New security measures for church events


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24 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Just going to put these here:

Me too.  

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"As for this people fostering to themselves that the day has come for them to sell their guns and ammunition to their enemies, and sit down to sleep in peace, they will find themselves deceived and before they know, they will sleep until they are slain. They have got to carry weapons with them, to be ready to send their enemy to hell cross lots , whether they be Lamanites or mobs who may come to take their lives, or destroy their property. We must be prepared that they dare not come to us in a hostile manner without being assured they will meet a vigorous resistance and ten to one they will meet their grave." 
Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, Vol 1, P . 171 - 172, July 31, 1853 

"Not only should we have strong spiritual homes, but we should have strong temporal homes. We should avoid bondage by getting out of debt as soon as we can, pay as we go, and live within our incomes. There is wisdom in having on hand a year's supply of food, clothing, fuel (if possible), and in being preparing to defend our families and our possessions and to take care of ourselves. I believe a man should prepare for the worst while working for the best."
Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 263-264. 

"We all believe that the Lord will fight our battles; but how? Will He do it while we are unconcerned and make no effort whatever for our own safety when an enemy is upon us? If we make no effort to guard our towns, our houses, our cities, our wives and children, will the Lord guard them for us? He will not; but if we pursue the opposite course and strive to help Him to accomplish His designs, then will He fight our battles. We are baptized for the remission of sins; but it would be quite as unreasonable to expect a remission of sins without baptism, as to expect the Lord to fight our battles without our taking every precaution to be prepared to defend ourselves. The Lord requires us to be quite as willing to fight our own battles as to have Him fight them for us. If we are not ready for an enemy when he comes upon us, we have not lived up to the requirements of Him who guides the ship of Zion, or who dictates the affairs of his kingdom."
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, p. 131, August 1-10, 1865. 

"There is one principle which is eternal; it is the duty of all men to protect their lives and the lives of the household, whenever necessity requires, and no power has the right to forbid it, should the last extreme arrive, but I anticipate no such extreme, but caution is the parent of safety."
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six, 1843-44, p. 391.

"Peace be still, bury the hatchet and the sword, the sound of war is dreadful in my ear. [But] Any man who will not fight for his wife and children is a coward and a bastard."
-- Joseph Smith Jr., journal entry, January 29, 1843. Source: "An American Prophet's Record: The Diaries and Journals of Joseph Smith," Salt Lake City, Utah,1989, p. 298

 

 

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11 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

Yeah, you've lost all credibility. 

Not looking for your approval. If the scripture fits, it fits. God tells us to avoid taking up the sword. There are times when it is needed. General Conference and Church are not those times. If people are are doing all they can to live as Saints then God will protect them, unless it is there time. Having been through a mass shooting I can testify that God's hand was there and protected those of us who survived. I have literally felt a hand from beyond the veil hold me to the floor and by doing so I was protected and witnessed the same protection over other people as well. So don't tell me that I have lost credibility because I posted scriptures. Argue if you must, but God's hand is over all His Saints and nothing will happen that is not in his plan and will.

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11 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

So don't tell me that I have lost credibility because I posted scriptures. 

You didn't lose credibility because you posted scriptures.  You lost credibility because you claimed anyone who disagrees with your position has hardened their hearts against Christ.

Cool story though.  Thank you for sharing, and I believe you.  I also have an endless tsunami of events where the spirit did not interject in affairs, and innocent folks died.  Dood - if I could rely on divine intervention in my family's life in all such situations, you'd find me the first in line to get rid of my gun.

Quote

God's hand is over all His Saints and nothing will happen that is not in his plan and will.

Tell me Emmanuel Goldstein, are you so sure God wanted Bert Miller dead back in July?

https://www.lds.org/church/news/outpouring-of-support-follows-horrific-meetinghouse-shooting-in-nevada?lang=eng

Please don't duck the question by saying something like "Tell me how carrying concealed would have prevented this."  Just answer the question.  You made the claim, I'm wondering if you really mean it.

 

Edited by NeuroTypical
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3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

You didn't lose credibility because you posted scriptures.  You lost credibility because you claimed anyone who disagrees with your position has hardened their hearts against Christ.

Cool story though.  Thank you for sharing, and I believe you.  I also have an endless tsunami of events where the spirit did not interject in affairs, and innocent folks died.  Dood - if I could rely on divine intervention in my family's life in all such situations, you'd find me the first in line to get rid of my gun.

"No righteous man is ever taken before his time. In the case of the faithful Saints, they are simply transferred to other fields of labor."  - President Joseph Fielding Smith, Funeral services for Elder Richard L. Evans, Thursday, November 4, 1971.

Living in fear of what could happen seems like a sad existence. The Church has asked people to not bring guns into church buildings. That is good enough for me.

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2 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

"No righteous man is ever taken before his time. In the case of the faithful Saints, they are simply transferred to other fields of labor."  - President Joseph Fielding Smith, Funeral services for Elder Richard L. Evans, Thursday, November 4, 1971.

Good.  So, the tens of thousands of times per year when bad guys are thwarted by good guys with guns, it's because righteous folks are doing their part to ensure they and their loved ones are not taken before their time.

 

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8 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Living in fear of what could happen seems like a sad existence. The Church has asked people to not bring guns into church buildings. That is good enough for me.

Speaking of zero credibility.  I've yet to meet the conceal carry permit holder that lives in fear.  

D&C 38:30: "...if ye are prepared ye shall not fear."

D&C 58:26 "For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward."

Edited by NeuroTypical
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9 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Tell me Emmanuel Goldstein, are you so sure God wanted Bert Miller dead back in July?

https://www.lds.org/church/news/outpouring-of-support-follows-horrific-meetinghouse-shooting-in-nevada?lang=eng

 

If he was a righteous man then I know he will be of great use in the Spirit World to accomplish God's purposes. 

To use a scripture again:
Alma 14:9-13

And it came to pass that they took Alma and Amulek, and carried them forth to the place of martyrdom, that they might witness the destruction of those who were consumed by fire.

And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene? Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames.

But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.

Now Amulek said unto Alma: Behold, perhaps they will burn us also.

And Alma said: Be it according to the will of the Lord. But, behold, our work is not finished; therefore they burn us not.

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4 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

The topic is not whether people should protect themselves or not. The point is that people are not allowed to carry a gun in the Conference Center for Conference. There are security procedures for a reason, so carry if you want, but not to General Conference.

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26 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

The topic is not whether people should protect themselves or not. The point is that people are not allowed to carry a gun in the Conference Center for Conference. There are security procedures for a reason, so carry if you want, but not to General Conference.

Nobody disagrees with you because... that's the General Conference Center Rules.

What people disagree on is your statement that "Guns have no place in a religious building."

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2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

This is quite the insult.

You think that every person who carries a gun have no problem shooting innocent people.  Really?  You don't think they worry about killing innocent people?  Like, that doesn't bother them at all????

I have a 15-year-old who can shoot a one-inch cluster at 15 yards with his .22 pistol.  He got on the rifle team, saw the range they were shooting at (a concrete wall behind the target) and refused to shoot until they get a better range.  He told the instructor that at 15 yards, that wall can cause a ricochet if you miss the target and you'll have unpredictable stray bullets.  That's a 15-year-old who, in Florida, is not trusted to carry a weapon.  His father and grandfather both have concealed carry permits.  The grandfather was a bishop a while back and carried everywhere including church.  My husband leaves his firearm in the car.

Those who are afraid of gun carriers have a low opinion of everyday people.  Your daughter shouldn't have a gun.

anatess2-

In no way was I going for an insult. Just saying that my daughter is so inept and clueless when it comes to guns- that it is a scary thought to imagine her with a gun in a crowded area. And BTW she's in her mid 30's and should have good common sense.... but she doesn't.

Her + gun + crowded area with a shooter= disaster

 Only meant that Grunt would take (his?) words back about untrained gun carriers if (he?) ever had to experience her with gun in crowd. The thought terrifies me.

"Those who are afraid of gun carriers have a low opinion of everyday people.  Your daughter shouldn't have a gun"

Oh dear- I'm sorry if you misunderstood me...... I'm not afraid of those who carry..... I grew up around guns, I shoot guns myself with no problems (even hit targets)...... I just don't think that untrained people need to carry any weapon in a crowded area.

P.S. your son has more common sense than his instructor, and yes my daughter should not have a gun (unless until she gets training..... and even then I'm not too sure)

Edited by Lindy
Need to change to name implied
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1 minute ago, Grunt said:

Does your daughter have a mental illness or are you just saying she's really, really dumb?

No mental illness, not really, really dumb either; she just doesn't use her common sense in making some decisions that can have disastrous results.

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A rangemaster told me a story of the lady he trained who was afraid of guns.  She learned how to operate a gun relatively safely, but couldn't actually hit a target, because she would literally squeeze her eyes shut and turn her head away before pulling the trigger.

I am totally fine with people not having a gun if they don't want to/can't learn how to be safe and comfortable with one.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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1 minute ago, Lindy said:

No mental illness, not really, really dumb either; she just doesn't use her common sense in making some decisions that can have disastrous results.

Is she around knives?  Acid compounds?  Gasoline?  Stove?  Has she managed to kill anybody with these yet?  Why not? 

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Just now, NeuroTypical said:

A rangemaster told me a story of the lady he trained who was afraid of guns.  She learned how to operate a gun relatively safely, but couldn't actually hit a target, because she would literally squeeze her eyes shut and turn her head before pulling the trigger.

It's called "Hollywood marksmanship". Or if it isn't, it should be. This is how many Hollywood actors/actresses "fire" guns. Kind of hilarious, and so obvious that even a relatively non-gun-proficient person like me can see it.

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4 minutes ago, Vort said:

It's called "Hollywood marksmanship". Or if it isn't, it should be. This is how many Hollywood actors/actresses "fire" guns. Kind of hilarious, and so obvious that even a relatively non-gun-proficient person like me can see it.

Speaking of Hollywood... I've noticed a rise in Hollywood's use of the "front kick" throwing the opponent clear off the room.  I started noticing the thing in the Atomic Blonde trailer.  That's why you never let Hollywood inform your real life actions - it could get you killed.

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11 minutes ago, Vort said:

It's called "Hollywood marksmanship". Or if it isn't, it should be. This is how many Hollywood actors/actresses "fire" guns. Kind of hilarious, and so obvious that even a relatively non-gun-proficient person like me can see it.

 
You've to wonder what they might be afraid of. The barrel's mouth of the gun doesn't aim to themselves. 🤠
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4 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Speaking of Hollywood... I've noticed a rise in Hollywood's use of the "front kick" throwing the opponent clear off the room.  I started noticing the thing in the Atomic Blonde trailer.  That's why you never let Hollywood inform your real life actions - it could get you killed.

You're surely right.

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2 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

In a confined space? Good luck being able to see once your blast. lol

 

I once got the idea of wearing some pure black pepper in my right hand jeans pocket. In case of getting in trouble and in a self defense you could throw it or wipe it directly into the face of the aggressor. I guess even a dog would get finished and moved away, with its nose a thousand times more sensible than a man's. It's like a Ninja weapon.

Edited by OnePassenger
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