentences.  I really don't know what you mean.

[zil]

6 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Huh?  You're going to have to explain CA or expound a bit more than some partial sentences.  I really don't know what you mean.

OK, this is my interpretation:

Sunday is saying that the Prophet (on the theory that he is responsible for these policies¹) is Canadian at heart because Canada doesn't allow personal ownership of handguns, only hunting rifles.

¹The problem here is that the firearms policy has been in place for years - since the building was built - so it's not likely President Nelson's idea, regardless of what he thinks of the policy.  As near as I can tell, the changes to policy are (1) we won't store things you never should have brought in the first place, and (2) we're limiting the size of bags you can bring in to "reasonable" (seriously people, leave it at the hotel, in the car, or at home).

[JohnsonJones]

8 minutes ago, zil said:

OK, this is my interpretation:

Sunday is saying that the Prophet (on the theory that he is responsible for these policies¹) is Canadian at heart because Canada doesn't allow personal ownership of handguns, only hunting rifles.

¹The problem here is that the firearms policy has been in place for years - since the building was built - so it's not likely President Nelson's idea, regardless of what he thinks of the policy.  As near as I can tell, the changes to policy are (1) we won't store things you never should have brought in the first place, and (2) we're limiting the size of bags you can bring in to "reasonable" (seriously people, leave it at the hotel, in the car, or at home).

Well, at times I think Monson was truly Canadian in his heart.  He also had a great influence on the council when the Center was being built and he was also the Prophet...so there's that.

[Grunt]

2 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Guns have no place in a religious building. But, just so you feel safer, know that Security officers are armed. If a bad guy started shooting and then other patrons started shooting how would the security and police know who a bad guy is? Also, turning the building into a shooting gallery is hardly a good idea. Leave your guns at home or don't come, those are your choices.

If guns have no place in a religious building, why do we have armed security officers?

[Sunday21]

20 minutes ago, zil said:

OK, this is my interpretation:

Sunday is saying that the Prophet (on the theory that he is responsible for these policies¹) is Canadian at heart because Canada doesn't allow personal ownership of handguns, only hunting rifles.

¹The problem here is that the firearms policy has been in place for years - since the building was built - so it's not likely President Nelson's idea, regardless of what he thinks of the policy.  As near as I can tell, the changes to policy are (1) we won't store things you never should have brought in the first place, and (2) we're limiting the size of bags you can bring in to "reasonable" (seriously people, leave it at the hotel, in the car, or at home).

Actually the closer to the Celestial Kingdom you travel, the more 🇨🇦 you become! 😇

Clearly....previous church policy makers were channeling their inner 🇨🇦!!!!

Edited September 29, 2018 by Sunday21

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, zil said:

OK, this is my interpretation:

Sunday is saying that the Prophet (on the theory that he is responsible for these policies¹) is Canadian at heart because Canada doesn't allow personal ownership of handguns, only hunting rifles.

¹The problem here is that the firearms policy has been in place for years - since the building was built - so it's not likely President Nelson's idea, regardless of what he thinks of the policy.  As near as I can tell, the changes to policy are (1) we won't store things you never should have brought in the first place, and (2) we're limiting the size of bags you can bring in to "reasonable" (seriously people, leave it at the hotel, in the car, or at home).

OK.  Big reveal.  I thought she was referring to California (almost as bad).  So, that helps.

[Sunday21]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

OK.  Big reveal.  I thought she was referring to California (almost as bad).  So, that helps.

Ha ha !

I have just been very aggressive by Canadian standards so they will probably toss me out now! 

[Styln]

Although I am not a member of the LDS, I would like to share a thought; most respectfully of course.

It is with sadness to meditate on some of the replies in this thread. As a Christina in the family of God, focusing on following the teachings of Christ's non-resistance attributes, it is unbearable to imagine myself worshipping God with a gun in hand, or sitting among fellow brothers and sister's in the faith who possess such weapons regardless of the reason. 

My personal rest and peace lay with God in knowing if I am martyred, it would be at the moment of divine dedication to my Lord in heaven as were my forefathers in the Anabaptist movement.

 

Respectfully

Styln

[Fether]

25 minutes ago, Styln said:

My personal rest and peace lay with God in knowing if I am martyred, it would be at the moment of divine dedication to my Lord in heaven as were my forefathers in the Anabaptist movement.

I love your faith, my reasoning for desiring guns to be present is for the safety of my friends and family.

[Sunday21]

48 minutes ago, Styln said:

Although I am not a member of the LDS, I would like to share a thought; most respectfully of course.

It is with sadness to meditate on some of the replies in this thread. As a Christina in the family of God, focusing on following the teachings of Christ's non-resistance attributes, it is unbearable to imagine myself worshipping God with a gun in hand, or sitting among fellow brothers and sister's in the faith who possess such weapons regardless of the reason. 

My personal rest and peace lay with God in knowing if I am martyred, it would be at the moment of divine dedication to my Lord in heaven as were my forefathers in the Anabaptist movement.

 

Respectfully

Styln

Love you! Clearly Canadian! 

[Vort]

55 minutes ago, Styln said:

Although I am not a member of the LDS, I would like to share a thought; most respectfully of course.

It is with sadness to meditate on some of the replies in this thread. As a Christina in the family of God, focusing on following the teachings of Christ's non-resistance attributes, it is unbearable to imagine myself worshipping God with a gun in hand, or sitting among fellow brothers and sister's in the faith who possess such weapons regardless of the reason. 

My personal rest and peace lay with God in knowing if I am martyred, it would be at the moment of divine dedication to my Lord in heaven as were my forefathers in the Anabaptist movement.

It might be worthwhile to know that Joseph Smith, the prophet of the Restoration and mortal founder of our Church, emptied a revolver into the crowd of thugs and murderers after they shot his brother to death and just before they butchered him. Martyrdom doesn't mean dying without a struggle.

8 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Love you! Clearly Canadian! 

I guess Joseph Smith was Clearly American. I hope one day to be counted as worthy as he was, or at least in the same ballpark.

[Maureen]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

OK.  Big reveal.  I thought she was referring to California (almost as bad).  So, that helps.

@Sunday21 shows a Canadian flag and you thought she was referring to California????!!!!

M.

[let’s roll]

1 hour ago, Styln said:

Although I am not a member of the LDS, I would like to share a thought; most respectfully of course.

It is with sadness to meditate on some of the replies in this thread. As a Christina in the family of God, focusing on following the teachings of Christ's non-resistance attributes, it is unbearable to imagine myself worshipping God with a gun in hand, or sitting among fellow brothers and sister's in the faith who possess such weapons regardless of the reason. 

My personal rest and peace lay with God in knowing if I am martyred, it would be at the moment of divine dedication to my Lord in heaven as were my forefathers in the Anabaptist movement.

 

Respectfully

Styln

Beautifully stated, and clearly deeply felt.  I both admire and share your sentiments.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Styln said:

Although I am not a member of the LDS, I would like to share a thought; most respectfully of course.

It is with sadness to meditate on some of the replies in this thread. As a Christina in the family of God, focusing on following the teachings of Christ's non-resistance attributes, it is unbearable to imagine myself worshipping God with a gun in hand, or sitting among fellow brothers and sister's in the faith who possess such weapons regardless of the reason. 

My personal rest and peace lay with God in knowing if I am martyred, it would be at the moment of divine dedication to my Lord in heaven as were my forefathers in the Anabaptist movement.

 

Respectfully

Styln

I totally respect your belief in being a conscientious objector.  But that is not the way of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  In our faith, we have seen first hand what giving up our guns does.  It gets our people slaughtered.  You can call in martyred.  But we call it genocide.  That is what these people wanted to do to us. 

The government of Missouri told them that if they gave up their guns "as a token of good will" then they would be left alone.  We complied and gave up all our guns.  As a result, the ones promising us that we'd be left alone came and raped our women in the most vile manner possible.  They slaughtered our children with a level of butchery that was as violent as the worst horror movies you see today.  And our men were tortured to death.

As a result, one man named John Moses Browning who was trained as a gunsmith (by his gunsmith father) since he was a youth decided that he would do everything he could to make sure that his people would never be left defenseless again.  He devised most of the mechanisms that make modern guns function the way they function today with pin point accuracy.  Such mechanisms are used in military machinery including the canons on battleships.  

The United States government named him as the one man who has contributed most to the defense of this country than any other.

I can appreciate your desire to not be violent.  And if it were left to us, we'd certainly be all for it.  But the Lord has told us:

Quote

46 And they were doing that which they felt was the duty which they owed to their God; for the Lord had said unto them, and also unto their fathers, that: Inasmuch as ye are not guilty of the first offense, neither the second, ye shall not suffer yourselves to be slain by the hands of your enemies.

47 And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed. Therefore for this cause were the Nephites contending with the Lamanites, to defend themselves, and their families, and their lands, their country, and their rights, and their religion.

We do not subscribe to non-resistance in ALL circumstances.  We believe in defending ourselves when we've exhausted all other options.  And we believe it to be in perfect compliance with the teaching that Jesus gave us.

[let’s roll]

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I totally respect your belief in being a conscientious objector.  But that is not the way of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  In our faith, we have seen first hand what giving up our guns does.  It gets our people slaughtered.  You can call in martyred.  But we call it genocide.  That is what these people wanted to do to us. 

The government of Missouri told them that if they gave up their guns "as a token of good will" then they would be left alone.  We complied and gave up all our guns.  As a result, the ones promising us that we'd be left alone came and raped our women in the most vile manner possible.  They slaughtered our children with a level of butchery that was as violent as the worst horror movies you see today.  And our men were tortured to death.

As a result, one man named John Moses Browning who was trained as a gunsmith (by his gunsmith father) since he was a youth decided that he would do everything he could to make sure that his people would never be left defenseless again.  He devised most of the mechanisms that make modern guns function the way they function today with pin point accuracy.  Such mechanisms are used in military machinery including the canons on battleships.  

The United States government named him as the one man who has contributed most to the defense of this country than any other.

I can appreciate your desire to not be violent.  And if it were left to us, we'd certainly be all for it.  But the Lord has told us:

We do not subscribe to non-resistance in ALL circumstances.  We believe in defending ourselves when we've exhausted all other options.  And we believe it to be in perfect compliance with the teaching that Jesus gave us.

I, for one, can’t see a justification for taking a gun into church in either of your examples.

IMHO, trying to make an analogy between the treatment of the Missouri saints and any danger Church members face today in a chapel is melodramatic, at best.

As for the Nephites, they had every reason to follow revelation from God.  Our current direction from God, through his chosen servants is to leave guns at home when we go to Church.

[zil]

28 minutes ago, Maureen said:

@Sunday21 shows a Canadian flag and you thought she was referring to California????!!!!

M.

I didn't see a Canadian flag (though I have seen them before).  I saw "CA" - which in the US is "California" - I knew from Sunday21 it had to be Canada.  I assume Carb saw "CA" as well.

ETA: I've noticed this sometimes - for reasons unknown, graphics (or what I assume are font-graphics) don't show up all the time.

Edited September 29, 2018 by zil

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

I, for one, can’t see a justification for taking a gun into church in either of your examples.

What on earth makes you think he was trying to make any such justification?

3 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

IMHO, trying to make an analogy between the treatment of the Missouri saints and any danger Church members face today in a chapel is melodramatic, at best.

I saw no such analogy. I think you're making that up yourself.

3 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

As for the Nephites, they had every reason to follow revelation from God.  Our current direction from God, through his chosen servants is to leave guns at home when we go to Church.

Pretty sure that Carb's comments were meant for the immediate context of his reply, nothing more. Maybe I'm wrong, but I bet that even if he doesn't like or agree with the policy, Carb leaves his firearm home when he goes to Church.

[let’s roll]

Frankly, Carb’s response to Styln didn’t address the content of her post.   Styln’s post didn’t say anything about being a conscientious objector, only that she would be uncomfortable worshipping surrounded by people carrying guns.  She was on topic, I was on topic, Carb was the only one trying to make it about more than leaving your gun home when you go to Church,

.i guess I was a bit too subtle.

 

[NeuroTypical]

The pavilion of the gospel is big enough to cover both pacifist and warrior.  Folks willing to die before using violence, and folks willing to defend the lives of innocents in ways likely to kill an attacker.  Both get to be who they are, and be good disciples of Christ.  

The pacifists will occasionally be afraid around the warriors, and the warriors will occasionally be disgusted around the pacifists.  Ain't no reason for either reaction, really.  

Y'all are both welcome at my BBQ, as long as you play nice.

Edited September 30, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[Sunday21]

6 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

The pavilion of the gospel is big enough to cover both pacifist and warrior.  Folks willing to die before using violence, and folks willing to defend the lives of innocents in ways likely to kill an attacker.  Both get to be who they are, and be good disciples of Christ.  

The pacifists will occasionally be afraid around the warriors, and the warriors will occasionally be disgusted around the pacifists.  Ain't no reason for either reaction, really.  

Y'all are both welcome at my BBQ, as long as you play nice.

Excellent! I will bring the funeral potatoes! 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, let’s roll said:

I, for one, can’t see a justification for taking a gun into church in either of your examples.

IMHO, trying to make an analogy between the treatment of the Missouri saints and any danger Church members face today in a chapel is melodramatic, at best.

As for the Nephites, they had every reason to follow revelation from God.  Our current direction from God, through his chosen servants is to leave guns at home when we go to Church.

Who said I was?

EDIT:  I just read Vort's reply in my defense.  Yeah, pretty much.

Edited September 30, 2018 by Guest

[mirkwood]

1 hour ago, Sunday21 said:

Excellent! I will bring the funeral potatoes! 

I'll bring my gun.