Anger at Prophet and General Authority


ctr2961
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7 hours ago, ctr2961 said:

I am a single person who has no family support from my birth family.  20 Years ago, my family made me make  a choice between the church and my family, I choose the Church.  Now I am regetting it.

Member for 20 years

7 hours ago, ctr2961 said:

Also we are supposed to "focus on gospel learning in their homes ", but how do I do that when I barely understand the principles of the church and the gospel?  I am banging my head literally try to understand what I am reading.

Barely understand the principles of the church and the gospel?

 

Your two statements are conflicting. Were you inactive for an extended period of time? Did you or do you live in a country where you had no access to scriptures, the internet or other sources of information about the church?

You claim in another thread that you are involved in scouting at least that's what I got from it so do you currently have a calling?

This is a serious question, are you currently on any type of medication or on the autism spectrum?

 

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16 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Member for 20 years

Barely understand the principles of the church and the gospel?

Your two statements are conflicting. Were you inactive for an extended period of time? Did you or do you live in a country where you had no access to scriptures, the internet or other sources of information about the church?

You claim in another thread that you are involved in scouting at least that's what I got from it so do you currently have a calling?

This is a serious question, are you currently on any type of medication or on the autism spectrum?

I can see that as a valid question.  But to be fair to CTR, I've known many people who were even born in the Church and were always active and served faithfully in their callings, but really have no clue about the doctrines of the Church.  I'd dare say we all know some. 

So, I wouldn't be so quick to wonder about him, based on that alone.  But at the same time, I too have noticed "tells" that you may be on to something.

CTR,

We want to be understanding here.  So, don't take this as a criticism.  It is a concern because we care about you.  Are you suffering from any behavioral disorders?  On medication?

Edited by Guest
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I do have Asperger's and I am high functional(great at my job, but lousy with personal relationships.).    I am non-reactive person, (I don't lash out in person).  When I get highly levels of stress through relationships, I remove myself from the situation(become inactive in the church).  I try to express quietly with several members of my ward( Bishop and Elder's Quorum), but with being high functional I don't show the symptoms.

With people being so busy in the Church with activities and families, I struggle with talking with many of the church members.  When I have a very strong concern and need help, people interpret my concern  as lightly and wave it off.  So my many concerns are never handle and I continue struggle in the church. 

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26 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I can see that as a valid question.  But to be fair to CTR, I've known many people who were even born in the Church and were always active and served faithfully in their callings, but really have no clue about the doctrines of the Church.  I'd dare say we all know some. 

So, I wouldn't be so quick to wonder about him, based on that alone.  But at the same time, I too have noticed "tells" that you may be on to something.

It does happen...  But lets do some basic math.  If we assume 2 hours of Church instruction a week (Sunday School, Priesthood/RS) and include Conferences or other events as instructions.  Then 2 hours for 52 weeks equals 104 hours of instruction a year.  If we assume 20 years as an adult that is 2080 hours of church lead instructions.  Which would including going through each book of the standard works 5 times in Gospel Doctrine Class.

This 2080 hours does not include personal study nor the study you might need to do if you have a 'teaching' calling.  I think it is pretty safe to say that if after 2080 hours of teaching a student still does not grasp the basics of a subject, then things need to change. Continuing on the way you were is just wasting everyone time.

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On 10/30/2018 at 7:39 AM, ctr2961 said:

I am a single person who has no family support from my birth family.  20 Years ago, my family made me make  a choice between the church and my family, I choose the Church.  Now I am regetting it.

Since Nelson has become the prophet I been having very strong angry feelings about the changes he and general authority has made in the church.  The changes that are being or made are the things that keep me busy and active in the church.  Now with these programs being removed, I will have not any anymore involvement in the church except for the 2 hour.  I know the 2 hour will be used for people to plan activities instead of using it for what is supposed to be.  The new home plan program will not be good since I am a single and the other singles are busy with their families, so doing study groups are out of the question.  

CTR, I only have a minute, so I haven't read the entire thread yet, I'm just responding to your first post.  What I'm hearing from you is anger masking pain, is that right?  I think that when your family made you make a choice between you and them, that felt/was a huge rejection for you.  Now the changes Pres. Nelson and the other General Authoriteis are making feels like they are severing your connection with the church...another rejection.  

It's no wonder you are feeling hurt and therefore angry.  These are very understandable feelings. First, I would say Christ understands your pain.  He to has felt hurt, rejection, and anger.  This is one of the things the Atonement can help with.  Talk to Heavenly Father about your feelings (when we close our prayers "in the name of Christ" that assures me that Christ also listens when we pray to Father.)  Be honest and tell Father your anger, He already knows and He understands and loves you.  Christ can heal this pain you are feeling.  And help you find the way to move forward and continue to have relationships with your ward family.    I don't know how that will happen, and I understand that you don't yet either, but I trust that Heavenly Father through Christ and through the Holy Ghost will show you a way.  

Also as @NeedleinA said we are here for you as well...your online church family, complete with annoying siblings, LOL!  

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On 10/30/2018 at 7:49 AM, NeedleinA said:

Here we are. We can help supplement your Church family.
Your church family may morph over time, but a church family and church involvement can still be found.
I've moved about 30 times in my life, each ward being different. Change happens.
Change can be hard... we adapt to it because we "love Christ" and this is his Church.
Did Pres. Nelson make the changes because "he" wanted to OR was he and the Quorum of the 12 moved upon that the Savior is guiding "his" Church in this direction.
Are you upset at Pres. Nelson OR are you upset he is following the Saviors guidance?

I think you are missing the OP’s point. The sociality of the Church is a big reason why people attend. This applies to people who are not single as well. The sociality is much reduced with the changes made. I feel it myself, and I’m married. 

I know that during the second hour, a lot of people attend Sunday school in the hallways to gain this sociality. 

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27 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

I know that during the second hour, a lot of people attend Sunday school in the hallways to gain this sociality. 

I don't think I missed anything the OP was saying.
If standing in the halls shooting the breeze is what people need to fulfill their social needs, hey stand in the hall after church for an hour. Presto-chango-rearrango. If you weren't attending class anyways, what is the difference if Church is 2 or 3 hours?

Elder Cook:

Quote

In many parts of the world, people choose to stay at the meetinghouse after the normal Sunday schedule to enjoy social relationships. There is nothing in this announced adjustment that would interfere with this wonderful and rewarding practice in any way.

 

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Why must we only socialize under the roof of the meetinghouse??? For the majority of the members of my Branch, the mileage to homes is not more than 8 miles north and 18 miles south and 8 miles east. Going west you will be in the pacific ocean! When church is not in session we meet at cafe's, restaurants, parks, for walks/picnics on the beach, in each other's homes. I know a month in advance when I will be doing my once a month shopping[the 1st Wed. after payday] and I post it on my RS FB page - if there is any sister who wants to tag along for a 6 hour shopping trip. OR when I want to go to the next largest town to the south of us to do the thrift store, clothing store, and browse the ReStore then I call the sister who is always wanting to go there, but wants a shopping buddy. This next trip is her turn in her empty full size truck. I'll pay half the gas and my own lunch!

We have dinners with other couples and for hubby and I we invite the older single adults or couples with children over 8 yo. Younger children tend to stretch our comfort zone to it's max, and these dinners are meant to be enjoyable & relaxing.

We take turns going to others homes for brunch after church.Come the 1st of the year, ours will end at noon, that means that those of us who are diabetic our blood glucose levels won't be crashing leaving us shaking, weak, and pinging off of furniture. It gives us an additional hour of Visit With Other time where we can discuss the topics that were brought up at church that day ~ Gospel Doctrine, RS & PH.

@ctr2961 when I first married hubby I moved to his town in central AZ - 1,332 miles from my home, the home where I had lived for 26 years. He introduced me to the men he knew and had grown up with, they in turn introduced me to their mother's and wives. Three months later my husband was in the hospital, his blood was NOT clotting, and to me it felt like it was taking weeks to find out what was causing this. In reality it was only days! BUT not a single one of those men - who he grew up with - who also were members of the church - or their mothers or their wives contacted me. Comforted me. NO ONE visited my husband in the hospital. I finally called the Patriarch, because his name was the only name I could remember and I cried over the phone. Only then did the PH visit Hubby in the hospital. Only then did the RS President come to my house with a single serving meal for me. That was also the last time she came to my house. The last time she called me. The last time she greeted me at the meetinghouse.

I was a dark time for me. My family was 1,500 miles away. His son was 2300 miles away, his daughter lives in Hawaii. I felt so alone. BUT I didn't stop going to church. I didn't get angry at the members of my ward there, or the Stake Presidency, all of whom went to elementary to high school with hubby. I had gone that route before. Because I had been offended by a group of nitwit sisters, I left the church. Stayed away for 30 years too. What a real NitWit I had been.

After I found out where to find our ward/stake directory on-line, I started calling the RS sisters asking for specific help. I called his PH buddies requesting they go and give him blessings and I told them I was in his room waiting because I NEEDED blessings too.

After hubby was healed and released, it took me 3 months to find out who our HT were, and in doing so found out that they had been assigned to us one Sunday after we had been *read in over the pulpit* into the ward's membership. I didn't quit going to church because they hadn't visited us. I invited them and their wives over for Saturday night dinners. Then after dinner I asked the Brethren if they could share with us the First Presidencies Message from the current Ensign. That kick-started the Home Teaching from them. I found out who my VT were, and rather than invite them and their husbands for dinner - by then hubby was back to work and his shift started at 3:30 pm and ended around midnight. So I invited them to lunch - dutch. It actually took longer for them to call me for a VT visit - but I persevered.

Rather than continue to seek friendships with the sisters my own age, I sought out friendships with the sisters who were my mom's age.

Nearly all events at church my hubby couldn't attend because he was working, that didn't deter me. I went alone. I sought out the mom & grandma aged sisters and I had a blast.

@ctr2961 you need to knock down those road blocks that you and others have put up. Seek out an older, childless couple and *fellowship* them. Seek out other single men in your ward, and stake.

AND we members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints don't hire the YW or YM to help us with any projects in and around our homes. If you decide to have the YM AND the YW come and paint the interior of your home, then gather the YM AND YW Presidents together and ask them for the help. BUT, from experience let me tell you - you had best have all your *eggs* in a row. In Other Words - have your furniture moved to the middle of every room. Have the walls washed AND rinsed of all soap. Have all the paint purchased, along with enough rollers, paint brushes, paint trays, ladders, painters tape, drop cloths, for every room you wish painted as well as for everyone who will be painting.

The first time I did this, I was prepared with all the items needed  - but my helpers had NO CLUE how to properly paint. I lived with the chaos on the walls for 3 years, then I painted over it properly. So, to do it properly, go to your local hardware or paint store, where you purchased your paint, and ask them to demonstrate to your youth group. It is a 30 minute seminar generally and it covers how to cut in, as well as how to paint a wall with a roller.

I lucked out in that I worked at the local hardware store where I bought my paint, and I had gone to three, 3-day seminars on Paint in the 8 years I worked there. So, the third house I lived in that needed to be painted, I contacted the paint company and they came to my home and demonstrated the proper way to paint. Didn't cost me a thing, and here at my branch I really got to know the YM, YW AND their parents.

I also lucked out that one of the sisters in my branch was a retired interior designer. She spent two days in my home, day and night, going over my belongings. She even went through my clothes, bath linens, kitchen cupboards. Then a week later she brought me about 30 paint samples. We thumb-tacked them on the walls and together we made the final selections.

So, go seek friendships. You don't have to do much more than ask if you can sit next to someone. AND make sure that someone is a brother or a single sister. Go to all the activities. Go to all of the baptisms. Fellowship the newly baptized adults. STOP wallowing in self pity. 

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On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 8:39 AM, ctr2961 said:

I am a single person who has no family support from my birth family.  20 Years ago, my family made me make  a choice between the church and my family, I choose the Church.  Now I am regetting it.

Since Nelson has become the prophet I been having very strong angry feelings about the changes he and general authority has made in the church.  The changes that are being or made are the things that keep me busy and active in the church.  Now with these programs being removed, I will have not any anymore involvement in the church except for the 2 hour.  I know the 2 hour will be used for people to plan activities instead of using it for what is supposed to be.  The new home plan program will not be good since I am a single and the other singles are busy with their families, so doing study groups are out of the question.  

I want to be involvement more with the church, not follow Nelson's plan to be more disconnected.  My home is empty and feels dead.

Two weeks ago, I told my Bishop that I am planning to leave the church since there is nothing for me to do.  The elder's quorum leaders came over and discussed with me about this and I was fine until I heard about the church pagents being banned by the General Authority. 

What should I been thinking.  How do I say my ward if my family, when I barely see them and rarely talk to them(too busy planning activities).

Also we are supposed to "focus on gospel learning in their homes ", but how do I do that when I barely understand the principles of the church and the gospel?  I am banging my head literally try to understand what I am reading.

My brain been on overdrive about this for the past several weeks and I don't understand really why.  I love Christ, but I currently can not support Nelson, and the currently authority.

Change can be difficult, especially when it directly affects our activities and what we participate in.  I can see that you are upset about many of these changes.  You are someone who is deeply involved in the Scouting program.  It seems you have been involved for quite a while.  This move away from scouting may seem like it's taking the rug right out from under you.  What can someone who was told to be highly involved with Scouts do when suddenly the church removes scouting from it's programs?

When  you have much of your social and religious interaction enfolded in church any reduction can also likewise be painful.  It can be difficult to understand why such things are happening.  It can cause anger and even resentment.  I can understand why you may feel this way.

We could all come up with various ideas, but all of it are just thoughts on what could be helpful.  It is not necessarily the right thing, but it is our opinions on what may help.  This is my thoughts in such a way.

I think your anger may be misdirected.  The Prophet and General Authorities are not doing anything to you per se, it is not personal.  You may see it as a sort of personal attack, or something that is personally hurting you through their inattention.  I think you could redirect your thinking into a different manner.  Instead of finding it personally hurtful try to see anyway to turn it into a positive.

Recently they have had changes to the Home Teaching/Visiting Teaching program.  It is now called ministering and it is far less structured.  Instead of going once a month to teach a lesson and find out how a family or individual is doing, you are supposed to invest a lot more into the calling.  You are to try to be there for all aspects and do what you can.  In my thoughts it is to help us be more Christlike in all our dealings and to spread this concern to more than just the people on our ministering list.  It can deal with all the members of the ward.

In this manner, an idea is that to take this extra hour (and even more would be good) on the Sabbath and devote yourself to ministering and scripture study.  Use it as a time to reach out to the members in your ward and visit with them.  Use it to truly get to know people.  Most wards have several hundred people in them.  Some of those who are most in need are not the ones you see at the Church or actively involved.  Find time to meet these people and get to know them.  AS you do this, you will find yourself far more involved than you were before.  There ARE MANY out there that you may have never even seen at church.  Take the extra time and devote yourself to seeing these people, meeting these people, and helping these people.

Stay involved with Boy Scouts.  Just because the Church is no longer involved with Boy Scouts does not mean that you must leave it.  Stay with Scouting and remain a volunteer.  Remain active and you may be surprised in how many members you can help in that regard in the future as well.  Scouting can still be a good program and members who wish to remain in Boy Scouts after the church no longer supports it directly will need help in finding troops to be in, guidance in what to do and how to go about things.

Combining these two, the Scouting spirit has the idea of helping other people, being friendly, courteous, and being kind.  Being involved with Minstering or seeing all the members that you can possibly see in your ward, including inactive members, and trying to help them is in some ways a very extension of that Scouting Spirit.  As you do so you may find that the Scout Oath and Law are even more important to you now, as well as being far more involved and having even less time because you are spending so much time helping members in their various activities.  Many Elderly members that cannot attend church are in a like situation as you, but even more lonely as they have no one to visit and no one to help with tasks that need to be done (such as yard work or other strenuous activities that get hard when one get's older). 

I'd say use this time to become even MORE invested and use the extra time granted to go about the business of the Lord in doing what he would do in visiting the lonely, the elderly, the sick, and the afflicted.  You may find that though you are still unhappy with what happened, you have found new ways to fill your life with spirituality.

Just some of my thoughts on your situation which may or may not be helpful or useful.

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I am sorry you are feeling this way. In answer to your question, yes I do think that you are over reacting. Do you think that your aspergers could be making accepting the change more difficult?

Lots of people on this thread have offered you sound advice. All I have to add is that there is more to come according to a recent interview with President Nelson in Chile:

“We're witnesses to a process of restoration,” said the prophet. “If you think the Church has been fully restored, you're just seeing the beginning. There is much more to come. … Wait till next year. And then the next year. Eat your vitamin pills. Get your rest. It's going to be exciting.”   

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/latter-day-saint-prophet-wife-apostle-share-insights-global-ministry

 

I was initially shocked and a bit disappointed by the announcement of 2 hours church. Then I examined my feelings and thought of it as a challenge to be more responsible for my own social wellbeing. 

I hope that you can find the strength that you need to overcome your initial feelings and also be ready to face the changes that are yet to come.

 

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On 10/30/2018 at 2:58 PM, ctr2961 said:

That the problem with my ward.  I have no "friends" in the ward.  Most of my friends has moved and members left are familes that are too busy to associate with anyone.  I was in the hospital for 6 months and keep calling the bishopric for a blessing and no one showed.  I had a nurse call the Church HQ(LDS.org) to get a phone number from missionary to do a blessing.

 

In the church defense, the phone number I had was from a old bulletin where the Bishop and the ward Secretary was no longer in the ward.

We are your friends! Ask us your questions! 

Mind you, the way the scriptures are designed, they work on many different levels so there are many different applications.

Why not start a little journal here of your church lessons? We can chime in and supplement with suggested readings.

Gospel subjects are complex. I tend to look at things with respect to the stage I am at at the moment. When I progress, there will be another application for the next stage of my life.

If you are someone for whom ambiguity is uncomfortable, then gospel study can be frustrating. However, many people are uncomfortable with ambiguity so we can help! 

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