Styln

Non Mormon - Heaven

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22 hours ago, zil said:

Other scriptures linked to and explained here: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/degrees-of-glory?lang=eng&letter=D

(feel free to ignore the ones not in the Bible)

1

Your reference to Joh is slightly different than what is quoted in my Bible: 

King James Version
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

Styln

 

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1 minute ago, Styln said:

Your reference to Joh is slightly different than what is quoted in my Bible: 

King James Version
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

Styln

 

LDS use the KJV, and the verses are identical 

From your link: https://biblehub.com/kjv/john/14.htm  2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.  3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also

LDS link https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/14  2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

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14 minutes ago, Styln said:

Your reference to Joh is slightly different than what is quoted in my Bible: 

King James Version
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

Styln

 

You just quoted the NIV, and provided a link to the KJV. I'm a bit confused. Which one do you actually use?

I personally really enjoy the flowery language the the KJV, it sounds so good when read aloud. I read something in Isaiah (we are studying the Old Testament in Sunday School this year) earlier this week and it was poetic and beautifully written in the KJV. The newer translations lose that magic of cadence and flow that KJV has. Plus as pointed out, the KJV is what our bibles are. I've found that when you've grown up on the KJV, it's language is barely archaic, you get used to the way it reads. 
 

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4 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

LDS use the KJV, and the verses are identical 

From your link: https://biblehub.com/kjv/john/14.htm  2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.  3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also

LDS link https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/14  2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Thank you for letting me know. I continue to learn.

 

Styln

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On 10/24/2018 at 8:34 AM, Styln said:

Thanks for your reply... Since nobody can tell me for sure if I will make it to heaven, I guess it must be a matter of Faith.

 

Styln

Faith in Heavenly Father (God) and in His Son Jesus Christ and also how you apply that faith, following the commandments, examples and teachings of Christ.

Actually there as been a lot of information given to answer your question, but a lot of it is in our Church lingo that would be hard for a non member to understand.

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Styln- it was the phrase "many mansions" that peaked my interest when I was a non-member. Different levels of what we call Heaven...... this was a concept that no one else told me about when I was bouncing from church to church trying to find my answers.

I was told by preachers, ministers, evangelists, etc., that people like Charles Manson would still go to the same Heaven as I would..... because he professed a belief.  I didn't understand why bad people "who believed" and led a terrible sinful life - were still given a free pass to the same Heaven that good  people who followed the Commandments and teachings of Christ would be in.

I was brought up with the concept of it was either Heaven or Hell. Every church I went to told me if you believe in God and take upon you the name of Christ- you were saved (from Hell).

I like the idea that we are judged by the way we live our lives and basically earn a spot in the kingdom (level) of Heaven that corresponds with how we lived our earthly life. 

 

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On 10/26/2018 at 10:18 PM, Lindy said:

Styln- it was the phrase "many mansions" that peaked my interest when I was a non-member. Different levels of what we call Heaven...... this was a concept that no one else told me about when I was bouncing from church to church trying to find my answers.

I was told by preachers, ministers, evangelists, etc., that people like Charles Manson would still go to the same Heaven as I would..... because he professed a belief.  I didn't understand why bad people "who believed" and led a terrible sinful life - were still given a free pass to the same Heaven that good  people who followed the Commandments and teachings of Christ would be in.

I was brought up with the concept of it was either Heaven or Hell. Every church I went to told me if you believe in God and take upon you the name of Christ- you were saved (from Hell).

I like the idea that we are judged by the way we live our lives and basically earn a spot in the kingdom (level) of Heaven that corresponds with how we lived our earthly life. 

 

3

hum... so... there is no Kingdon of God here on earth then...?

 

Styln

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8 minutes ago, Styln said:

hum... so... there is no Kingdon of God here on earth then...?

Of course the kingdom of God is on earth. It is called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Lindy was speaking of her understandings of the kingdoms of heaven.

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

Of course the kingdom of God is on earth. It is called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Lindy was speaking of her understandings of the kingdoms of heaven.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

Styln

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Baptism and reception of the Holy Spirit, by proxy, is a matter of some controversy, if I am not mistaken. The main debate is over whether someone who has been exposed to the teachings of the Church, but who did not embrace them, would be receptive to proxy ordinances, after death. Many members suggest that it is unlikely.

I would somewhat disagree with this assertion.

Our Church believes that everybody will have a fair chance to receive and accept the gospel, whether in this life or the next.

As to what that fair chance is, I don't think we as mortals can judge as to who has had a fair chance and who has not.  Simple exposure to the teachings may or may not be that fair chance.   I don't think we know what composes of someone else's fair chance. If the missionaries knock on someone's door and they say "no thanks", is that the person's fair chance?   If someone has a few missionary lessons and decides that they are happy with the church they currently belong to or lack thereof, did they just blow their fair chance?   If a person who is a very good person not of our faith and who has a lot of friends in our Church and knows some of the teachings, but doesn't get baptized, did they blow their fair chance?

We really don't know.  Personally, I don't think it is within our interest to try and decide who has had a fair chance and who has not.  We really aren't the ones to make that judgement.  We're just supposed to invite others to partake in the gospel, to help teach them, and to love the person whether or not they join our Church or not.  It really isn't our place, beyond what it says in the scriptures to judge as to who has or has not had a fair chance to partake in the gospel or to decide who (beyond what it says in the scriptures) who will or will not be in the Celestial Kingdom.  Our scriptures tell us what is required to get into the Celestial Kingdom, but we ourselves shouldn't be assigning people to those kingdoms based on our limited knowledge of a person's heart. 

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I've only skimmed through this thread and haven't read it all. Speaking in very general terms, my opinion is that the most important goal in this life is to shape one's character/personality in such a way that it is consistent with what is required to live in the celestial kingdom. The further away one falls from achieving this outcome, the further away they will be frome the celestial kingdom in the next life an the less happy they will be. Moulding one's character/personlity to the required mould can be done under almost any set of circumstances or set of religious beliefs and practices and is not in any way dependent upon membership in a particular church although I believe the process is far, far easier in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Once one has the required character, it will be as easy and as obvious and as natural for that person to accept the vicarious ordinances that have been done on their behalf as night follows day. I see acceptance of the ordinances as akin to adding one's signature to a document that one agrees with. Those ordinances are only available through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but thanks to the obedience, righteousness and hard work of temple attending saints, those ordinances can be, must be, will be performed by proxy for everybody. Failure to accept the ordinances will result in spending eternity somewhere other than the celestial kingdom, as acceptance of those ordinances is essential no matter how well one has shaped their character in mortality.

Edited by askandanswer

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On 10/21/2018 at 10:47 PM, Jane_Doe said:

Super-short answer: all people who follow Christ will spend eternity with Him, happy beyond their wildest dreams.

Much more informative, but longer answer: members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints don't view the afterlife as a binary Heaven/Hell the way other Christians do.  Rather the LDS view is more of a spectrum view, where even evilest* people end up happy in the eternities, with some measure of God's presence.  The more one accept God into your life, the more of God's glory and happiness that person receives in the eternities.  Obviously LDS folks hold that LDS beliefs are the most correct and fullness of the Gospel, leaving to the fullness glory / happiness / God's presence. 

Even much more informative, but longer answer: see here https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-46-the-final-judgment?lang=eng&_r=1

 

*Ok, 'evilist' excluding the Cain type folks.    

 

I am seriously impressed with this answer......

and reminded of something similar from near death experiencer Christian Andreason that really made sense to me.  

Edited by DennisTate
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