Morgaine

Newlywed on the brink of Divorce...

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I'm nowhere close to being a psychiatric expert. However, the OP says her husband is bipolar and is not taking medication. So, I wonder--has medication been prescribed? If so, my counsel to the husband would be to take it. God has called us to be sober-minded. The natural state during bipolar manic times is one of abnormal exhilaration, positivity, sensuality, etc. It is very similar to a drug high, from what I understand. However, since drugs are not involved, the bipolar individual feels justified enjoying those "can-do" feelings. The bipolar manic state is not part of the creative order, but is a disorder that came with the corruption of nature. It feels wonderful, and treatment medicine takes that away. However, it does so by bringing reality to the mind. Normal thinking feels empty to the bipolar mind. It feels numb and lacking. It's not though. It's reality. My guess is that if, out of obedience to God and for love of family, the husband will submit to medicine, his other struggles (including porn) will reduce substantially. It's a hard cross to bear, but submitting to prescribed medicine is probably essential to his recovery, restoration, and reconciliation.

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2 hours ago, Morgaine said:

 I've been supportive through all of his up's and down's (he's also bipolar, no medication)

This too was a big flag for me.  Not because being bipolar is anyone's fault, but because we are charged with taking care of ourselves.  Many of the issues described in the OP (yes-no-yes attitude, on-and-off addictions, lack of commitment) seem very tied to uncontrolled bipolar-- swinging one way and then the other.  Yes, I know that medication takes away the high's of bipolar, and that feel less.  But it instead centers a person, so they can be steady for other and themselves--- I bet he's not happy with the current situation he's in.  I would definitely urge him taking care of himself in that way.  

Also, for sure keep going and working on the martial counseling.  Counseling and marriage are both work and take a lot of effort.  Learn how to be the best person YOU can be, not only for your marriage, but also for yourself. 

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Untreated Bi-Polar disabilities are a giant difficulty to go through.  It can be tough on a spouse married to someone who suffers from such a malady.  An addiction to Pornography is not unexpected.  It's actually fortunate if that is ALL they are addicted to (alcohol and other items can also be very tempting and are common).  In the same way he goes through ups and downs emotionally and mentally, it is possible he goes through ups and downs in his feelings towards you.  That makes it very difficult.

Counseling is a good thing and I am glad you are going to it.  I would say getting treatment for bi-polar disorder would also be important.  Convincing someone who is suffering form such a handicap can be difficult to impossible.  Hopefully he can read the scriptures. 

I'm not a marriage counselor so what I say next may not be a good idea. 

I would say to continue to encourage him to read and study scriptures with you.  He should focus his study on loyalty to one's spouse, how each makes the other whole, and how the Lord did not make marriage for divorce, but to get closer to each other and the Lord.

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Porn is a huge issue.  But I would dare bet that the bipolar issue is the bigger of the two.  I highly doubt that the porn issue can be addressed before the bipolar is.

I might add one thing.  Fighting is bad.  Fighting never leads to positive outcomes.  It is natural to fight.  I fought throughout most of my marriage.  The results were never good.  It took me 25 years to really understand that.  Do you find yourself using phrases like "you never do this"  or "you never do that"??  Those are horrible questions that lead to nothing good.

It will take some significant effort on your part, but you got to get that emotion in check.  When you need to have a discussion with him, it needs to be from a standpoint of love and not anger.

Also, don't base your actions on what he does.  Keep giving your 110%.  It sucks rocks to be in that position, but you got to keep chugging along.

Honestly, I don't think this is really a porn issue.  I think there are some deeper psychological things going on here.  Many many men watch porn and it doesn't make them want to be with other women.  Of course the porn will need to be addressed as well, but him having fantasies with being with other women even though he enjoys a good sex life with you is just not natural.

So please don't take his actions personal.  I highly doubt it has hardly anything if anything at all to do with you.

Try to be kind to him as you guys try to figure things out.  I hate to say it, but how would Christ treat your husband?  It is not easy to treat people that are doing us wrong with love.  But it is the right way to handle it.

 

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@Morgaine I am so sorry. I was married to a man for 24 years who had a lot of issues, refused to get treatment and eventually became violent. I wish that I had left when he refused to get treatment. I would get counselling yourself. Go see the bishop. This is not the time to be brave and try to struggle alone. If your family and friends don’t know what you are going through tell them. You need their support. 

Have you put your name down at the temple? 

Good luck! 

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On 10/19/2018 at 9:14 AM, Morgaine said:

Thank you all for your input. 

He refuses to take medication anymore and completely believes that he’s not bipolar. So it makes things harder with this mindset. It’s hard seeing him bounce between the Godly, amazing person that I got to know and the sex crazy, secretive person that I’ve been dealing with. 

If counseling does not your problems, move on. 

 

Its just a waste of time to do anything else. 

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Personally I never advise for divorce unless there is Abuse going on, a spouse is actually cheating on their loved with someone else, or an equally grave thing is happening.  Marriage is a major decision (that many don't consider so serious when they first get married) and not something to toss away in the wind.

That they are not married in the temple makes the vows less serious (in my mind) and unless they want to spend eternity together, they may wish to avoid being sealed in the temple.  However, marriage is not something that should so easily be tossed away.

I am old fashioned though and probably decades (if not centuries) out of date in my way of thinking.

Even Brigham Young would grant divorces very easily (much more easily than it is to obtain a divorce today in the US) if a wife was not happy with her husband.  It would be easy to ask and petition and he would grant it very rapidly to those who did not want to be married.  (It is rumored that he made it so easy that Utah was considered a Divorce state where those who could not get divorce elsewhere could go to Utah and get it granted post haste).  In that light, the church, at least back then, did not want unhappy marriages affecting their belief and faith in the Lord.

Nevertheless, I am old fashioned in how I view Marriage and think divorce should always be the absolute last option. 

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16 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Nevertheless, I am old fashioned in how I view Marriage and think divorce should always be the absolute last option. 

JJ, this is not old fashioned.  This is how it should be.  So, more like above the whims of what's fashionable.

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@JohnsonJones You are not old fashioned at all, I agree with all that you said. The only reason we didn't have a temple marriage was because my whole family are non-members, and I wanted them to be fully involved. So we opted for a civil ceremony. If we had married in another country, it would've been mandatory to get a civil marriage before a temple one. But our vows and commitment were definitely not less serious. 

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What surprises me is that he’s not just fantasizing about adultery, but writing them down.  This tells me:

1.  He’s entertaining the thoughts, for lengthy periods of time and making ZERO effort to suppress them and

2.  Mental health issues aside—I’m sorry, but he’s either just plain dumb, or else he wants the OP to find his writings because he’s playing some kind of bizarro mind game with her.

I’ve done enough divorce law to know there are always two sides, and so don’t want to be too harsh to a guy who can’t defend himself here.  But at the same time—counseling is for people who want to be fixed.  This guy doesn’t sound like he wants to be fixed.  He sounds like a serial philanderer at heart, and IF that is the case  then the question isn’t really whether the marriage will dissolve; it’s simply a matter of whether the OP is going to come out of it with a VD and a couple of kids.

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I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this trial in your marriage.  However, it is better that it was caught earlier on than later, especially before children may enter the picture.  I am just thinking how I imagine you would not want your children raised with that kind of influence.  Having babies, daughters and sons with a dad that is focusing and "addicted' to those behaviors is damaging to his spirit  , your spirit and will be to their spirits, as well.  He might even, act out things, heaven forbid, on the venerable.  Perhaps that isn't something to be too concerned about for now, but you probably want to make sure that that doesn't become an issue for the time being, you have enough to deal with right now.

    It sounds to me that this husband of yours is not repentant.  What is it that attracted you to him?  Did you know he had these kind of tendencies before marriage?  Sometimes things are hidden before or a person doesn't realize the magnitude of a problem until later.  Sometimes people think that marriage will solve the problem.  Forgive me if you already answered those questions, I did read your post last night, but just started responding to it now.  Anyhow, bless your heart, I feel for your situation.  First of all, regardless of anything else, your worth is more precious than gold, more precious then rubies, you are  a virtuous woman, you are trying, you are loved  by your Father in Heaven, the Savior too, and I am sure many others. Do you have family nearby that are supportive?  And friends?  How about your bishop?  Will your husband talk to the marriage counselor and is there any signs that he wants to repent?  I am sorry if I came across as harsh.  It just sounds from what you have written, that he needs to have a major change of heart.  It can be hard to fathom why some men, especially once they have had the gospel, would delve into such things, especially the way you are describing.  I have had a friend  (she died of cancer recently,), but she had to divorce her husband when he started going to lets just say an unholy establishment, after other problems with pornography, etc.  They have 4 daughters.  It was an awful situation, and they were LDS.  I went to the funeral, and heard he was trying to get custody of his girls, and her family had been taking care of them.  I don't know what the outcome was, but I prayed for those girls and for him and her side of the family.  It was a situation my friend couldn't control.  She was trying to protect her daughters.   They had  a loving environment with relatives  and anyways, you could just feel so much love at that funeral and concern for the well being of her children.

 Your husband is not honoring his priesthood right now.  Was he ever honoring his priesthood.  What do you want in a man?  Did you ever have a list of what you wanted?  If your goal is an eternal marriage and family, which I believe in your heart it is, what do you think willl make that happen?  Have you prayed to ask the Lord what direction you should take?  Sometimes praying and then acting upon doing the best we can do, like seeing a bishop, going to marriage counseling, living our lives,  helps us see what truly will and will not work.  Will  he ever be willing to see a therapist?  Is it worth waiting a day, a week, a month, a year?   Could you get pregnant in that time?  What problems will that bring?  Raising a child in that household or joint custody down the line,  hopefully no abuse or neglect?  As far as I am concerned, when a man uses pornography, and this fantasizing, he is being unfaithful to you,  in the spirit of the law, at least, and it is a form of abuse,   Its emotionally abusive, at the very least, and probably has other reprucussions, as well.  Is this the spirit of a Christ -centered home?  Please don't get me wrong, no home is perfect, no marriage is perfect, no family is perfect.  And you are not alone in this struggle.  Unfortunately, it is a problem in society.  In our ward recently, we had a visitor come speak to us from an institution that works with teens who struggle with this problem. The church has programs to help adults and teens overcome this addictive  behavior.  There are also programs for overcoming other problems, perhaps seeing an LDS based mental health professional is a goal, that can be prayed for. Sometimes praying for things opens the way up.  I once had a problem, our car window was broken.  My husband wouldn't get it fixed for 3 months, even though we had access to resources, even a good deal.  I prayed about it more after trying to keep telling him we needed to fix it.  Finally, he gave in.  But if it doesn't work, or if you can't deal with it that long, and no one will think any less of you for it, you may want to ask yourself:     What would be the worst possible thing if there was a separation?   Sometimes it may give you space to think, feel the spirit, not have to worry about putting up with those things that make it so hard.  Your worth is not dependent on something so superficial.  You have so much potential, so much goodness, you have talents, and abilities and there are resources out there for you.  There are other valiant women who have gotten through some tough things that they never thought they would,  amazing women.  Perhaps the Lord will lead you to the help you need at this time in your life if you ask for it.  Sometimes life gives us things we didn't anticipate,  but remember, the Lord doesn't want you to be trapped, he can help you try to resolve things, help your husband if he wants to be helped, but your integrity of your soul is important regardless of his decisions, ok?  Just remember that.  I will be praying for you and for him.  

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On 10/20/2018 at 4:36 AM, Sunday21 said:

@Morgaine I am so sorry. I was married to a man for 24 years who had a lot of issues, refused to get treatment and eventually became violent. I wish that I had left when he refused to get treatment. I would get counselling yourself. Go see the bishop. This is not the time to be brave and try to struggle alone. If your family and friends don’t know what you are going through tell them. You need their support. 

Have you put your name down at the temple? 

Good luck! 

Thank you for words. How do I put my name down at the temple? 

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6 hours ago, jewels8 said:

I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this trial in your marriage.  However, it is better that it was caught earlier on than later, especially before children may enter the picture.  I am just thinking how I imagine you would not want your children raised with that kind of influence.  Having babies, daughters and sons with a dad that is focusing and "addicted' to those behaviors is damaging to his spirit  , your spirit and will be to their spirits, as well.  He might even, act out things, heaven forbid, on the venerable.  Perhaps that isn't something to be too concerned about for now, but you probably want to make sure that that doesn't become an issue for the time being, you have enough to deal with right now.

    It sounds to me that this husband of yours is not repentant.  What is it that attracted you to him?  Did you know he had these kind of tendencies before marriage?  Sometimes things are hidden before or a person doesn't realize the magnitude of a problem until later.  Sometimes people think that marriage will solve the problem.  Forgive me if you already answered those questions, I did read your post last night, but just started responding to it now.  Anyhow, bless your heart, I feel for your situation.  First of all, regardless of anything else, your worth is more precious than gold, more precious then rubies, you are  a virtuous woman, you are trying, you are loved  by your Father in Heaven, the Savior too, and I am sure many others. Do you have family nearby that are supportive?  And friends?  How about your bishop?  Will your husband talk to the marriage counselor and is there any signs that he wants to repent?  I am sorry if I came across as harsh.  It just sounds from what you have written, that he needs to have a major change of heart.  It can be hard to fathom why some men, especially once they have had the gospel, would delve into such things, especially the way you are describing.  I have had a friend  (she died of cancer recently,), but she had to divorce her husband when he started going to lets just say an unholy establishment, after other problems with pornography, etc.  They have 4 daughters.  It was an awful situation, and they were LDS.  I went to the funeral, and heard he was trying to get custody of his girls, and her family had been taking care of them.  I don't know what the outcome was, but I prayed for those girls and for him and her side of the family.  It was a situation my friend couldn't control.  She was trying to protect her daughters.   They had  a loving environment with relatives  and anyways, you could just feel so much love at that funeral and concern for the well being of her children.

 Your husband is not honoring his priesthood right now.  Was he ever honoring his priesthood.  What do you want in a man?  Did you ever have a list of what you wanted?  If your goal is an eternal marriage and family, which I believe in your heart it is, what do you think willl make that happen?  Have you prayed to ask the Lord what direction you should take?  Sometimes praying and then acting upon doing the best we can do, like seeing a bishop, going to marriage counseling, living our lives,  helps us see what truly will and will not work.  Will  he ever be willing to see a therapist?  Is it worth waiting a day, a week, a month, a year?   Could you get pregnant in that time?  What problems will that bring?  Raising a child in that household or joint custody down the line,  hopefully no abuse or neglect?  As far as I am concerned, when a man uses pornography, and this fantasizing, he is being unfaithful to you,  in the spirit of the law, at least, and it is a form of abuse,   Its emotionally abusive, at the very least, and probably has other reprucussions, as well.  Is this the spirit of a Christ -centered home?  Please don't get me wrong, no home is perfect, no marriage is perfect, no family is perfect.  And you are not alone in this struggle.  Unfortunately, it is a problem in society.  In our ward recently, we had a visitor come speak to us from an institution that works with teens who struggle with this problem. The church has programs to help adults and teens overcome this addictive  behavior.  There are also programs for overcoming other problems, perhaps seeing an LDS based mental health professional is a goal, that can be prayed for. Sometimes praying for things opens the way up.  I once had a problem, our car window was broken.  My husband wouldn't get it fixed for 3 months, even though we had access to resources, even a good deal.  I prayed about it more after trying to keep telling him we needed to fix it.  Finally, he gave in.  But if it doesn't work, or if you can't deal with it that long, and no one will think any less of you for it, you may want to ask yourself:     What would be the worst possible thing if there was a separation?   Sometimes it may give you space to think, feel the spirit, not have to worry about putting up with those things that make it so hard.  Your worth is not dependent on something so superficial.  You have so much potential, so much goodness, you have talents, and abilities and there are resources out there for you.  There are other valiant women who have gotten through some tough things that they never thought they would,  amazing women.  Perhaps the Lord will lead you to the help you need at this time in your life if you ask for it.  Sometimes life gives us things we didn't anticipate,  but remember, the Lord doesn't want you to be trapped, he can help you try to resolve things, help your husband if he wants to be helped, but your integrity of your soul is important regardless of his decisions, ok?  Just remember that.  I will be praying for you and for him.  

Thank you so much! I do have supportive family and a couple of close friends, but it means a lot to have like-minded folks like all of you to help me out in this hard time. I knew him for many years before this, so I assumed I knew him really well. He always took his duties and the Gospel seriously, but would on and off struggle with curiosity to worldly things. I guess you don't really know a person until you live with them; and we never lived together prior to marriage. He says that I'm not entirely innocent in this because I knew what I was getting into, but in a way I didn't. I would've never signed up for this. But we've been going to counseling it he seems to be getting a bit better, and I'm becoming more patient. 

We'll see what happens. I definitely believe divorce should always be the absolute last option. 

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2 minutes ago, Morgaine said:

 I guess you don't really know a person until you live with them; and we never lived together prior to marriage.

NONE of your problems are caused because you didn't live fornicate before marriage.  And NONE of your issues would have been solved/avoided if you had fornicated before marriage.  Don't let anyone sell you the lie that you are like a shoe that needs to be "tried on" before making a commitment to.  

 

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33 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

NONE of your problems are caused because you didn't live fornicate before marriage.  And NONE of your issues would have been solved/avoided if you had fornicated before marriage.  Don't let anyone sell you the lie that you are like a shoe that needs to be "tried on" before making a commitment to.  

 

Don't worry. I am totally against fornication and cohabitation before marriage :) that is a great deceit that exists in my generation and other generations before me, that living together is the way to go. 

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5 minutes ago, Morgaine said:

Don't worry. I am totally against fornication and cohabitation before marriage :) that is a great deceit that exists in my generation and other generations before me, that living together is the way to go. 

Awesome.  You sound about the same age as me, and I've heard the junk line of "well if you'd lived together before this wouldn't happen...".  It's total junk and I wanted to make sure that you weren't believe it.

Edited by Jane_Doe

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On 10/17/2018 at 10:22 AM, Morgaine said:

 Pornography has been an issue with him on and off, even after he went to the bishop about it (I pretty much had to push him to go).

He should want to take care of this for himself not because you're pushing him.  This is nonsense he is a big boy and knows what he needs to do. 

On 10/17/2018 at 10:22 AM, Morgaine said:

all the household chores and duties are on me, paying bills, emotional support, etc.

Did you marry a man or a little boy who needs his mommy to take care of him.  By doing everything you're enabling him.

On 10/17/2018 at 10:22 AM, Morgaine said:

(he's also bipolar, no medication),

Honestly, what are you still doing there?

On 10/17/2018 at 10:22 AM, Morgaine said:

most importantly through the porn addiction 

See my first answer....in reality is he addicted or does he have bad habits?...there is a difference

 

On 10/17/2018 at 10:22 AM, Morgaine said:

Any advice or thoughts are welcome. Thank you.

Yes, go see a family law attorney, and don't have any kids.

Edited by omegaseamaster75

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3 hours ago, Morgaine said:

Thank you for words. How do I put my name down at the temple? 

 

3 hours ago, Morgaine said:

Thank you for words. How do I put my name down at the temple? 

If you have an id and password for lds.org, click on name of temple and login https://www.lds.org/temples/list?lang=eng

email the temple at the email address. Put prayer list in the subject line.

if you do nor have an I’d and password, try to google you nearest temple and look for an email address.

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or you can look up your nearest temple online, find their phone number, call it, and ask for the prayer roll.  uusally there is an option for that, and you just select it, then you follow the instructions to say the name or names you want on it.  It is pretty easy.  When your done, you hang up.

 

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I'm not an expert as far as medical training goes, but I grew up with my mother having a lot of mental health issues, bipolar being on the list, and someone that truly has this disorder when they are feeling good will get off of the medication and believe that they don't need it because they are fine. Like others have said that being treated would probably be your second step in the right direction, getting counseling together would have been your first. 

 

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Please tell him that you love him and want him to be at his best, so it’s important for him to take care of himself and that includes taking his medication.

if he heeded your request to counsel with the Bishop regarding his struggles with pornography and is going with you to marriage counseling, hopefully he will respond positively when you ask him to stay on his medication.

Godspeed to both of you.

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