2 hour church ? why so happy


estowife
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In April,  the changes to replace the home and visiting teaching programs were announced, and now this change in bringing the religious service more into our homes. These are two major changes to what we have come to identify as our church as we have known it.  There are many who may find these changes unsettling, and they can cause concern. When the announcement of the 2 hour meetings were announced, I recalled a statement by Neal A. Maxwell, reflecting on the societal changes where the rising generation has many structures absent that were there before. I think that the same idea applies to these crecent changes. Wrote Elder Maxwell , ”Those supporting influences, in many respects, will fall away like so much scaffolding. Then we will see who stands, both on holy ground and on holy principles!”

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1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Conversely, some of these may be the exact folk for who the change was made, in that the change in focus and drive might shake them from complacency.

Hopefully so. Blanket assumptioms are never a a wise idea, which is why I prefaced my comment with “I don’t know if I’m correct” But speaking only for myself, I can affirmatively say I would never want anyone ito get the idea that I’m glad to spend less time together with my fellow laborers in the truth.

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1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

But, of course, what drives someone to minister? Changing a program? No. Testimony. What brings testimony? Study, ponder, and prayer.

Point being, the home study intent is to drive more study, ponder, and prayer, which should, in theory, lead to better ministering.

Completely agree, we should be seeing more members who are "truly converted" and experience true conversion continually. The scripture that comes to my mind is "can you feel so now"? If we act in all diligence we will feel so now more regularly, and I believe our children will receive a great benefit to this as they become truly converted earlier in their years rather than on the mission.

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I'm not celebrating the shortened hours, just taking it in stride. But I can understand the happiness others have because of the extra time they can spend with their children. Sometimes Sunday is the only day of the week they have together as a family.  

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7 hours ago, estowife said:

So I am born & raised LDS & continue to be active, married in the temple (still married though not happily) & raise a family in the gospel. I always felt that religion is not my thing, not remotely interested in it, don't enjoy it & If I wasn't born into it, certainly wouldn't go looking for it...

So naturally to me the 2 hour church announcement is great news, sitting through 3 hours (or more) of church on a sunday has to be the worst 3 hours of my week!

But I am curious.... every response I have seen on various social media platforms have all been similarly pleased, excited & celebratory, nobody is disappointed to be losing an hour of church.

So I would like to know why everybody is so pleased, did people secretly hate 3 hours of church, was it just as horrendous for everybody else as it felt for me,

just curious as to why everyone is high five-ing & celebrating etc, what are your reasons

Thanks

Dear estowife...... I'm sorry your not happy, but I am happy you say your raising your family in the gospel. Sounds like Satan is trying really hard to destroy your testimony little, by little. But you still have enough truth inside to make sure you raise your family in the gospel.

 As one mom to another- build on that bit of testimony you have left, even if you are not remotely interested in religion....... try.  

Satan is so strong these days, doing what he can to destroy marriages, families and individuals.

 Just try estowife ..... please just try. You never know how it can help.

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I’m hoping to have more time to work on family history. I just pray that I, personally, will make good use of that time and not disappoint my Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ by squandering it. I have good intentions. I will need to be on guard to stay on top of my good intentions and remain committed. 

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In my social media circles, I've come across many, many people having difficult feelings over this. Many of them have shared their feelings, and in all honesty they have some very good reasons for their sadness. Some look forward to that extra time with adults, others want the extra primary time for their children, others have mixed-faith homes and need help in teaching their children the gospel. Some are just set in their ways but still love the tradition of three hours.

I'm still on Team "Just tell me what the schedule is", but this morning I found myself a little surprised to be feeling a bit sad. I think it might be largely a farewell to an era of church. I've never had much argument with the three hours. I've also found some good reasons to look forward to the new schedule:

I am really pleased with the call to take it upon ourselves to use the new material. I've cavorted on the internet with deeply Christian families who don't attend church at all but have their own religious traditions and rituals in their homes, and while I think the community of church is crucial I admired parts of those family-driven faiths. Sometimes just taking the family to church was "easy", pawning us all off on the local ward building to teach us the gospel.

As for time, well, as a working mom who has sometimes felt saddened over how hectic Sundays are, it's nice to have that extra hour. On a tangent I've been exercising a few boundaries with my parental family and that includes using the occasional Sunday to just be with my own immediate family. To connect that back in, this drop of an hour helps. 

 

Edited by Backroads
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4 hours ago, Jari said:

Those supporting influences, in many respects, will fall away like so much scaffolding. Then we will see who stands, both on holy ground and on holy principles!

Are you suggesting that these changes are part of separating the wheat from the tares?

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I was just speaking to my non-member sister about some LDS folks giving the side eye to anyone who came out for a 2 hr meeting before it was announced; as if you couldn't be a good Mormon if you weren't willing to go to 3 hrs of church every Sunday, and do your calling, and do visiting teaching (before they changed it), and do the service projects that come up each month, and help clean the church.

I frequently found it hard to go to all 3 hours - and I used to love doing so as a new convert. But, back then I was faculty with some free time during the week and my son living with me. Now that I am by myself and in a demanding 40 hr job, I just can't hack it every week. I try to go to Sacrament meeting because I think I need it, but there are Sundays when it is just too much after a full week, the house, and another full week coming up. It seems so much easier for people with more time (we have a lot of students and stay at home moms) or at least two adults to share the load. Maybe I'm just getting older. 

I didn't like leaving after Sacrament Meeting, but I did. Now I hope I can attend the full block more faithfully. 

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Rather than look at the change as a loss, I choose to view it as a gain.

We’ve been reminded that in order to navigate mortality we need to be able to receive personal revelation.

Another hour to spend each Sabbath day in study, prayer, pondering in order to foster personal revelation.  I am grateful for that gift.

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I really enjoy my time at church on Sundays, especially Sunday School, so I'm somewhat disappointed with the change, but that's my problem to deal with. The change is something I've long been expected, I see it as a big step towards an outcome where families, or at biggest, small groups of families, meeting in homes become the focus of our worship, rather than hundreds of people meeting in a chapel.

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I'm a little disappointed. My daughter is extremely disappointed that she won't get to go to Young Womens every week. And I think it's a tragedy that we are losing the opportunity to sing opening & closing hymns in Relief Society, but I would think that. Mostly I'm just curious how this is all going to play out in our local ward. I'm really hoping ward and stake leaders won't see this as more opportunity to schedule random meetings. With the emphasis on being "home centered," hopefully the risk of that is minimal.

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3 hours ago, let’s roll said:

Rather than look at the change as a loss, I choose to view it as a gain.

We’ve been reminded that in order to navigate mortality we need to be able to receive personal revelation.

Another hour to spend each Sabbath day in study, prayer, pondering in order to foster personal revelation.  I am grateful for that gift.

My knee-jerk reaction to all this is “were the 13 other hours of home time not enough? Does adding that 14th hour really change all that much?Why couldn’t we just hold on to the 3 hour block and have the church announce that they are introducing a home study plan?”

All this being said, I’m not one of the members who struggled with the 3 hour block. I’m pretty cookie cutter when it comes to the saints. I’m absolutely ecstatic for the new curriculum :) 

Edited by Fether
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5 minutes ago, Fether said:

My knee-jerk reaction to all this is “were the 13 other hours of home time not enough? Does adding that 14th hour really change all that much?Why couldn’t we just hold on to the 3 hour block and have the church announce that they are introducing a home study plan?”

Didn't President Nelson specifically mention members who live far from meetinghouses and thus probably don't have that many other hours in regards to this announcement?

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6 minutes ago, Fether said:

Does adding that 14th hour really change all that much?

Knee-jerk-wise, it feels like it doesn't on the home front, but on the church front it changes things dramatically. But I think that must be the point, dramatically change the church front to shake things up and get people to think about and focus on the home front, where without the shake up they might not.

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8 minutes ago, Fether said:

My knee-jerk reaction to all this is “were the 13 other hours of home time not enough? Does adding that 14th hour really change all that much?Why couldn’t we just hold on to the 3 hour block and have the church announce that they are introducing a home study plan?”

All this being said, I’m not one of the members who struggled with the 3 hour block. I’m pretty cookie cutter when it comes to the saints. I’m absolutely ecstatic for the new curriculum :) 

And I suppose my knee jerk reaction to those who choose to second guess prophetic guidance is that 13 hours apparently wasn’t enough.

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Just as babies are intended to grow up to be parents, If the end goal of the plan of progression is to become like Christ (i.e. become Gods), then how can that occur except there be a gradual decline in dependency of individuals and families upon the parent church?  As I see it, the shift in venue from the church house to the home for some gospel study, is yet one more in a long line of weening and growth strategies in the diefication process.

And, just as there was a risk of failure in coming to earth, there is likewise a risk that many families will squander the greater independence, just as they have with FHE, though the potential rewards for those who wisely utilize the time may be profound..

Said another way, just as there is an inverse relationship between the family as the foundation of society verses the size of secular centralized government, so too is the  family as the fundamental structure of the eternal gospel and the size or extent of influence of a centralized church.

I see the order of the church eventually coming full circle, from patriarchal order (Old Testament), to ecclesiastical order (New Testament), to eventual patriarchal order (New and Everlasting Covenant).

But, I could be wrong.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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3 minutes ago, wenglund said:

Just as babies are intended to grow up to be parents, If the end goal of the plan of progression is to become like Christ (i.e. become Gods), then how can that occur except there be a gradual decline in dependency of individuals and families upon the parent church? As I see it, the shift in venue from the church house to the home for some gospel study, is yet one more in a long line of weening and growth strategies in the diefication process.

It seems to me that the flaw in this theory is that it implies that all those who lived and died prior to this change are somehow potentially worse off in the eternities. Like those living now have a better shot at dieification. It's the same problem as implying that those who faithfully lived the law of Moses when it was the law have a lesser shot at things than those who lived faithfully following Christ's teachings after Him.

I'm not saying this by way of argument, because I don't know that I fully understand it. But I trust that those who faithfully did their home teaching are just as likely to have their reward as those who now faithfully do their ministering.

It seems, as I think on it, that the change is more related to the times we live in than directly being the better way to exalt people.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

And I suppose my knee jerk reaction to those who choose to second guess prophetic guidance is that 13 hours apparently wasn’t enough.

And you are right to do so 👍

Im not second guessing the prophetic counseling. I am very excited for the change! I love it :)

My only complaint is the mindset that “now that church is only 2 hours, I can have a gospel study with my family!”

As if you can only have one or the other. 3 hours of church and no family study or 2 hours of church and family study.

But I’ll admit that my response to your comment wasn’t really warranted, I thought you had said 

3 hours ago, let’s roll said:

AN hour to spend each Sabbath day in study, prayer, pondering in order to foster personal revelation.  I am grateful for that gift.

My bad

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8 minutes ago, Fether said:

And you are right to do so 👍

Im not second guessing the prophetic counseling. I am very excited for the change! I love it :)

My only complaint is the mindset that “now that church is only 2 hours, I can have a gospel study with my family!”

As if you can only have one or the other. 3 hours of church and no family study or 2 hours of church and family study.

But I’ll admit that my response to your comment wasn’t really warranted, I thought you had said 

My bad

No worries.  And I hope my reply didn’t come across as being caustic (it wasn’t meant as such) but rather my characterization of the goal of being a seeker with a hunger for Divine guidance and a heart willing to embrace and follow that guidance, even if it means leaving behind some things we have in the past enjoyed or valued.

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The reduction to a two hour block dramatically increases the number of wards that can share a building.  Also the extra hour should mean no more lunch time at Church for the little ones.  Nursery and Primary workers should be less worn out.  In theory, primary should be even more able to be eclectic enough to keep the kids attentive.  In theory it should also be easier to have people stay after for other activities.

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