Pageants

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Fether said:

And then there goes the usefulness of having a Nauvoo temple...

which then begs the question, is Nauvoo a sunk cost?

It's more than that.  The Church re-built the Nauvoo Temple to be historically accurate.  But the thing is that they only used the original for a very short period.  They never had to maintain it.  And it was designed with a serious flaw causing perpetual costs to be incurred.

The forecourt of the Nauvoo temple will always be under repair because of the roof drainage and the use of limestone for the paving blocks.  As long as this condition remains, they will need to keep repairing it.  Eventually, this will cause deterioration of the soil beneath the foundation causing structural failure.

Then there is the fact that maintaining any temple is fairly costly.

For it to be used effectively, they need to maintain the tourism at a high level.  And that is increased manyfold by the pageant.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Guest

[zil]

11 hours ago, mordorbund said:

Be careful how you use that. Some people don't take too kindly to redefining that phrase. 

 

So, I finally got annoyed enough at the senselessness of this phrase ("beg" just doesn't fit into the meaning in any logical way) that I went and googled to find out why this phrase means what it means, and found this from the fount of all knowledge (emphasis mine):

Quote

The phrase begging the question originated in the 16th century as a mistranslation of the Latin petitio principii, which actually translates to "assuming the initial point".^[1] In modern vernacular usage, "begging the question" is frequently^[2] used to mean "raising the question" or "dodging the question".^[1] In contexts that demand strict adherence to a technical definition of the term, many consider these usages incorrect.^[3]

It's a MISTRANSLATION!!!!!  No wonder it makes no sense.  What makes less sense is that they didn't figure this out sooner and stop using the mistranslation!!!  I mean, OK, honest mistake not knowing your Latin, but really stupid to persist over centuries in pig-headed use of something that makes no sense when you could just switch to something that clearly does.  I propose that we rebel against pig-headed use of an error and instead of accusing people of "begging the question", we accuse them of "assuming the initial point".  (I know, crazy talk, using language clearly - this is probably one of those "keep the uninitiated out by using specialized vocabulary" things.  Feel free to break out the pitchforks.)

Meanwhile, the (google) dictionary has apparently caved:

Quote

1. (of a fact or action) raise a question or point that has not been dealt with; invite an obvious question.
2.  

   avoid the question; evade the issue.
3.  

   assume the truth of an argument or proposition to be proved, without arguing it.

At least the first definition makes sense within the meaning of the word "beg".  (The second is possibly dumber than the third.)

[mordorbund]

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mordorbund said:

Yet another word that has changed meaning in the past few decades.  It used to be that nauseating referred to the emotional upset (contempt, loathing, to be emotionally sick of seeing/hearing something).  Nauseous OTOH was the physical revulsion (e.g. from eating bad food).

Now, people have conflated physical revulsion with emotional revulsion.  Now there's no difference.

And -- tah dah...

Quote

IRONIC

1. using words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning; containing or exemplifying irony: an ironic novel; an ironic remark.

2. of, relating to, or tending to use irony or mockery; ironical.

3. coincidental; unexpected:

--Dictionary.com

Apparently Alanis Morisette (sp) has altered the lexicon (notice #3 above).

[mordorbund]

Bonus! Check out this clever* usage:

On 3/23/2011 at 4:17 PM, mordorbund said:

OK, this guy clearly has a history of assuming other's identity. And he says he's the real John Doe. That's just what an ID thief would say. Which begs the question. Who is he really.

 

 

* "Oh the cleverness of me!" "Am not I clever? Oh I am clever!" - Peter Pan, and possibly mordorbund.

[Vort]

2 hours ago, mordorbund said:

I corrected my (adult) baby sister once on the use of "nauseous". I've felt guilty about it ever since. Even thinking about it makes me nauseous.

[dahlia]

On 10/30/2018 at 6:58 AM, Lindy said:

I'm wondering if this pageants thing is one of the ways that help weed out those who murmur against changes in the Church. Look how many left the church over the LGBT issues and same sex marriage, people didn't like what Church leaders had to say and walked away from the Church. 

The wheat and chaff/tares analogy that will separate the good seeds from the bad weeds come to mind. We all want to be a good seed and be counted on the Lord's side.

 

I don't know. Seems that there are plenty of things to leave the Church over (if one is so inclined) before ever getting to pageants. 

As for the closed schools, etc. in Nauvoo - the ride down there passes through a few economically depressed towns. It is kinda sad, especially seeing the closed Scheaffer pen factory in Ft. Madison.

[Sunday21]

9 hours ago, dahlia said:

I don't know. Seems that there are plenty of things to leave the Church over (if one is so inclined) before ever getting to pageants. 

As for the closed schools, etc. in Nauvoo - the ride down there passes through a few economically depressed towns. It is kinda sad, especially seeing the closed Scheaffer pen factory in Ft. Madison.

Whenever the media claims that people ‘have left the church because” normally they show pictures of people who left the church years ago! I guess that the media calls up the ‘usual suspects’ who have been complaining for a long time. 

[Tyme]

The Mesa Christmas pageant was great. It was always packed. I'm sure that pageant has persuaded many people to convert. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Tyme

[Sunday21]

Is the church trying to lessen the burden on families by cutting the number of administrative duties for members? Less time organizing out of house activities? So fewer church members asked to organize pagents? In my neck of the woods, where we have few members, the sacrifices that the few stallwart members are asked to make can be very hard on their families. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Sunday21