lostinwater

Abuse Allegation Against Members Of Nelson Family

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So, reality TV started getting really popular, what, a decade or two ago?  We've elevated "yelling about who should be voted off the island", and "getting mad at fabio getting away with what he did to shanae when lori is the one who actually deserved to be treated that way", and enshrined such things into several new generations and our cultural consciousness.  It's a higher level than the soap operas of the '70's-'90's, because it involves (supposedly) real people.

Well, if it's a game, here's how to play it.  I think there is something that might put an end to all the #RuinALifeBasedOnA30YearOldAllegation.  A frivolous alleger has to publicly crash and burn. Like, hard.  Prison time, million dollar defamation lawsuit, their own marriage ends up getting destroyed, something like that.  If CNN Headline News shows that happening, some sanity might return. 

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2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

If CNN Headline News shows that happening, some sanity might return. 

Oh that happens all the time.  To anybody accusing the left of something.  You know, like those types of women you get when you drag $100 through a trailer park...

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On 10/4/2018 at 10:15 AM, anatess2 said:

@lostinwater, I see you're confused.  I'm not sure if you're LDS, but for us Mormons there's no "if it happened".  It's like saying, "Mother Theresa abused children".  The idea is so preposterous that even considering that it happened offends the senses.

Yeah, I agree with @NeuroTypical.

When the accusation is made, we listen.  We consider the possibilities.  But then when we hear the details, it appears that the accusation was actually investigated thoroughly, and yet these accusers are saying it was the Church's fault for not reporting it.  Huh???

I read the whole article and I saw nothing indicating that the Church had any obligation to report anything.  It seemed like the only intervention was when Pres. Nelson gave a blessing to help them forgive and forget.  But it gave no timeline.  Was this before or after this had already been reported?  The article doesn't say.  There are merely accusations.

There really is completely insufficient detail in this article to make any sense of anything.  It's just a money-making headline with a lot of frills filling up the length of the article.  I don't see anything else there to make a judgment either way.

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On 10/4/2018 at 7:24 PM, Suzie said:

Oh well, now I am even MORE confused. Please tell me if I am wrong.

Married couple has kids. Man allegedly sexually abused them, mother divorced him and filed a police report. Man re-married and the step-children of that marriage are joining the lawsuit.

The Miles (daughter and son-in law related to Pres. Nelson) are NOT this couple but they are being accused as being part of some sort of "touching parties" where they also allegedly sexually molested these children.

Correct?

I'm even more confused than you are.  So, I'll just stay out until more information is brought to light.

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30 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Yeah, I agree with @NeuroTypical.

When the accusation is made, we listen.  We consider the possibilities.  But then when we hear the details, it appears that the accusation was actually investigated thoroughly, and yet these accusers are saying it was the Church's fault for not reporting it.  Huh???

I read the whole article and I saw nothing indicating that the Church had any obligation to report anything.  It seemed like the only intervention was when Pres. Nelson gave a blessing to help them forgive and forget.  But it gave no timeline.  Was this before or after this had already been reported?  The article doesn't say.  There are merely accusations.

There really is completely insufficient detail in this article to make any sense of anything.  It's just a money-making headline with a lot of frills filling up the length of the article.  I don't see anything else there to make a judgment either way.

It was Elder Maxwell they claimed gave a blessing.  Then-Elder Nelson is reported as showing up in the ward at just the right/wrong time, implying tacit imposition of force to prevent anyone from pursuing the accusation against his daughter and son-in-law.  The accusations against the Church are basically that these folks-with-connections used their influence to ensure the case was not seriously / fairly investigated.

(It's entirely possible that some/much of this was not in the news article, but in the complaint filed with the court - which I strongly recommend you not read.)

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On 10/3/2018 at 6:46 PM, lostinwater said:

Not sure what to say about this one.  If it happened, it's terrible, if it didn't happen, it's also terrible.

https://fox13now.com/2018/10/03/lawsuit-alleging-sex-abuse-cover-up-filed-against-family-of-lds-church-president/

 

words are cheap.

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Just a note for the uninformed.  If someone is to go to the internet and type sex offenders in {city, state} they will discover that there are a lot of convicted sex offenders all over Utah - thousands in fact.  It is possible that one or a few were not convicted?  Maybe but in this country a person is considered innocent until PROVEN guilty.  That is the standard and the law.  Accusations are not proof.  Many accusations still are not proof.

Okay - that is one side.

I also happen to know that crimes involving children are quite difficult to prove.  Children are not reliable witnesses.  Thus a failure to convict does not mean a crime did not take place.

I will tell a true story - I know a person that was convicted of abusing children - that person was also abused.  There was enough solid evidence to convict the person but their record was expunged because they were a minor.  The person went through therapy and their parents pronounced them clean and cured.   And so this person was brought to functions where my family (while my children were still young) were present.  I shadowed this person very closely.  They were quite offended (as were his parents) and confronted me for following him everywhere.  I responded that I was the best friend he had at the function.  If someone were to accuse him I would be the perfect witness that nothing happened.   Now, many years later, I personally believe this individual to be safe - even around children.  Not because I think he is cured and has no problems - but because I believe they have a clear understanding (perhaps better than most) what is right and wrong around children and they are determined not to do something wrong.

There are many dangers in our world.  I think we can use good sense and spiritual guidance (not just one or the other) and find protection in life (anyway it has worked so far for me) - but not necessarily without someone blaming or falsely accusing.  But for those what would (harbor an ever present desires to) offend children - I honestly believe it would be better that they were never born.

 

The Traveler

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Problem I have with this stuff is that in a real sex abuse case, no matter how much money you get, it doesn't touch true reparation for the damage done.  I know back when Michael Jackson was alive, people wouid accuse him of being a ChiMo, but he'd settle out of court.  Because back then (and even now) the parents only wanted money.  The damage that can do to a person's image is horrible.  Far better to give them what they want and they'll scurry off with the rest of the insects.  Awful but true.

At the same time even real victims will just settle out instead of wanting to go through the horror of court.  Sickenly awful but very true.

 

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