Vort

Maybe the best BJJ match I have ever seen

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This is a rematch from about 2013 between two very high-level Brazilian jiu jitsu practitioners, Royler Gracie (Brazilian, obviously, from the Gracie family that invented BJJ) and Eddie Bravo (an American). They had competed ten years earlier, when Bravo shocked the BJJ world by submitting -- submitting! -- Gracie. So this is a long-anticipated rematch. Bravo actually outweighed Gracie, though Gracie looks waaaay more athletic. I naively assumed that Gracie would win, eventually if not quickly. It appears Bravo thought Gracie might win, too. The result was one of the most amazing BJJ matches I've ever seen. (Not that I'm a connoisseur of grappling matches or even know that much about it. I know just enough to be ignorant.)

**SPOILER**

(Since this match took place five years ago, it seems strange to put a spoiler warning. But there you go.)

Bravo dominates this match, almost from the start. I was not very happy when he started out by pulling guard, but his almost complete control of the match from the very outset is stunning. Since he didn't submit Gracie within the 20 minute time period, it was called a draw under the agreed-upon rules. But Bravo's domination is undeniable. The guy is an absolute wizard. I know just enough about BJJ to be blown away by Bravo's performance. Seeing some skinny stoner dominate one of the greatest jiu jitsu practitioners in the world is amazing.

Of course, Bravo is no flash in the pan. He is well-known in the BJJ world, and owns and runs Tenth Planet Jiu Jitsu, a famous no-gi BJJ place that teaches Bravo's own style. His original school was in (I think), LA and he has schools all over the world now. If I were younger, richer, had more free time, and lived near one, I would probably train there, despite the obvious values mismatch. The guy really is amazing.

 

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Going immediately on guard is very smart for this type of match.  This won't work on MMA where there's striking involved and this won't work on points-matches.  The idea is - Eddie is not confident that he can take down Hoyler without expending too much gas, so he pulled guard instead.  Think chess - immediately took control of Hoyler's offense piece (the right leg), while in the position that is fuel efficient to power through 20 minutes.  This allowed him to dominate for most of the match.  Hoyler was amazing on defense but was never able to regain control of that leg to gain advantage.

Don't know if I mentioned it here.  My son won first place in his last tournament on 2 brackets.  All his matches ended in submission.

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IMO, the concession stand people, the announcer, the guy who runs the lights, and everyone else who gets paid win at these things.

Edited by NeuroTypical

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7 minutes ago, anatess2 said:
9 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Um... 24 minutes later...who was the winner?

Both of them.  Bravo wins best offense Gracie wins best defense.  Now they can move on to the evening gown competition.

anatess is too generous to Royler Gracie. Technically, there was no winner, because it wasn't a points match and no one tapped. Submission victory only. It was a draw. But watching the match, Eddie Bravo was a python who had Gracie in his coils almost from the start and just never let go. How Gracie didn't tap to that heel hook in the final minutes (or how he managed to walk off the mat afterward instead of being carted off in three different pieces) I will never understand.

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33 minutes ago, Vort said:

anatess is too generous to Royler Gracie. Technically, there was no winner, because it wasn't a points match and no one tapped. Submission victory only. It was a draw. But watching the match, Eddie Bravo was a python who had Gracie in his coils almost from the start and just never let go. How Gracie didn't tap to that heel hook in the final minutes (or how he managed to walk off the mat afterward instead of being carted off in three different pieces) I will never understand.

You can't heel lock a Gracie.  You gotta choke him unconscious.  Or gas him out which takes a whole lot longer than 20 minutes.

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2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

You can't heel lock a Gracie.

Then you can shred his knee and destroy his ankle. If Royler refused to tap, then I'm not sure why Bravo didn't do so.

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42 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Because he couldn't.

I expect this is true. Bravo has never depended on strength; he's a pure technician. I remember him once saying that he put a big, muscular guy in a rear naked choke and couldn't choke him out. His weenie little arms just didn't have the strength against this really muscular neck. So he started exercising enough that he could pull off the submissions.

I don't know, though. How strong can a human ankle be? I'm thinking that Royler kept Bravo's left hand from pushing on the ankle. If not for that, maybe he would have pulled it off.

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7 minutes ago, Vort said:

I expect this is true. Bravo has never depended on strength; he's a pure technician. I remember him once saying that he put a big, muscular guy in a rear naked choke and couldn't choke him out. His weenie little arms just didn't have the strength against this really muscular neck. So he started exercising enough that he could pull off the submissions.

I don't know, though. How strong can a human ankle be? I'm thinking that Royler kept Bravo's left hand from pushing on the ankle. If not for that, maybe he would have pulled it off.

That's the thing about the Gracies... they are very limber and flexible.  Royce is a very small guy - smaller than Royler - but you can't pin him because he's like stretchy-man.  Royce, in my opinion, has better BJJ technique than Royler but any one of those brothers are hard to submit with joint submissions.

By the way, in the post fight commentary, Royce said he met Bravo for the first time after the match... while Bravo was puking his guts out after expending every single ounce of his strength going for that heel submission!

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7 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

That's the thing about the Gracies... they are very limber and flexible.

No kidding. Bravo had Gracie in some crazy position that essentially had Gracie doing the full-on splits. Didn't seem to bother Gracie very much. Unbelievable. It would have torn me in half.

7 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

By the way, in the post fight commentary, Royce said he met Bravo for the first time after the match... while Bravo was puking his guts out after expending every single ounce of his strength going for that heel submission!

Yeah, I might be wrong about what would have happened if that fight had continued. If Bravo doesn't submit Gracie within a few more minutes, he likely gasses.

Having said that, Bravo controlled the match almost from the outset. Positionally, Gracie looked to be on top more; but from a control perspective, Bravo just dominated. I believe that Gracie literally did not know what was going on. Remember the reposition? (Stupid thing, but whatever.) Gracie wouldn't get back into the position he was in. Why not? Being a jerk? Going for a positional advantage? I don't think so. I think he simply didn't realize what Bravo was doing, how he was controlling Gracie's leg with that wraparound hooklike thing. (Don't get lost in my technical jargon here.)

Edited by Vort

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3 hours ago, Vort said:

No kidding. Bravo had Gracie in some crazy position that essentially had Gracie doing the full-on splits. Didn't seem to bother Gracie very much. Unbelievable. It would have torn me in half.

Yeah, I might be wrong about what would have happened if that fight had continued. If Bravo doesn't submit Gracie within a few more minutes, he likely gasses.

Having said that, Bravo controlled the match almost from the outset. Positionally, Gracie looked to be on top more; but from a control perspective, Bravo just dominated. I believe that Gracie literally did not know what was going on. Remember the reposition? (Stupid thing, but whatever.) Gracie wouldn't get back into the position he was in. Why not? Being a jerk? Going for a positional advantage? I don't think so. I think he simply didn't realize what Bravo was doing, how he was controlling Gracie's leg with that wraparound hooklike thing. (Don't get lost in my technical jargon here.)

Bravo's half leg guard was like an anchor dragging Gracie down and making him dependent on Bravo's position.  It's super amazing how he did that!  And he had that lock for most of the 20 minutes.  It really crippled Gracie by some significant amount.  He tried to pull his posted leg into side control but then that's how Bravo ends up with the split position (I know, right???  OUCH!) so he can't do it.  It really put Gracie on a major dilemma.  My husband thinks instead of being bothered by that locked leg, Gracie should have just ignored that leg and focused the entire match to upper body control, getting Americanas or chokes as he has the body length and flexibility to try to pull one.  But it was probably not possible with the way Bravo had him pinned.  He needed that leg.  But man, I have to say, though, even with that disadvantage, Gracie still had some "whoa mama!" moments where he almost got Bravo in trouble!

I don't think there's a "maybe" on that best BJJ match.  I think it is one of THE BEST BJJ matches.  My favorite MMA match is Dillishaw vs Barrera and Rousey vs Holmes and they didn't involve much BJJ so it's cool to see super awesome executions of pure BJJ.

By the way, did you see the McGregor/Khabib brawl?  That was CRAZY! 

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6 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

By the way, did you see the McGregor/Khabib brawl?  That was CRAZY!

Just news replays. Disgusting. Dana White has made the UFC into the WWE. Idiot. I've largely given up on the UFC, and don't really watch much MMA any more. I've always hated the tough-guy attitude; the WWE circus atmosphere adds another element of extreme distaste, such that the product just isn't worth the time to me. As my brother would say, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

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40 minutes ago, Vort said:

Just news replays. Disgusting. Dana White has made the UFC into the WWE. Idiot. I've largely given up on the UFC, and don't really watch much MMA any more. I've always hated the tough-guy attitude; the WWE circus atmosphere adds another element of extreme distaste, such that the product just isn't worth the time to me. As my brother would say, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

I feel the same way now.  I watched that one for the Waterson vs Herrig which was pretty decent.  McGregor's antics is just getting too old and too stupid.  And Dana White encourages it the same way he encouraged Rousey's stupidity.  Rousey's path to stardom is a testament to the circus and I was very glad when her reign ended.  But the circus seems to continue to roll.  Sigh.

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