I keep finding advantages to plural marriage


person0
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While I recognize there are disadvantages as well, now that I have seven children, I keep finding advantages to plural marriage, especially in specific every day situations.  My wife and I discuss them and laugh about it, but jointly acknowledge their merit.

Example 1:  Right now, my wife is very ill with a sinus infection. Two of our children are home schooled, and three are still too young for school.  I have a vacation blackout at work because it is Open Enrollment for more than 12,000 of our employees to start or renew their health insurance.  Assuming both were not ill at the same time, having more than one stay at home wife would substantially lighten the load during the day when I could not be there to help.

Example 2:  Even when my wife is not ill, to reduce her daily workload and ensure we both have adequate time to spend with the kids, we have had to source additional help to clean our home.  Normal chore work such as this would be easier to manage without hired help, and on that same note, there could be even more opportunities to spend time with the each member of the family.

Example 3:  My sister-in-law does not like being a stay at home mother; she does it because she loves her two children, and recognizes it is her spouse's responsibility to provide financially for the family.  She has openly remarked on more than one occasion that she would much prefer to work than to stay at home.  Assuming agreement from all parties, plural marriage would make it much easier for woman involved to at least 'test the waters' to determine what they prefer to do.  If a plural spouse chose to work, her additional income, used wisely, would easily enable early retirement.  This example potentially conflicts with the other two, but not necessarily.

Example 4:  Almost no one is willing to babysit our seven children.  Date night is difficult to arrange, and the cost for a babysitter would be more expensive than the date itself.  Plural marriage creates an environment where date night would only be impeded by illness.  This also even more importantly applies to temple worship.

Example 5:  Three weeks ago, while sweeping grass off my driveway after cleaning the underside of the lawn mower, the aluminum broom handle snapped into two pieces and one of them sliced my finger.  I was bleeding pretty badly, and ultimately required 18 stitches just on one finger, and still have a small fracture.  All members of the Church and friends who live near our home were unavailable, an ambulance ride for a cut finger is pretty overkill and very expensive, and due to the loss of blood my wife was adamant that it was unsafe for me to drive and risk fainting.  With these things happening, my wife had to wake up the baby who she had just barely gotten to fall asleep, load up all the children, and take me to the ER (urgent care refused to treat due to the severity).  I was at the ER from 8pm through 11:30pm, if it weren't for the blessing that our Ministering Brother returned our call and showed up to trade places with my wife, all our children, younger and older, would have been there waiting way past their bedtime, and my wife would have had to deal with it.  With plural marriage, the chances that this type of situation would occur would be drastically reduced, and in general, there would be more immediate help available in case of an emergency.

Example 6:  I am so very grateful for all the beautiful children the Lord has blessed us with.  Having said that, many in this forum already know, my wife is unable to get pregnant; all our children are adopted (or soon to be).  Even if we had chosen to use in vitro fertilization, her chances of becoming pregnant would have been less than 5%.  Even if my wife were able to get pregnant, due to complications with our different blood types, there would have been increased risk of illness and pre-mature death of the child.  Plural marriage could potentially destigmatize and reduce the expense and complications of surrogacy.  On a related note, please enjoy this true story about a couple with infertility issues and Brigham Young's plan and method to help them resolve it (The applicable portion begins in the paragraph below the title, MORE FAMILY A Pearl of Great Price.

Example 7:  I have another sister-in-law who is older than my wife and yet remains unmarried.  She is a very righteous member of the Church who has had difficulty in finding a man who lives up to her gospel standards.  This has become increasingly difficult with age as 'all the good ones get taken'.  Plural marriage somewhat solves this conundrum, because the field of potential spouses remains open.

Example 8:  It is difficult for many stay-at-home mothers to have opportunities to be with and communicate with other adults outside of social media and occasionally evenings when their spouse can be home with the kids.  Plural marriage not only makes this more feasible, it also makes possible a full-time adult daily companion for the women.

Example 9:  As spoken by the Lord and written by Jacob, plural marriage enables more rapid population growth, and also (if necessary) quicker replenishment in times of war.

Example 10:  In a plural marriage relationship, if one spouse dies, both a widow and also widower would have more opportunities for continued companionship and/or re-marriage.

All of these examples assume consensual participants with faith and commitment to overcome the disadvantages.  These are just a few examples I came up with based on real life situations; I'm interested to get everyone's perspective on additional advantages, and/or thoughts in general.

DISCLAIMER:  Plural marriage is currently both against the law (for most people) and also forbidden by the Lord; this post should not be misconstrued as an argument in favor of implementing plural marriage right now.

Edited by person0
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You don’t need another wife, you need a live-in maid/housekeeper, like Alice from the “Brady Bunch.” That would solve the day-to-day problems.

My ancestry is from good polygamist pioneer stock on both my paternal and maternal sides of the family. It has been interesting to read some of their journals. Most polygamist families lived in separate households. So, depending on how many wives you had, you would be responsible for building/buying each wife her separate house. If each wife had five children or more, think of how many pairs of shoes, clothes, braces for their teeth, food, etc. that you would have to provide?

I have one ancestor, I can’t remember how many wives he had, I know he had at least three, but if he bought a large sack of beans he would have to count the beans when he was dividing it, so each household received the same amount, or there would be complaints. And those wives would make sure no one wife was favored. Not fun in my opinion. My maternal great grandfather married two sisters. They did live in the same house, but each sister had her separate living quarters. They were very close and helped each other out, much like in your scenarios. But, I don’t think that was the norm.

I think of the ancient harems of the kings, and how the wives would kill the babies of the other wives so their child would some day be the rightful heir. Not pretty.

I grew up in Southern Utah and have met a number of “lost boys,”  young men who have been disenfranchised from their closed polygamist communities, because there are not enough women for them to marry.  Most of the girls are married off to the older patriarchs in the community. My son just built a home last year in St. George, and the builders (two brothers) were from a small polygamist community, and were pretty much kicked out after a certain age. This is very common. The builders subcontracted out the framing and other jobs to polygamist groups. It was very interesting. During the St. George Parade of Homes I volunteered at my son’s house. Many polygamist families came through to see the end result of their labors. The women, dressed in their long skirts, and long hair, had cell phones just like any woman these days, and were taking photos on their phones just like any other woman. It was interesting. I’m a people watcher and enjoy watching others.

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If someone wants to break the law by practicing polygamy, that is their business.  It's illegal, but at least it's them making the choice.  

But polygamy, when controlled and imposed upon people by religious leaders under the pretext of it being God-ordained, has a remarkably consistent record.  It leaves a wake of pain, suffering, abuse, jealousy, and manipulative favoritism a mile wide.  Pretty close to 100% of the time.  

Recommended Reading (note the titles)

Breaking Free by Rachel Jeffs

The Polygamist's Daughter by Anna LeBaron

Escape by Ann Marie Lee

The Witness Wore Red by Rebecca Musser

Those books are about the FLDS, but you pick up on a lot of the dynamics in polygamist relationships in them.  i'd share ones about early Church polygamist experiences, but i those would not be  approved sources, so i will refrain.

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@person0 - I have a family member (woman) who says, "Polygamy would be awesome. The only thing hard about polygamy is the intimacy matter. Other than that, all other aspects of polygamy would be good." There are definitely advantages, but @classylady does bring out some good points (although I don't think duplexes are technically two separate houses. Separate living quarters, but not separate houses). Even Leah did not like Rachel being the favorite, but this still didn't deter the Lord provided it, which says more about us as individuals than the practice itself.

@lostinwater - The statistics you provide are biased. All that God has done and will do "is good." This includes when God has commanded polygamy. There are other stories of the women who practiced polygamy in our Church (not FLDS), who were broken hearted when polygamy was banned.

Using FLDS (apostates) as an example of books about polygamy would be like telling the story of King Noah and saying all religious leadership are bad (well pretty close to 100% of them). The argument you propose can be said for traditional marriage also, as it has left people with a "wake of pain, suffering, abuse, [and] jealousy" in their lives. The argument you propose can also be said for the priesthood, as we know and the Lord knows when people obtain power they can abuse it, but this does not negate the power, authority, and goodness of the priesthood of God.

The pretty close to 100% statistic is manipulating stats, especially if you are comparing FLDS (uninspired) to authentic sources as derived by God (Abraham and Jacob are just some examples). When the children of God act according to the revealed will of the Lord this has never removed the outcome for pain, suffering, abuse, etc... as we have all been given our moral agency.

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11 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Even Leah did not like Rachel being the favorite, but this still didn't deter the Lord provided it, which says more about us as individuals than the practice itself.

This almost seems like an OT style/culture thing that I'm not sure applies to today's thinking, etc. Take children, for example. The same sort of thing is seen in OT writing...favorite children, etc....but who would dare, in today's world, actually specify a "favorite" child -- even if secretly it was true. I suspect the same would be the case in plural marriage. I know that were I in that situation I would not dare let one wife know that the other was preferred and would go to great lengths to insure everyone felt equally loved and cared for. Happy wife, happy life -- right? The rhyme doesn't hold with plural marriage (well, it sort of could if "lives" meant "the lives of all involved") but the principle still seems pretty sound. ;)

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19 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

This almost seems like an OT style/culture thing that I'm not sure applies to today's thinking, etc. Take children, for example. The same sort of thing is seen in OT writing...favorite children, etc....but who would dare, in today's world, actually specify a "favorite" child -- even if secretly it was true. I suspect the same would be the case in plural marriage. I know that were I in that situation I would not dare let one wife know that the other was preferred and would go to great lengths to insure everyone felt equally loved and cared for. Happy wife, happy life -- right? The rhyme doesn't hold with plural marriage (well, it sort of could if "lives" meant "the lives of all involved") but the principle still seems pretty sound. ;)

True, my statement was in response to the following from @classylady, "And those wives would make sure no one wife was favored." The idea of "favorite" would surely rise in polygamy I would think (Agreed though, would we admit it?).

I mean, my brothers and I know our sister is mom's favorite (Mom denies it though).

Well, the rhyme might hold water if we say, "Happy wives, happy lives - right"? :D

Edited by Anddenex
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I don't think I'd favor polygamy.  I don't see any advantages of it to me or my family.

If it were commanded, yes, I'd follow it.

I am glad we don't have such practices today in the church.  It makes it far easier for me to follow and obey.  I think my wife is also happy that it is not practiced today.

One may point out women that were happy with the polygamous practices, but there were also women that were unhappy with it.  In the Bible we see it in the Old Testament during the time when it was supposed to be at it's most approved.  Leah does NOT seem happy with her lot in life in much of the Bible, and much of her time is spent trying to win the affections of her husband. 

One can only hope that such woman will find happiness and great love and care in the life to come and that all that they could not get here in this life they will get in the next.

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Several jobs ago, I had a female co-worker that had a very interesting picture on her desk.  One guy, bottom center, with a face like he was trying really hard to be positive.  Two women above and on either side of him, both of them looking like they were finding delicious joy in torturing him.   My co-worker was one of the women.  I asked her about it and she proudly explained that was her ex-husband and his current wife.  She got along great with the new wife, and the two of them saw it as their job to make sure he towed the line.

I have zero ties to polygamy that I know about, but when I think about it, I think about that picture.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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19 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

One may point out women that were happy with the polygamous practices, but there were also women that were unhappy with it.

This, of course, is entirely irrelevant, as the same could be said of pretty much any principle that has ever been.

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Guest MormonGator

I make jokes about it but the reality is that I'd never do it. There might be some "advantages" that an 18 year old boy would like (haw haw haw), but having to deal with the jealousies and insecurities that such a relationship would create would lead almost anyone-male or female-to an early grave. 

Edited by MormonGator
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I'm fine with plural marriage because my husband is a GREAT AWESOME WONDERFUL man.  It would be great to see other women receive the blessings of his Priesthood and his protection.  I am confident that my husband can lead a tribe and survive a zombie apocalypse.  My sons are growing up under his tutelage to become great and awesome and wonderful men of their own that can also lead their own tribes through a zombie apocalypse.  We need more of them in the world.

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The problem with plural marriage is jealousy. I feel that it's better for a household to have a heavy workload but enjoy a monogamous relationship, than to bring other wives in the picture and ruin that bond by bringing in opportunities for jealousy to arise. All you have to do is read books written by wives of polygamist relationships and they all speak of the favoritism and jealousy that is amongst the women. 

Better to get a maid/caregiver/nanny to do the work only and appreciate the completeness of having one wife.

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15 hours ago, person0 said:

While I recognize there are disadvantages as well, now that I have seven children, I keep finding advantages to plural marriage, especially in specific every day situations.  My wife and I discuss them and laugh about it, but jointly acknowledge their merit.

Example 1:  Right now, my wife is very ill with the flu. Two of our children are home schooled,and three are still too young for school.  I have a vacation blackout at work because it is Open Enrollment for more than 12,000 of our employees to start or renew their health insurance.  Assuming both were not ill at the same time, having more than one stay at home wife would substantially lighten the load during the day when I could not be there to help.

Example 2:  Even when my wife is not ill, to reduce her daily workload and ensure we both have adequate time to spend with the kids, we have had to source additional help to clean our home.  Normal chore work such as this would be easier to manage without hired help, and on that same note, there could be even more opportunities for

Example 3:  My sister-in-law does not like being a stay at home mother; she does it because she loves her two children, and recognizes it is her spouse's responsibility to provide financially for the family.  She has openly remarked on more than one occasion that she would much prefer to work than to stay at home.  Assuming agreement from all parties, plural marriage would make it much easier for woman involved to at least 'test the waters' to determine what they prefer to do.  If a plural spouse chose to work, her additional income, used wisely, would easily enable early retirement.  This example potentially conflicts with the other two, but not necessarily.

Example 4:  Almost no one is willing to babysit our seven children.  Date night is difficult to arrange, and the cost for a babysitter would be more expensive than the date itself.  Plural marriage creates an environment where date night would only be impeded by illness.  This also even more importantly applies to temple worship.

.....

Stirring the pot in a slightly different direction, during the movement to culturally and legally redefine marriage and normalize homosexuality, we were told that homosexuality is built into evolution as a support system for breeders. The example of worker bees was often cited. 

In other words, homosexual humans are theoretically supposed to be filling the gaps noted in your examples above, thus diminishing the nurturing burden on your wife, your sister, and the provider burden on you, as well as other breeders, thereby  rendering polygamy (either multiple wives or multiple husbands)  of less merit.

The question then becomes, why isn't the homosexual community stepping up to help you and others out in this regard?

Of course we already know the answer. ;)

Thanks, -Wade Enlgund-

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17 hours ago, classylady said:

You don’t need another wife, you need a live-in maid/housekeeper, like Alice from the “Brady Bunch.” That would solve the day-to-day problems.

We have looked into that.  The expense is way to high.  It is 5x more expensive per month than the grocery bill we have for our entire family of 9.  It would also be more expensive than the mortgage payment on our home.  It would be lower cost to feed and house more mouth's than to pay for that type of service.

10 hours ago, Anddenex said:

I have a family member (woman) who says, "Polygamy would be awesome. The only thing hard about polygamy is the intimacy matter. Other than that, all other aspects of polygamy would be good."

I think she is right.  My wife has said the same.  She has said that she has no issues with plural marriage aside from that.  I agree, it would be difficult.

8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I'm fine with plural marriage because my husband is a GREAT AWESOME WONDERFUL man.  It would be great to see other women receive the blessings of his Priesthood and his protection.  I am confident that my husband can lead a tribe and survive a zombie apocalypse.  My sons are growing up under his tutelage to become great and awesome and wonderful men of their own that can also lead their own tribes through a zombie apocalypse.  We need more of them in the world.

I appreciate this sentiment, and I agree.  How many righteous, unmarried women would be opposed to being the 3rd wife of Jesus if given the literal opportunity? In some relatively recent psychological survey-studies, they found that most women in mainstream society oppose polygamy because they imagine their own 'run of the mill' husband as being the one they would have to share; when they are presented with the idea that they would instead have the opportunity to marry a man that they truly admire, or that is of a much higher social status, they excitedly would accept the proposition.  The author then goes on to suggest that in reality, women gain the greater advantage in polygamous societies than men, because more women can be provided for by men who are well to do and who have desirable traits; likewise men are disadvantaged because they have a greater obligation to develop desirable traits in order to have a single spouse.

In my initial post I said not one word about intimacy. That was intentional; the prospect may appear enticing to some, but having more than one spouse to care for intimately would rapidly become a very challenging responsibility, especially because intimacy is only partially physical.  I think what Anddenex's family member said is right; if you remove intimacy from the playing field, all of a sudden polygamy becomes more appealing to everyone.  If the natural carnal appetites of mankind are the issue, it makes absolute sense why it would at times be ordained and commanded of God; the natural man is an enemy to God, therefore, remove the natural part of man from the equation and all of a sudden it is a blessed situation.  Eliminating our natural man is what we are supposed to be using the gospel to do anyway.

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Guest MormonGator
15 minutes ago, person0 said:

 I agree, it would be difficult.

Even if your wife didn't have a problem with the intimacy aspect, when you start spending less time with her and more time with wife number 2, her opinion might change. 

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On 10/22/2018 at 9:21 PM, MormonGator said:

Even if your wife didn't have a problem with the intimacy aspect, when you start spending less time with her and more time with wife number 2, her opinion might change. 

I recognize that every family and every relationship is different, and I agree that in some scenarios that is exactly what could happen.  However, I think that a second spouse would be more likely to give a husband equal time to spend with each of them to that which he is normally able to spend with just one.

I feel like I need an additional disclaimer - I am not advocating that I personally want an additional spouse.  Instead I simply aimed to have a discussion about the areas in our lives where we see potential advantages to plural marriage, whether comical or serious.  Most people discuss only the disadvantages, and often literally discuss it as if it is an inherently evil practice.  My own sister, who is a faithful member of the Church, can't make it through a discussion on the subject. Positive opportunities we can see in it should make it easier to accept the reality that God commanded it, and to understand at least a small portion of the wisdom applied in giving such a command.

On 10/22/2018 at 11:30 PM, Suzie said:

If the advantages of polygamy are about getting free maids and babysitters...Can you imagine the advantages of polyandry? Heaven on earth, I have an endless list of things to fix at home.

Until further light and knowledge is revealed, a plurality of husbands exists at least temporarily, just not during mortality; a woman divorced or widowed and re-married to more than one husband in mortality is sealed to all of them when her temple work is completed after her passing (not to be taken as a statement of belief in eternal polyandry).  Perhaps you would be willing to share an advantage that you recognize in polygamous plural marriage?

Edited by person0
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On 10/22/2018 at 9:30 PM, Suzie said:

If the advantages of polygamy are about getting free maids and babysitters...Can you imagine the advantages of polyandry? Heaven on earth, I have an endless list of things to fix at home.

I am not sure Ms. Anddenex would look at herself as a free maid or babysitter, and she might take a minute amount of offense for a person emphasizing what she does everyday as maid service and babysitting (as the examples given were in light of what first wife is already handling everyday). ;)

However, if there are scriptures like the following that address polyandry as they do polygamy:

Quote

 

"For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things."

"And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;"

"For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man."

 

Then, talking about the potential benefits of polyandry in comparison to the benefits of polygamy would have some benefit also. But talking about the benefits of polyandry when no such command has ever been given (in light of the command to live polygamy given multiple times throughout human history) there really isn't any benefit to discuss about polyandry. 

On 10/22/2018 at 9:52 PM, person0 said:

I feel like I need an additional disclaimer - I am not advocating that I personally want an additional spouse.  Instead I simply aimed to have a discussion about the areas in our lives where we see potential advantages to plural marriage, whether comical or serious.  Most people discuss only the disadvantages, and often literally discuss it as if it is an inherently evil practice.  My own sister, who is a faithful member of the Church, can't make it through a discussion on the subject. Positive opportunities we can see in it should make it easier to accept the reality that God commanded it, and to understand at least a small portion of the wisdom applied in giving such a command. 

True. I also think it important to note, that when Joseph Smith was inquiring to the Lord about polygamy he wasn't asking God to live polygamy. He was asking God about polygamy and why God commanded it. He was seeking knowledge (so I assume we should be careful what we ask for and what knowledge we want to obtain). So discussing something that is a known command is not taboo. Desiring something that is a known "command" not to is something we should avoid (I don't see this thread as a desire) as this scripture should come to all our minds:

Quote

"For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands."

Now, in light of this, one aspect of polygamy I think all should look at, particularly modern daughters of Zion should ponder, is the gospel speaks of unity between Father and Mother, and the Lord has said if ye are not one ye are not mine. If God the Father and Mother are not "one" (unified) then they are hypocrites, and we know they are not hypocrites. In every command given on earth (over the sons and daughters of God the Father) there has been a perfect glorified Mother who is supporting "all" he does -- otherwise they would not be perfect nor they would be one. We are not talking about earthly weakness, we are talking about heavenly strength!

 

Edited by Anddenex
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9 hours ago, person0 said:

Until further light and knowledge is revealed, a plurality of husbands exists within the gospel, just not during mortality; a woman divorced or widowed and re-married to more than one husband in mortality is sealed to all of them when her temple work is completed after her passing. 

I have always understood that she will be sealed to one and only one of these in eternity and that this is done because no one is sure which of the husbands is the right husband and thus we're covering all potential bases.  I have never ever heard or seen anything anywhere to suggest that any woman will have more than one husband in eternity, whereas I have seen nothing but the idea that she will have only one.

(Not commenting here on personal preference or belief, just what I have learned in my lifetime in the Church.)

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Guest LiterateParakeet
1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

I am not sure Ms. Anddenex would look at herself as a free maid or babysitter, and she might take a minute amount of offense for a person emphasizing what she does everyday as maid service and babysitting (as the examples given were in light of what first wife is already handling everyday). ;)

The way I understood Suzie's comment was not that she was calling Mrs. Person) a free maid or babysitter, but implying that a free maid and babysitter appears to be Person0"s reason for polygamy.    That is how I interpreted his comments as well.  @classylady seems to have been thinking along the same lines when she said: "You don’t need another wife, you need a live-in maid/housekeeper, like Alice from the “Brady Bunch.” 

The issue is that we agree with you, that we are more than simply maids and babysitters.  And polygamy would be about more than that as well.  

I used to think I could handle polygamy if I were asked....but then I used to think I wanted to go white water rafting too.  One day my husband pointed out that I hate being out of control and there is nothing more out of control than white water river rafting....so I woke up, LOL!   I was equally unrealistic about polygamy.   Sure I'd love someone to help with the housework and the kids.  But to watch my husband develop romantic feelings for another woman (I'm not even talking about sex here....just romantic feelings)....heck no.  

I have a whole host of other issues with it too.  I would have to be commanded...by the Lord...to do it, and I pray that day never comes.  

 

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Guest MormonGator
15 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

  But to watch my husband develop romantic feelings for another woman (I'm not even talking about sex here....just romantic feelings)....heck no.  
 

Exactly.  

The reality is that unless your marriage isn't very good, no wife/husband would enjoy watching their spouse fall in love with someone else. 

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Guest LiterateParakeet
13 hours ago, person0 said:

How many righteous, unmarried women would be opposed to being the 3rd wife of Jesus if given the literal opportunity? In some relatively recent psychological survey-studies, they found that most women in mainstream society oppose polygamy because they imagine their own 'run of the mill' husband as being the one they would have to share; when they are presented with the idea that they would instead have the opportunity to marry a man that they truly admire, or that is of a much higher social status, they excitedly would accept the proposition.  

I am not one of those women.  First, I love and revere the Savior, but marry Him?  No, that would give me an eternal inferiority complex to be so unequally yoked!

Second, I am already married to a man a truly admire.  He feels the same about me. Isn't that the goal of most traditional marriages? 

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Most the the advantages that are posted can be done with family and friends. I am thankful that I have family and friends that are in my life and willing to help.

I told my husband that I would love a big house with smallet family areas. We could have a bunch of siblings all living together with their families. All the good parts of polygamy without having to share my husband. 

I would not ever be okay sharing my husband with another woman.  I couldn't do it. 

 

 

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