Hoped-for revelations and changes at General Conference

[Vort]

• Brother Benevolence: “A specific promise of protection and revelation for those who strive to repent and keep their covenants.”
• Sister Stalwart: “Further light and knowledge about how to minister effectively to our sisters and brothers, both in our families and among others.”
• Brother Believing: “Instructions on what it really means to love as the Savior loves and how we can actually do that today, right now.”
• Sister Starry-Eyed: “A divine promise that if we take our ministering responsibilities seriously and really live by the Spirit, we can bring again Zion in our generation.”
• The Great and Spacious Membership: “TWO-HOUR CHURCH! SHORTER GARMENTS!  EASIER TEMPLE WORSHIP! FEWER MEETINGS! QUIT WASTING OUR TIME AND PATIENCE WITH ALL THIS CHURCHY STUFF!”

John 11:35

As a wise man guy once wrote: I am embarrassed for much of the membership of the Church that their idea of a monumental and joyous change inspired by heaven to bless God's children is to cut our communal Sabbath day worship by a third.

[NeuroTypical]

Made me think of something Vort showed me a few years ago.

Quote

When Antony preaches, he goes to the beaches
Converting the fish who can't make it to church.
They swarm up to listen, adrip and aglisten,
The trout and the minnow, the pike and the perch.

"Treat all as your brother. Don't murder each other,
For all of God's creatures are children alike."
What a marvelous spirit! The minnows all cheer it;
They whisper and glare at the murderous pike.

"The root of all evil, great tool of the Devil,
Is love of possessions. You'd best do without."
What a marvelous spirit! The pike love to hear it,
And cast a stern eye on the miserly trout.

"Work hard! Those who idle will bear harsh requital.
Who shirks at his labors gets left in the lurch."
What a marvelous spirit! The trout just revere it.
They nudge one another and mutter, "Those perch!"

"Eschew fornications and lawless relations,
For sex unrestrained leads to sorrow and tears!"
What a marvelous spirit! The perch love to hear it.
They glance at the minnows with snickers and sneers.

The saint ends his preaching. The fish love such teaching,
And watch as his figure recedes from the shore.
Then greed, lust, and slaughter resume in the water,
And all is exactly the same as before.

 

[Searching]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

• Brother Benevolence: “A specific promise of protection and revelation for those who strive to repent and keep their covenants.”
• Sister Stalwart: “Further light and knowledge about how to minister effectively to our sisters and brothers, both in our families and among others.”
• Brother Believing: “Instructions on what it really means to love as the Savior loves and how we can actually do that today, right now.”
• Sister Starry-Eyed: “A divine promise that if we take our ministering responsibilities seriously and really live by the Spirit, we can bring again Zion in our generation.”
• The Great and Spacious Membership: “TWO-HOUR CHURCH! SHORTER GARMENTS!  EASIER TEMPLE WORSHIP! FEWER MEETINGS! QUIT WASTING OUR TIME AND PATIENCE WITH ALL THIS CHURCHY STUFF!”

John 11:35

As a wise man guy once wrote: I am embarrassed for much of the membership of the Church that their idea of a monumental and joyous change inspired by heaven to bless God's children is to cut our communal Sabbath day worship by a third.

• Brother Benevolence: “A specific promise of protection and revelation for those who strive to repent and keep their covenants.”

"Protection" is not something any Christian should hope for or depend on... consider how 11 of the 12 original apostles died...  after a few bad experiences I no longer expect protection... keep the commandments, read scriptures, say prayers, go to the temple and you will be???_________  the only thing to count on is perhaps you will have better character... you will not be protected.  To promise protection to anyone is walking on dangerous grounds and can increase pain when trials come.  

• Sister Stalwart: “Further light and knowledge about how to minister effectively to our sisters and brothers, both in our families and among others.”
• Brother Believing: “Instructions on what it really means to love as the Savior loves and how we can actually do that today, right now.”

It would be great to have some new service-projects - announce that the church will now run half-way homes, will start opening up women and children shelters, will increase humanitarian programs through the world, will open up and fund medical clinics etc. etc.

 

What I would love to hear:

• New policies protecting children and others from abuse - avoiding even the "appearance of evil" when it comes to interview policies and practices.
• New support groups organised for abuse victims, support groups for those going through divorce or other life events, support groups for those with health issues
• New Sunday school group - not gospel doctrine, not gospel essentials... how about a faith-crisis, or faith transition lesson - a place for those who have doubts?  
• It would be really really great if the church would make room for those who are not "all-in", a place for those who are struggling and need help, a place that is accepting of those with everything from LGBT to abuse and other addictions to faith questions (agnostics, etc.)  ...

I do not want to get my hopes up though...

Edited October 5, 2018 by Searching

[Vort]

13 minutes ago, Searching said:

"Protection" is not something any Christian should hope for or depend on... consider how 11 of the 12 original apostles died...  after a few bad experiences I no longer expect protection... keep the commandments, read scriptures, say prayers, go to the temple and you will be???_________  the only thing to count on is perhaps you will have better character... you will not be protected.  To promise protection to anyone is walking on dangerous grounds and can increase pain when trials come.  

The scriptures appear to disagree with your interpretation. Alma 34 is a prime example, and includes the specific injunction, "Yea, cry unto him against the power of your enemies."

13 minutes ago, Searching said:

New policies protecting children and others from abuse - avoiding even the "appearance of evil" when it comes to interview policies and practices.

Not sure what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that bishops no longer interview youth for temple recommends because some mentally ill person or antiMormon might claim they're abusing the child?

13 minutes ago, Searching said:

New support groups organised for abuse victims, support groups for those going through divorce or other life events, support groups for those with health issues

Why might we expect (or even want) our individual responsibilities for charity to be socialized? Programs are fine, but that's not likely to be a huge announced revelatory change in General Conference.

13 minutes ago, Searching said:

New Sunday school group - not gospel doctrine, not gospel essentials... how about a faith-crisis, or faith transition lesson - a place for those who have doubts?  

We have those places. They're called gospel doctrine and gospel essentials. In what way would these other classes you're proposing operate?

13 minutes ago, Searching said:

It would be really really great if the church would make room for those who are not "all-in", a place for those who are struggling and need help, a place that is accepting of those with everything from LGBT to abuse and other addictions to faith questions (agnostics, etc.)  ...

Again, how is this any different from what we now have? We accept those who abuse drugs, who abuse their own sexuality, who abuse their covenants, who abuse others. As long as they behave themselves at Church, we welcome them. Again, what exactly are you suggesting or expecting?

Edited October 5, 2018 by Vort

[Searching]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

N

 

I'm going through "SafeColleges" training right now.

• Among undergraduates, 23.1 percent of females and 5.4 percent of males experiences rape or sexual assault through physical force, violence or incapacitation.
• 21% of transgender, gender queer and nonconforming (TGQN) college students have been sexually assaulted, compared with 18% of non-TGQN females and 4% of non-TGQN males.  
• Only 20% of female students age 18-24 who have experienced sexual violence make a report to law enforcement
• About one in six college-age female survivors received assistance from a victim services agency.

Abuse is a HUGE problem.  That is great to talk to abusers - encourage repentance.  Care and help for those who are victims needs to be addressed in real, tangible ways - with counseling services, support groups... victims are not getting the help they need.

[NeuroTypical]

Voices in a child's life that urge chastity, and abstinence until marriage:
- Parents
- Church

Imma have a problem with crossing either one of those of the list, thank you very much. 

[Searching]

5 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Voices in a child's life that urge chastity, and abstinence until marriage:
- Parents
- Church

Imma have a problem with crossing either one of those of the list, thank you very much. 

 

There is a good healthy way, and a not so safe and healthy way, to be there for kids... Everyone wants to protect both kids from abuse, and leaders from false accusations... there is an easy way to do this.  Nothing wrong with having more than one male and one little girl in a room all alone together.  

This is a "wishful thinking" thread... so, wishful thinking...

The wives of bishopric members will now accompany their husbands for all interviews... ← wouldn't that be great?  To allow those who serve to serve with their spouse?  

It is not just kids - A married man alone in a room with someone else's wife - it is not good for emotional intimacy to happen in this sort of a scenario... 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Searching

[Vort]

8 minutes ago, Searching said:

Among undergraduates, 23.1 percent of females and 5.4 percent of males experiences rape or sexual assault through physical force, violence or incapacitation.

I disbelieve this. The exactness of the figures -- not 23.2% of women, mind you, nor a mere 22.9%, but 23.1% -- belies their validity. In most such cases I have seen, the definition of "sexual assault" gets expanded to include people who say nasty things to you or who accidentally brush up against you in an elevator.

9 minutes ago, Searching said:

21% of transgender, gender queer and nonconforming (TGQN) college students have been sexually assaulted, compared with 18% of non-TGQN females and 4% of non-TGQN males.

...wait a minute. What happened to 23.1% of females? Your numbers do not match up.

11 minutes ago, Searching said:

I'm going through "SafeColleges" training right now.

Does it ever cross your mind that maybe, you know, they aren't telling you the truth? That maybe they have an agenda, an axe to grind, and they process everything they say through that agenda? That their agenda might not be as simple as "protect people"?

[Vort]

8 minutes ago, Searching said:

The wives of bishopric members will now accompany their husbands for all interviews... ← wouldn't that be great?  To allow those who serve to serve with their spouse?

That would be absurd. I, for one, would be far less likely to talk openly to my bishop if his wife were in the room with him. He holds the Priesthood keys of leadership, not his wife.

[SilentOne]

5 minutes ago, Searching said:

There is a good healthy way, and a not so safe and healthy way, to be there for kids... Everyone wants to protect both kids from abuse, and leaders from false accusations... there is an easy way to do this.  Nothing wrong with having more than one male and one little girl in a room all alone together.

 

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/new-guidelines-for-interviewing-youth

Quote

When a member of a bishopric or stake presidency or another assigned leader meets with a child, youth, or woman, he or she should ask a parent or another adult to be in an adjoining room, foyer, or hall. If the person being interviewed desires, another adult may be invited to be present during the interview.

 

Requiring a second adult to be in the room would often decrease the likelihood of confession.

[Searching]

11 minutes ago, Vort said:

That would be absurd. I, for one, would be far less likely to talk openly to my bishop if his wife were in the room with him. He holds the Priesthood keys of leadership, not his wife.

 

You do not believe couples are "equally yoked", do not believe they are "of one flesh and one heart"??  you think a church calling should come between a husband a wife, that wives and husbands should have "secrets" from one another, should not share everything with one another?   does not sound like a very healthy definition of marriage to me...  I would not trust a leader who is in such a marriage.  

Edited October 5, 2018 by Searching

[Searching]

8 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/new-guidelines-for-interviewing-youth

Requiring a second adult to be in the room would often decrease the likelihood of confession.

 

I am aware of, and am thankful for the new changes to both youth interviews, and requiring two-deep policies within classrooms.  Those changes were sorely needed. 

When one-on-one interview policies are the established norm, a little kid will not feel very comfortable asking another adult to be in the room though... I can see where parents in the room might pose a problem -  the new policy unfortunately opens the door for abusive parents to invite themselves into the interview further complicating the situation... 

The best thing - just my opinion - would be for a healthy married couple, a male and female, to be in there as an example of loving parents - helping those who need help together.... It would strengthen the marriage of those who serve in leadership positions, would drive home the point of what a marriage is supposed to be, would provide both the male and female perspective, would honor women in their roles... 

Not getting my hopes up... again, this is just a "what do you hope" thread... 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Searching

[NeuroTypical]

This is one of those "either the church is true or it isn't" moments.

If it isn't, it makes little sense to have a priesthood leader with the stewardship to help you through the repentance process in ways that often require you to describe in explicit detail and precise descriptive language, your sexual sins.  So hey, might as well drop that thing all together. If the church isn't true, that is. 

[zil]

On 10/5/2018 at 2:57 PM, Searching said:

The wives of bishopric members will now accompany their husbands for all interviews... ← wouldn't that be great? 

No, it wouldn't be great.  If someone doesn't want to be alone with the bishop, why would they want to be alone with the bishop and his wife?  (Maybe you haven't seen the accusation against the Miles couple?)  Let the person being interviewed choose their own second person to come with them - if, by fluke, that happens to be the bishop's wife, fine, whatever - but it seems unlikely.  The whole point is to have someone you trust more than the bishop / to protect you against the bishop - his wife ain't that person.

On 10/5/2018 at 3:11 PM, Searching said:

You do not believe couples are "equally yoked", do not believe they are "of one flesh and one heart"??

When it comes to keys?  Of course not.  The bishop isn't even allowed to talk to his wife about the counseling he does with people, and there's good reason for that - for her, for him, and for those he counsels.

On 10/5/2018 at 3:11 PM, Searching said:

you think a church calling should come between a husband a wife

On 10/5/2018 at 3:11 PM, Searching said:

that wives and husbands should have "secrets" from one another, should not share everything with one another?

Yep.  And apparently so do the leaders of the Church, and presumably the Lord.

On 10/5/2018 at 3:11 PM, Searching said:

I would not trust a leader who is in such a marriage.

Then you'd best stop trusting every bishop and stake president and all their counselors (and presumably all the authorities above them).

Edited October 7, 2018 by zil

[omegaseamaster75]

17 minutes ago, Searching said:

 

You do not believe couples are "equally yoked", do not believe they are "of one flesh and one heart"??  you think a church calling should come between a husband a wife, that wives and husbands should have "secrets" from one another, should not share everything with one another?   does not sound like a very healthy definition of marriage to me...  I would not trust a leader who is in such a marriage.  

Sounds like you don't trust your Bishop or stake president. They keep secrets from their wives.

[Vort]

14 minutes ago, Searching said:

You do not believe couples are "equally yoked", do not believe they are "of one flesh and one heart"??

Of course I do.

15 minutes ago, Searching said:

you think a church calling should come between a husband a wife,

Of course I do not.

15 minutes ago, Searching said:

that wives and husbands should have "secrets" from one another, should not share everything with one another?

ABSOFRICKINLUTELY! A husband who serves as a bishop or other person who receives privileged information had darned well better not be blabbing to his wife about what he hears. Same for a woman in such a position. This is not a difficult thing to figure out. When you are expected to keep a secret, you keep the secret.

17 minutes ago, Searching said:

does not sound like a very healthy definition of marriage to me...  I would not trust a leader who is in such a marriage.

I, in contrast, would not trust a leader who violates his covenants in telling his wife what I confide to him. Such a man has no place in the kingdom of God until and unless he repents and learns to act in a trustworthy manner.

[Searching]

 

I guess I am new here - am a struggling member, and am struggling because a high priest abused his position of authority (this HP is now in jail). Judas was an apostle - apostles and priests are not perfect... it is ok not to expect them to walk on water... better not to expect too much of them it seems....

When I talk to someone who is married, I let them know that I treat it as talking with both people in the marriage - I would never want anything I say or share to be a wedge between two people who are married.  I view them as one flesh, united in heart and in mind, and treat married people in a way that attempts to strengthen their marriage.  I feel very uncomfortable talking to anyone of the opposite sex, alone in a room - it feels just feels very wrong to me.... you are supposed to be close to your own spouse, not close to other people's spouses.... 

just coming from a few... painful experiences... 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Searching

[Searching]

8 minutes ago, Vort said:

ABSOFRICKINLUTELY! A husband who serves as a bishop or other person who receives privileged information had darned well better not be blabbing to his wife about what he hears. Same for a woman in such a position. This is not a difficult thing to figure out. When you are expected to keep a secret, you keep the secret.

 

 

You... a male... would be uncomfortable sitting along in a room with your bishop's wife - just as I, as a female, would feel uncomfortable sitting in a room with another married man all alone...

The same way you feel about talking with a girl, I feel with talking to a guy... 

[zil]

1 minute ago, Searching said:

You... a male... would be uncomfortable sitting along in a room with your bishop's wife - just as I, as a female, would feel uncomfortable sitting in a room with another married man all alone...

The same way you feel about talking with a girl, I feel with talking to a guy... 

So because the Lord's order makes you uncomfortable, men should be forced into uncomfortable situations too?  Just to get even?   Maybe you should reexamine that notion.

[Vort]

6 minutes ago, Searching said:

You... a male... would be uncomfortable sitting along in a room with your bishop's wife - just as I, as a female, would feel uncomfortable sitting in a room with another married man all alone...

I would not be uncomfortable in the least. Not sure where you got that idea.

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

The Great and Spacious Membership

Haha!

[Searching]

8 minutes ago, Vort said:

I would not be uncomfortable in the least. Not sure where you got that idea.

 

You said "darned well better not be blabbing to his wife about what he hears"

Sounded like you do not hold a bishop's wife in very high esteem?  That married couples should not council together, should not try to help people together?  

Sounded like you were ok to opening up about your problems to the bishop, but would not be comfortable opening up to the bishop's wife about your problems?  

Edited October 5, 2018 by Searching

[Searching]

12 minutes ago, zil said:

So because the Lord's order makes you uncomfortable, men should be forced into uncomfortable situations too?  Just to get even?   Maybe you should reexamine that notion.

 

walk a mile in another's shoes... 

 

[Connie]

I am so tired of all the rumors and predictions. Here's my current favorite meme:

Edited October 5, 2018 by Connie

[zil]

1 minute ago, Searching said:

walk a mile in another's shoes...

It would not change the fact that giving the interviewee the options of:

1) Don't come at all

2) Come alone

3) Bring someone you trust

...is the best possible way to ensure everyone is as comfortable in the process as possible while still obeying the Lord's commands.