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SpiritDragon

"Lady" is now sexist?

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So, I was recently essentially told that the term lady or ladies is pejorative and is best not used. It apparently conjures up images of women needing to be polite and submissive to men, a reference to sexist masculine class dominance. In fact, unbeknownst to me, at least according to one individual I recently encountered, it is akin to calling a person of color the N word - such that females can call each other ladies but for a male to use the term he is telling the "ladies" to get in their place and do what he says. I always thought it had more class and was complimentary. I'm curious to get others take on it. I can't keep up with all the ways people are coming up with to be offended.

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:eyeroll:

There's my take.

Ten years ago, I was informed that "Oriental" (a word that means "eastern") was now officially Offensive. Except when applied to food, apparently. The preferred acceptable term is now "Asian". If the need for more specificity is encountered -- turns out Asia is actually a pretty large place, but who knew? -- "East Asian" is expected. I have had numerous East Asians roll their eyes at that and tell me it was baloney, and a couple who agreed that "Oriental" is deeply offensive and to be avoided at all costs.

:eyeroll:

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My mother used to work for the March of Dimes. I am not sure if this charity still exists but it helped the handicapped. In my life time the word for handicapped has moved from: crippled to handicapped to disabled to special and now I am not sure what the term is. The office that used to be called Special services is now Accessibility Services. I have been sending people who need these services to an office that keeps changing its name for 12 years! Some inconvenience but you know what? I have noticed that the self image of ‘special’ students has dramatically evolved over the years! Now these students are fighters! Changing the language is a mark of respect and it does help the historically disadvantaged. We need to move with the times as the language changes or else we end up sitting on the porch telling people to get off our lawns! 

I was the first female financial analyst in my part of Canada Post. The marketing managers (all male, the women were not promoted) would express their contempt for me by staring fixedly at my chest during meetings. At social events, the male managers would subject me to a constant attack of dirty jokes.My male colleagues would tell obscene stories while I worked beside them. Meetings in my department were peppered with obscenities. My corporate manager referred to women as Babes. He informed the female managers that he would never promote a female any higher. My boss called me into his office one day to declare that there was no sexism in our department after one of the managers insulted a pregnant employee declaring that he could not believe that we hired a pregnant employee. Changing the vocabulary does a lot of good.

Edited by Sunday21

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53 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

This surprises me.  I always considered the terms Ladies and/or Gentlemen to be compliments to their respective group.  Times change.

Yes! I personally choose to roll with the times...stops me from being ‘a sit on the porch with rocking chair, rifle on my knee’ sort of person. 

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29 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Yes! I personally choose to roll with the times...stops me from being ‘a sit on the porch with rocking chair, rifle on my knee’ sort of person. 

I personally don't allow the times to make me stupid.

But that's just me.

The PC culture is imploding.  Modern Feminism is cancer.  You shouldn't allow cancer to run rampant unimpeded.

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Someone will always find something offensive.

I don't care. I mean, I do care, but someone having an opinion does not hold much weight with me.  I'm happy to look at and evaluate opinions, but I am not bound by them.  No matter whether it's someone covered by news, a trending meme, a new cultural phenomenon, or everyone on earth but me.  I'll go along with opinions I go along with, and I won't when I don't.

Quote

 It apparently conjures up images of women needing to be polite and submissive to men, a reference to sexist masculine class dominance.

Opinion evaluated.  I pass.  

@classylady doesn't have to change her screen name after all.

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i try to use the term the person prefers.  And to @Sunday21's point.  Some words like 'babe' are just loaded to the gills.  Good heavens.  Don't say this to your female colleagues in the workplace.

Though on the broader concept of political correctness, i thought this article was pretty interesting.  The people who highlight the extremities of political correctness care far more about getting people to click on their ads/articles/videos than they do about representing anything resembling the realities most people live in.  Either that, or they are Russians trying to stir things up :) .

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/large-majorities-dislike-political-correctness/572581/

Edited by lostinwater

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12 hours ago, SpiritDragon said:

So, I was recently essentially told that the term lady or ladies is pejorative and is best not used. It apparently conjures up images of women needing to be polite and submissive to men, a reference to sexist masculine class dominance. In fact, unbeknownst to me, at least according to one individual I recently encountered, it is akin to calling a person of color the N word - such that females can call each other ladies but for a male to use the term he is telling the "ladies" to get in their place and do what he says. I always thought it had more class and was complimentary. I'm curious to get others take on it. I can't keep up with all the ways people are coming up with to be offended.

These types of discussions remind me of the following:

1) Satan will stir up the hearts of the children of humans to anger one against another.

2) An offender for a word

I have a similar thought as @JohnsonJones pertaining to "lady" and "gentlemen." I do not think "gentlemen" is a derogatory name for men, as "lady" is not a derogatory word toward women. But I assume now a cartoon I grew up with will have to change from "Lady and the Tramp" (which I believe Tramp never saw her below him) to "Feline B.... Woman and the Tramp." Wait, I am offended now, they referred to men as "Tramps." I am going to have to write Disney and complain. How dare they!

Edited by Anddenex
Feline B.... to Woman

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21 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

These types of discussions remind me of the following:

1) Satan will stir up the hearts of the children of humans to anger one against another.

2) An offender for a word

I have a similar thought as @JohnsonJones pertaining to "lady" and "gentlemen." I do not think "gentlemen" is a derogatory name for men, as "lady" is not a derogatory word toward women. But I assume now a cartoon I grew up with will have to change from "Lady and the Tramp" (which I believe Tramp never saw her below him) to "Feline and the Tramp." Wait, I am offended now, they referred to men as "Tramps." I am going to have to write Disney and complain. How dare they!

Get in line.  I'm still waiting for Disney to release Beauty and the Beast where Beauty is the guy and Beast is the girl.

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2 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

This surprises me.  I always considered the terms Ladies and/or Gentlemen to be compliments to their respective group.  Times change.

Indeed. This is why I was so taken back to discover this term had shifted from one of respect to one of sexism in the minds of at least a certain subset of the population. I'm curious to know how prevalent it is. I don't want to be offending people, but I also don't want to go along with stupidity and changing language is difficult.

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1 minute ago, SpiritDragon said:

Indeed. This is why I was so taken back to discover this term had shifted from one of respect to one of sexism in the minds of at least a certain subset of the population. I'm curious to know how prevalent it is. I don't want to be offending people, but I also don't want to go along with stupidity and changing language is difficult.

All of these PC stuff, word policing, gender pronouns, etc. etc. is a small minority that sounds like a majority due to the bullhorns of the media.  Usually, you'll think this is some New Yorker thing which simply doesn't exist anywhere in Oklahoma, Kansas, and Nebraska until you realize most New Yorkers are saying... "Get outta here with that bs...." (with f words mixed in).

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58 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

i try to use the term the person prefers. 

Me too.  But when folks start getting offended on behalf of someone else, well, they might just end up offended that particular day. 

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1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

But I assume now a cartoon I grew up with will have to change from "Lady and the Tramp" (which I believe Tramp never saw her below him) to "Feline and the Tramp." Wait, I am offended now, they referred to men as "Tramps." I am going to have to write Disney and complain. How dare they!

While you're at it, ask them why they decided to turn Lady into a cat.

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Now, if the PC-ation of "Lady" is not bad enough... there's this:

"This is not about performance advantage.  This is about human rights."   There ya go, men!  You can finally fulfill your dream of winning in competitive sports!

 

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27 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Hehehe. Well, I thought Feline would be better than "B...." for female dog.

It would be Canine for a dog - and a female canine is a bitch. In my opinion it was extremely uneducated humans who turned that word into a derogatory name for the human female. For everyone's education a female cat is called a queen.

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18 minutes ago, Iggy said:

It would be Canine for a dog - and a female canine is a bitch. In my opinion it was extremely uneducated humans who turned that word into a derogatory name for the human female. For everyone's education a female cat is called a queen.

Watch your language there Iggy, there are sensitive readers here ;)

And queens need to worry about stray toms. :D

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43 minutes ago, Iggy said:

It would be Canine for a dog - and a female canine is a bitch. In my opinion it was extremely uneducated humans who turned that word into a derogatory name for the human female. For everyone's education a female cat is called a queen.

 

23 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Watch your language there Iggy, there are sensitive readers here ;)

And queens need to worry about stray toms. :D

But only for unspayed/unneutered cats.

Sterile cats have become disenfranchised and should march in protest!

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11 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

But only for unspayed/unneutered cats.

That is what a "tom" is, they are male cats that are still fertile.

11 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Sterile cats have become disenfranchised and should march in protest!

Gibs (male cats who are neutered) should march in protest as their rights have been removed ;)

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4 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

That is what a "tom" is, they are male cats that are still fertile.

Like I said, the name only applies to unneutered cats.  Gib has been lost to the ether.  Sterile male cats should still march in protest!  Or, I guess they can leave it to the pink-hat pussies.

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3 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Now, if the PC-ation of "Lady" is not bad enough... there's this:

"This is not about performance advantage.  This is about human rights."   There ya go, men!  You can finally fulfill your dream of winning in competitive sports!

 

Won't that be a step backward for women in sport. Good grief.

Edited by SpiritDragon

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