Military Obligation

[Fether]

42 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Vietnam being Communist even today. 

Mmmmmm... they SAY they are communist, but are they REALLY?

[anatess2]

38 minutes ago, Fether said:

Mmmmmm... they SAY they are communist, but are they REALLY?

Yep.  Single-party socialist Republic or in other words - Communist.

Every aspect of Vietnamese life is centrally planned by the government.  The government allowed private ownership in the mid-80's after the end of the Cold War but are only allowed to keep profits the government deemed appropriate with the rest of the profits used by the government to improve economically poor areas.  The government also granted autonomy to scientific research organizations but, it can always take them away when it stops serving their purposes.

Although the government allows its citizens to leave the country (easy to get a passport), they have to first get permission from the government.  Citizens under 40 are usually denied permanent exit unless they have tons of money or own businesses in Vietnam or get married to foreigners.  Those who get married to Americans go through a lot of hurdle - attain exit papers from Vietnamese govt which is surprisingly less complicated than their requirement to attain entry papers into the US from the US govt. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by anatess2

[askandanswer]

Moroni on the subject of military obligations:
 

(Book of Mormon | Alma 51:13 - 21)
13  And it came to pass that when the men who were called king-men had heard that the Lamanites were coming down to battle against them, they were glad in their hearts; and they refused to take up arms, for they were so wroth with the chief judge, and also with the people of liberty, that they would not take up arms to defend their country.
14  And it came to pass that when Moroni saw this, and also saw that the Lamanites were coming into the borders of the land, he was exceedingly wroth because of the stubbornness of those people whom he had labored with so much diligence to preserve; yea, he was exceedingly wroth; his soul was filled with anger against them.
15  And it came to pass that he sent a petition, with the voice of the people, unto the governor of the land, desiring that he should read it, and give him (Moroni) power to compel those dissenters to defend their country or to put them to death.
16  For it was his first care to put an end to such contentions and dissensions among the people; for behold, this had been hitherto a cause of all their destruction.  And it came to pass that it was granted according to the voice of the people.
17  And it came to pass that Moroni commanded that his army should go against those king-men, to pull down their pride and their nobility and level them with the earth, or they should take up arms and support the cause of liberty.
18  And it came to pass that the armies did march forth against them; and they did pull down their pride and their nobility, insomuch that as they did lift their weapons of war to fight against the men of Moroni they were hewn down and leveled to the earth.
19  And it came to pass that there were four thousand of those dissenters who were hewn down by the sword; and those of their leaders who were not slain in battle were taken and cast into prison, for there was no time for their trials at this period.
20  And the remainder of those dissenters, rather than be smitten down to the earth by the sword, yielded to the standard of liberty, and were compelled to hoist the title of liberty upon their towers, and in their cities, and to take up arms in defence of their country.
21  And thus Moroni put an end to those king-men, that there were not any known by the appellation of king-men; and thus he put an end to the stubbornness and the pride of those people who professed the blood of nobility; but they were brought down to humble themselves like unto their brethren, and to fight valiantly for their freedom from bondage.
 

This incident of the nobility desiring a king, and the non-nobility opposing the idea and then attacking and killing the nobility seems to have some similarities with some aspects of the French revolution.

[Traveler]

Winston Churchill once said that there are things worse than war and they all come from loosing one.   In the USA we have never actually lost a war.  This has brought about a lot of various opinions about the military.  Perhaps the biggest problem with a military is when the military is controlled by corrupt individuals.  A lessor problem is the very command structure of the military.  The structure is both necessary and contrary to basic principles of freedom and liberty.  Perhaps I need explain.

In sports there is a saying that regardless of how good an individual is they will be beaten by a team.  There is another saying - that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.  There are many lessons to be learned from mortality.  Among such lessons is that evil can motivate and bring about a unity that will crush all things less united  - regardless of the "goodness" in the individuals that oppose evil that is united.  We would like to think that G-d (the ultimate good) will step in and protect the innocent from evil.   This is perhaps the hardest lesson of mortality.  Sometimes this lesson is so hard to learn that many become convinced that there is no G-d.

Please let me outline the conundrum.  The great lesson of war and military obligation is that in order to preserve freedom and liberty individuals must come to gather, set aside their freedoms and liberties and take orders.  But even worse - very often by time the orders reach to poor soul in the fox hole - the orders are silly, convoluted and insane but they must be followed.  The reason is because it is better (more important) for all to be united and acting as one than it is for any single individual to be right and oppose the insanity.  I do not think many understand this conundrum.  During my military experience little men with half a brain were more often than not put in charge.  But since unity is so important the punishment for disobeying an order (insubordination) was greater than any other.    But I would draw another analogy - it involves the Atonement of Christ.

The analogy is - why would someone so good and so right sacrifice themselves for the freedoms and liberties of others that mostly do not understand the sacrifice or appreciate the full measure of it.  Really - falling on an explosive device to save everybody else - most of whom really do not understand and care that much - especially those that would not consider putting themselves (including freedoms and liberties) in harms way so that other can survive - but for what?

I signed up in the army reserves with a special release for a mission.  I was allowed to take a conditional leave to serve a mission and then return to complete my obligation.  When I returned from my mission to complete my obligation I was able to attend college while my records were being processed.  Guess what the big issue was at BYU?  It was the length of skirts for the coeds and if, in the winter, they should be allowed to wear pants to classes.  Steven Covey said that the main thing of life is always keeping the main thing of life the main thing.   I have watched and little of much has changed and families are failing and all kinds of gender confusion - and why?  Because so many individuals think that freedom and liberty means that their individual rights trumps unity and the rights of everybody else.  @askandanswer provided an interesting post above about Moroni and the Title of Liberty.  Even in the pre-existence - there is a obligation to fight to preserve freedom and liberty and I am convinced that those unwilling to join the team - will lose - despite all others efforts to save them.

 

The Traveler

[Guest MormonGator]

On 10/17/2018 at 11:32 AM, Colirio said:

My belief is that the gospel of Jesus Christ is THE answer, not more government education and/or involvement in our lives. 

My thoughts as well. 

[askandanswer]

I'm all in favour of the draft if that's whats needed to wipe out alligators from Florida.