How do you Interpret this quote?


Fether
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“I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self security. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not”

- Brigham Young

Is he implying that sometimes the prophets will lead us astray and we need to seek confirmation in order to know if we should follow the prophet?

Or is he saying that we need to gain a testimony of the prophet through prayer rather than blindly following?

The reason I ask this is because the first interpretation seems to suggest the prophet is only sometime speaking on behalf of God and I find that very destructive. I think this quote has often lead people to have a soft approach to the prophets words.

But what do you like?

Edited by Fether
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8 minutes ago, Fether said:

Is he implying that sometimes the prophets will lead us astray and we need to seek confirmation in order to know if we should follow the prophet?

Or is he saying that we need to gain a testimony of the prophet through prayer rather than blindly following?

I think the second.

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The scriptures are full of allegorical teachings of a shepherd and his sheep.

Jesus is both a Lamb and a Shepherd.

I believe that we should follow his example.

We should start as Lambs but grow into Sheep.  But at some point we must evolve into shepherds.

Its always better to be a sheep than a goat.  But any Sheep that dosent evolve into a Shepherd is only good for a meal. 

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25 minutes ago, Fether said:

“I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self security. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not”

- Brigham Young

Occasionally, we hear about people who lose faith based on the behavior of a bishop or stake president.  Sometimes we hear about people who do dumb things at the counsel of one of these local leaders.  I can't begin to know what Brigham Young intended by the quote beyond the literal meaning of the words (and I'm not in the mood right now to go find it and see the context around it), but I think as far as application goes, it can be applied to local leaders as well as prophets and apostles.

Further, I think we could find something else in there - namely, if all we do is passively follow our leaders, what might we miss that the Lord would have specifically and only for us?  I expect the highest levels of leadership in the Church are filled with those who are led by the Lord rather than by mortals, people who have sought that guidance not just to confirm that they should follow their leaders, but also for what else they should be doing.

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1 hour ago, Fether said:

“I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self security. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not”

- Brigham Young

Is he implying that sometimes the prophets will lead us astray and we need to seek confirmation in order to know if we should follow the prophet?

Or is he saying that we need to gain a testimony of the prophet through prayer rather than blindly following?

The reason I ask this is because the first interpretation seems to suggest the prophet is only sometime speaking on behalf of God and I find that very destructive. I think this quote has often lead people to have a soft approach to the prophets words.

But what do you like?

Honestly, I think this is a quote that is highly misunderstood by many, and has been used by some to think they know more than the prophet (or that the Lord will reveal something to their mind in contradiction to the Lord's prophet -- when they are acting in their authority and keys).

I believe this quote correlates perfectly with Joseph Smith's often quoted statement, "a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such." The prophet will not lead us astray, as the Lord will correct his servant, the prophets, if indeed they need to be corrected. This is evident with the following experience we have with Brigham Young:

Quote

“To this point runs a simple story my father told me as a boy, I do not know on what authority, but it illustrates the point. His story was that during the excitement incident to the coming of [Johnston’s] Army, Brother Brigham preached to the people in a morning meeting a sermon vibrant with defiance to the approaching army, and declaring an intention to oppose and drive them back. In the afternoon meeting he arose and said that Brigham Young had been talking in the morning, but the Lord was going to talk now. He then delivered an address, the tempo of which was the opposite from the morning talk. (emphasis mine)

I do not believe at all that Brigham is implying that a prophet is able to lead us astray. I do believe that Brigham Young is teaching the following principle, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." We are here to know for ourselves. Nephi is a perfect example of "knowing" for ourselves as he learned for himself that his father was indeed following the witness Lehi received from the Lord.

Laman and Lemuel on the other hand believed their father to be a visionary man. My biggest fear in this modern world of politically correct ideologies that members will be more like Laman and Lemuel due to misunderstandings of quotes like these. I think some people forget spiritual history. It was Moses that was translated, and those who thought they knew more than the prophet wandered for another 40 years and they missed out on the promises which the Lord promised due to their lack of obedience and trust in the Lord's servant. Thus we still hear whining in the wilderness even today.

When a prophet is acting in his role as a prophet, and if he speaks incorrectly, the Lord will chasten his servant and correct his course. I trust in my God, my Savior, and his mercy and grace that he will correct his servant if need be. When the prophet though is acting as a man, providing his own words, Brigham's words come into full force. The Adam-God theory is a perfect example. The Apocrypha I believe are perfect examples of what Brigham is meaning also, and what we have said in scripture regarding the Apocrypha also correlates with this statement. The prophecies given by other leaders are a perfect example also. We are responsible for our own "salvation" not the prophet, and this is what I understand these statements to mean.

 

 

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Let’s add some more context here.  The source is Journal of Discourses 9:150; a sermon given in 1862.  I’m posting about the last fourth of the sermon.  I will bold the extracts already cited:

 

I will say a few words in regard to your belief in being led, guided, and directed by one man. Brother Jackman has said that our enemies hate the fact of our being led by one man. Thousands of times my soul has been lifted to God the Father, in the name of Jesus, to make that verily true in every sense of the word, that we may be led by the man Jesus Christ, through Joseph Smith the Prophet. You may inquire how we are to know that we are so led. I refer you to the exhortation you have heard so frequently from me. Do not be deceived, any of you; if you are deceived, it is because you deceive yourselves. You may know whether you are led right or wrong, as well as you know the way home; for every principle God has revealed carries its own convictions of its truth to the human mind, and there is no calling of God to man on earth but what brings with it the evidences of its authenticity. Let us take a course that leads to the perpetuity of the natural life which God has given us, and honor it. Should we pursue this course faithfully, and never bestow one thought for the life that is to come, we are just as sure of that immortal life as we are of the life we now possess. This, in fact, is the only way in which we can be prepared to inherit that more glorious life. 

What a pity it would be if we were led by one man to utter destruction! Are you afraid of this? I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. This has been my exhortation continually. 

Brother Joseph W. Young remarked this morning that he wished the people to receive the word of the Lord through his servants, be dictated by them, and have no will of their own. I would express it in this wise: God has placed within us a will, and we should be satisfied to have it controlled by the will of the Almighty. Let the human will be indomitable for right. It has been the custom of parents to break the will until it is weakened, and the noble, Godlike powers of the child are reduced to a comparative state of imbecility and cowardice. Let that heaven-born property of human agents be properly tempered and wisely directed, instead of pursuing the opposite course, and it will conquer in the cause of right. Break not the spirit of any person, but guide it to feel that it is its greatest delight and highest ambition to be controlled by the revelations of Jesus Christ; then the will of man becomes Godlike in overcoming the evil that is sown in the flesh, until God shall reign within us to will and do of his good pleasure. 

Let all persons be fervent in prayer, until they know the things of God for themselves and become certain that they are walking in the path that leads to everlasting life; then will envy, the child of ignorance, vanish, and there will be no disposition in any man to place himself above another; for such a feeling meets no countenance in the order of heaven. Jesus Christ never wanted to be different from his father: they were and are one. If a people are led by the revelations of Jesus Christ, and they are cognizant of the fact through their faithfulness, there is no fear but they will be one in Christ Jesus, and see eye to eye.

 

My takeaway:  Young wasn’t worried about a day when the Church authorities would lead us to sin.  He was worried that without divine confirmation, we wouldn’t follow the Church authorities zealously enough to truly come to Christ, change our natures, and attain salvation.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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4 hours ago, Fether said:

Is he implying that sometimes the prophets will lead us astray and we need to seek confirmation in order to know if we should follow the prophet?

No.

4 hours ago, Fether said:

Or is he saying that we need to gain a testimony of the prophet through prayer rather than blindly following?

Yes.

He's saying this:

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall [hear] these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should [hear] them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

4 hours ago, Fether said:

I think this quote has often lead people to have a soft approach to the prophets words.

I don't agree. It's having a soft approach to the prophets words causes people to use that quote to justify what they want. It is not a result of the quote.

Edited by The Folk Prophet
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21 hours ago, Fether said:

“I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self security. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not”

- Brigham Young

Is he implying that sometimes the prophets will lead us astray and we need to seek confirmation in order to know if we should follow the prophet?

Or is he saying that we need to gain a testimony of the prophet through prayer rather than blindly following?

The reason I ask this is because the first interpretation seems to suggest the prophet is only sometime speaking on behalf of God and I find that very destructive. I think this quote has often lead people to have a soft approach to the prophets words.

But what do you like?

President Young is teaching us a very simple but all-important gospel principle, and it’s not necessary to have engage in lengthy explanations in order to fathom his meaning. President Young is saying that all faithful members of the Church of Jesus Christ, no matter what their callings and roles in the Church organization might be, have the sacred opportunity to possess the exact same spirit of revelation as possessed by the ordained prophets, seers and revelators who stand at head of the Church. It’s a call for each man, woman, and even every receptive child, to become prophets of God within their own rightful spheres of spiritual responsibility and influence. It’s a sacred invitation to receive the same spiritual confirmations enjoyed by the members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve as they unitedly serve the Lord and the members of the Church.

Edited by Jersey Boy
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