"Lady" is now sexist?

[anatess2]

15 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

Too bad it has metastasized too much to be operable. We're stuck with this nonsense 'til the Lord comes, I expect.

Or 'til we sink the bullhorns of the news media into complete irrelevance.

[SpiritDragon]

9 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

My mother used to work for the March of Dimes. I am not sure if this charity still exists but it helped the handicapped. In my life time the word for handicapped has moved from: crippled to handicapped to disabled to special and now I am not sure what the term is. The office that used to be called Special services is now Accessibility Services. I have been sending people who need these services to an office that keeps changing its name for 12 years! Some inconvenience but you know what? I have noticed that the self image of ‘special’ students has dramatically evolved over the years! Now these students are fighters! Changing the language is a mark of respect and it does help the historically disadvantaged. We need to move with the times as the language changes or else we end up sitting on the porch telling people to get off our lawns! 

I was the first female financial analyst in my part of Canada Post. The marketing managers (all male, the women were not promoted) would express their contempt for me by staring fixedly at my chest during meetings. At social events, the male managers would subject me to a constant attack of dirty jokes.My male colleagues would tell obscene stories while I worked beside them. Meetings in my department were peppered with obscenities. My corporate manager referred to women as Babes. He informed the female managers that he would never promote a female any higher. My boss called me into his office one day to declare that there was no sexism in our department after one of the managers insulted a pregnant employee declaring that he could not believe that we hired a pregnant employee. Changing the vocabulary does a lot of good.

Thank you for sharing that. I'm glad to some extent it seems to be helping, I suppose, as I truly don't want people feeling bad. On the flip side I worry that certain conditions of being are so associated with being undesirable that no matter what term is used it will eventually become pejorative. I mean, like you mentioned, how many terms can you burn through before you say enough already, it doesn't matter what the term is it will become associated with something negative and by default be abused. It also leads to great confusion and you have mentioned not knowing what to call people. I have no idea what is the correct thing to call people of color anymore because the rules keep changing. As a kid I called them negroes, then blacks, then african-americans, back to blacks... to people of color, but not colored people? It bogs down conversation when we can't simply use descriptive words. Ultimately, people are people, but we do have differences that can be useful descriptors for identification purposes, but I don't even think anyone can agree on what is acceptable anymore. (This is not to imply being a different race is undesirable, just talking to confusion at this point)

Good heavens, Prime Minister Trudeau can run around around India in costumes to try to look like and Indian and because he's a lefty and self-proclaimed feminist it's considered a sign of respect, but if my kid dressed that way for Halloween it would be appropriation and I'm teaching my child to be racist. 

[Guest Scott]

Quote

 It apparently conjures up images of women needing to be polite

I guess I never thought of it before, but if we go by some dictionary definitions I guess the above at least might be true.

dictionary.com says this: 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lady

noun, plural la·dies.

1. a woman who is refined, polite, and well-spoken:She may be poor and have little education, but she's a real lady.
2. a woman of high social position or economic class:She was born a lady and found it hard to adjust to her reduced circumstances.
3. any woman; female (sometimes used in combination):the lady who answered the phone; a saleslady.

Even the above dictionary says the following under usage: 

Usage note

In the meanings “refined, polite woman” and “woman of high social position” the noun lady is the parallel of gentleman. As forms of address, both nouns are used in the plural(Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your cooperation ), but only lady occurs in the singular. Except in chivalrous, literary, or similar contexts ( Lady,spurn me not ), this singular is now usually perceived as rude or at least insensitive: Where do you want the new air conditioner, lady? Although lady is still found in phrases or compounds referring to occupation or the like ( cleaning lady; saleslady ), this use seems to be diminishing. The use of lady as a modifier ( lady doctor;lady artist ) suggests that it is unusual to find a woman in the role specified. Many women are offended by this use, and it too is becoming less common. 
An approach that is increasingly followed is to avoid specifying the sex of the performer or practitioner. Personor a sex-neutral term can be substituted for lady, as cleaner for cleaning lady and sales associate or sales clerk for saleslady. When circumstances make it relevant to specify sex, woman rather than lady is used, the parallel term being man: Men doctors outnumber women doctor's on the hospital staff by more than three to one. 

 

PS, I'm just quoting the dictionary.   None of the above came from me and does not reflect my own thought and opinions.  

 

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Scott

[pam]

9 hours ago, Iggy said:

It would be Canine for a dog - and a female canine is a bitch. In my opinion it was extremely uneducated humans who turned that word into a derogatory name for the human female. For everyone's education a female cat is called a queen.

And those cats take that term to the limit.  

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

..stops me from being ‘a sit on the porch with rocking chair, rifle on my knee’ sort of person. 

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Sunday21]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Carb! Hallowe’en is coming up! Be nice to the tricker treaters! 🎃 

Seriously, my sister used to work in the Emergncy of a notorious American Hospital. For a Canadian this was a mind blowing baptism of fire. My sister could not afford to quit and some of the nursing staff were practically psychopaths. One nurse would torture my sister with stories about sitting on her front porch with a rifle shooting cats. My family used to have meals in which we speculated if this could be true. Can you really sit on your front porch in the US and shoot cats? We would wonder. David Sedaris has a famous short story in which he claims that the blind are allowed to go hunting in Michigan so.. maybe? 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Carb! Hallowe’en is coming up! Be nice to the tricker treaters! 🎃 

Seriously, my sister used to work in the Emergncy of a notorious American Hospital. For a Canadian this was a mind blowing baptism of fire. My sister could not afford to quit and some of the nursing staff were practically psychopaths. One nurse would torture my sister with stories about sitting on her front porch with a rifle shooting cats. My family used to have meals in which we speculated if this could be true. Can you really sit on your front porch in the US and shoot cats? We would wonder. David Sedaris has a famous short story in which he claims that the blind are allowed to go hunting in Michigan so.. maybe? 

To lawfully discharge a firearm in any non-life threatening situation, a person must do so outside of city limits.  For a person's residence, there is usually a minimum acreage in which you're allowed to do so.  And it must be at a certain minimum distance from any property line.

Now, if you've met all these (and a few more IIRC) requirements, and a stray cat happens to come near you when you're not really in favor of cats...  Well, I think you know.

And, yes, there are several states that have specifically granted blind people the right to carry firearms.  But to carry concealed, it usually requires that they pass a basic accuracy test with a pistol.  I don't know of many blind people who can meet that standard.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Guest

[Lindy]

13 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

.... But when folks start getting offended on behalf of someone else, well, they might just end up offended that particular day. 

So true, so true.  I honestly think that you can't keep someone being offended on any given day. Try as hard as you may...... if someone WANTS to start something they will find something to be offended by.

In fact I think I'll be offended by the term cloud tomorrow, and the name Brown on Saturday.    :-) 

[Lindy]

12 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Now, if the PC-ation of "Lady" is not bad enough... there's this:

"This is not about performance advantage.  This is about human rights."   There ya go, men!  You can finally fulfill your dream of winning in competitive sports!

 

I have a few words but am not allowed, shouldn't, and better not express them. This just makes me ------- mad even thinking about it.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Lindy

[anatess2]

8 hours ago, Lindy said:

So true, so true.  I honestly think that you can't keep someone being offended on any given day. Try as hard as you may...... if someone WANTS to start something they will find something to be offended by.

In fact I think I'll be offended by the term cloud tomorrow, and the name Brown on Saturday.    :-) 

This just clouded up my sunshiny day.

[Lindy]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

This just clouded up my sunshiny day.

So the word cloud offended you now too? Maybe we can protest a group somewhere and scream at people like lunatics because we are offended.

How about we go for 'anteater' tomorrow? I can psyche myself into a tizzy for the occasion.

[anatess2]

14 minutes ago, Lindy said:

So the word cloud offended you now too? Maybe we can protest a group somewhere and scream at people like lunatics because we are offended.

How about we go for 'anteater' tomorrow? I can psyche myself into a tizzy for the occasion.

Oh, I'm prepared to get worked up over Brown.  Anteater on Sunday?

[Traveler]

On 10/18/2018 at 9:18 AM, anatess2 said:

Get in line.  I'm still waiting for Disney to release Beauty and the Beast where Beauty is the guy and Beast is the girl.

Already done in a "Batman" movie.  I believe the line belongs to the joker (Jack Nicholson). 

 

The Traveler

[classylady]

On 10/17/2018 at 9:27 PM, SpiritDragon said:

So, I was recently essentially told that the term lady or ladies is pejorative and is best not used. It apparently conjures up images of women needing to be polite and submissive to men, a reference to sexist masculine class dominance. In fact, unbeknownst to me, at least according to one individual I recently encountered, it is akin to calling a person of color the N word - such that females can call each other ladies but for a male to use the term he is telling the "ladies" to get in their place and do what he says. I always thought it had more class and was complimentary. I'm curious to get others take on it. I can't keep up with all the ways people are coming up with to be offended.

I’m old school, but I consider the term lady to be a compliment. I really really hope lady doesn’t become a “dirty” word. 

I deliberately chose “Classylady” as my screen name because I consider being a lady and having some class as being the type of person I want to be. One of the nicest compliments I received was back in my 20’s and I was told by several young men (Elders in my mission) that I had class. I took that as a compliment, and I put that with lady - one who is “refined, polite, and well-spoken” to hopefully portray the type of person I aspire to be. I fall short at times, but my screen name reminds me to always be Christlike.

These days it seems that young women have no desire to be a “lady” or have “class”. Why has this fallen into disfavor? I simply don’t understand it. 

[SpiritDragon]

2 hours ago, classylady said:

I’m old school, but I consider the term lady to be a compliment. I really really hope lady doesn’t become a “dirty” word. 

I deliberately chose “Classylady” as my screen name because I consider being a lady and having some class as being the type of person I want to be. One of the nicest compliments I received was back in my 20’s and I was told by several young men (Elders in my mission) that I had class. I took that as a compliment, and I put that with lady - one who is “refined, polite, and well-spoken” to hopefully portray the type of person I aspire to be. I fall short at times, but my screen name reminds me to always be Christlike.

These days it seems that young women have no desire to be a “lady” or have “class”. Why has this fallen into disfavor? I simply don’t understand it. 

Thanks for sharing that @classylady I appreciate you weighing in. I too would be sad to see a word that I associate with good character becoming a dirty word as well. I was shocked when it came up recently as a problematic term.

[mordorbund]

13 hours ago, classylady said:

I’m old school, but I consider the term lady to be a compliment. I really really hope lady doesn’t become a “dirty” word. 

It won't. Not as long as it's associated with Beyonce.

[Iggy]

On 10/17/2018 at 9:27 PM, SpiritDragon said:

So, I was recently essentially told that the term lady or ladies is pejorative and is best not used. It apparently conjures up images of women needing to be polite and submissive to men, a reference to sexist masculine class dominance. In fact, unbeknownst to me, at least according to one individual I recently encountered, it is akin to calling a person of color the N word - such that females can call each other ladies but for a male to use the term he is telling the "ladies" to get in their place and do what he says. I always thought it had more class and was complimentary. I'm curious to get others take on it. I can't keep up with all the ways people are coming up with to be offended.

Can I ask who told you?

[mordorbund]

Can't imagine any wouldn't want to be addressed this way.

 

[Morgaine]

This is so ridiculous, and I'm a product of this era. I was taught to call women "ladies" and I would love to be referred to as one! So what are women supposed to be referred to as now?? Gentlemen? Please.