Anger at Prophet and General Authority

[ctr2961]

I am a single person who has no family support from my birth family.  20 Years ago, my family made me make  a choice between the church and my family, I choose the Church.  Now I am regetting it.

Since Nelson has become the prophet I been having very strong angry feelings about the changes he and general authority has made in the church.  The changes that are being or made are the things that keep me busy and active in the church.  Now with these programs being removed, I will have not any anymore involvement in the church except for the 2 hour.  I know the 2 hour will be used for people to plan activities instead of using it for what is supposed to be.  The new home plan program will not be good since I am a single and the other singles are busy with their families, so doing study groups are out of the question.  

I want to be involvement more with the church, not follow Nelson's plan to be more disconnected.  My home is empty and feels dead.

Two weeks ago, I told my Bishop that I am planning to leave the church since there is nothing for me to do.  The elder's quorum leaders came over and discussed with me about this and I was fine until I heard about the church pagents being banned by the General Authority. 

What should I been thinking.  How do I say my ward if my family, when I barely see them and rarely talk to them(too busy planning activities).

Also we are supposed to "focus on gospel learning in their homes ", but how do I do that when I barely understand the principles of the church and the gospel?  I am banging my head literally try to understand what I am reading.

My brain been on overdrive about this for the past several weeks and I don't understand really why.  I love Christ, but I currently can not support Nelson, and the currently authority.

[NeedleinA]

17 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

I want to be involvement more with the church,

Here we are. We can help supplement your Church family.
Your church family may morph over time, but a church family and church involvement can still be found.
I've moved about 30 times in my life, each ward being different. Change happens.
Change can be hard... we adapt to it because we "love Christ" and this is his Church.
Did Pres. Nelson make the changes because "he" wanted to OR was he and the Quorum of the 12 moved upon that the Savior is guiding "his" Church in this direction.
Are you upset at Pres. Nelson OR are you upset he is following the Saviors guidance?

Edited October 30, 2018 by NeedleinA

[NeedleinA]

President Nelson - Oct General Conference:

Quote

All members of the Council of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are united in endorsing this message. We gratefully acknowledge the inspiration from the Lord that has influenced the development of the plans and procedures that Elder Cook will present.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Reach out all you want-- here's a bunch of LDS folks here just for that purpose

[ctr2961]

All members of the Council of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are united in endorsing this message. We gratefully acknowledge the inspiration from the Lord that has influenced the development of the plans and procedures that Elder Cook will present.

 

I know that I should trust in the Lord, but it just feels that this like more of a Business Rebranding instead of a Spirital Plan.  Many of these activities I have found out was cut due to mudane reasons than spiritual.  Then Nelson takes credit saying that is parts of the Lord plan.  I also have been the victim of false information given to my by stake presidency which was contradictory of the church's handbook.   I believe in Christ, but currently it is hard to believe in the authorities that runs the church.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by ctr2961
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[Guest MormonGator]

@ctr2961-

 

Your post is just heartbreaking. I'm sorry that the changes in the church are causing you this much distress. That alone is a good sign-if they weren't causing you discomfort, that would you mean you no longer care. Distress is much better than apathy. 

I can not offer you any advice. I'm glad your foundation is strong, you said you still believe in Christ. If you think this is His church, then the best thing you can do is pray for those who lead it and stay in it. 

Sorry you are going though this my friend. 

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, ctr2961 said:

The changes that are being or made are the things that keep me busy and active in the church. 

Not your testimony?

I understand why you have consternation over the matter. But the reason you should or should not be active in the church is because you know it's true. If you don't, you need to find out. If you find out, then you know it's led by God, not by Pres. Nelson. And if it's led by God and you know it, then get on board.

[ctr2961]

8 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Not your testimony?

I understand why you have consternation over the matter. But the reason you should or should not be active in the church is because you know it's true. If you don't, you need to find out. If you find out, then you know it's led by God, not by Pres. Nelson. And if it's led by God and you know it, then get on board.

My testimony is the final string that holds me the church.  I believe and love Christ. I know should trust Nelson and the GA, but when I think of them I get filled with anger. 

Why is it so easy to trust in the Lord but not in People?  Am I just too over reacting?  I feel like I am missing something here.

Old Discussion - The one fact that bothers me that in the past, I was told by a Stake Presidency(not president) person and his wife that the families has priority over the singles when bearing testimonies.  I would save my testimony for the singles ward. Because of this I haven't bear my testimony at the podium for years.  The Stake presidency is under the General Authority which is under the Prophet.  When Christ tells me one thing and the authority tells me another.  What should I think?

[zil]

1 hour ago, ctr2961 said:

I am a single person who has no family support from my birth family.  20 Years ago, my family made me make  a choice between the church and my family, I choose the Church.  Now I am regetting it.

Since Nelson has become the prophet I been having very strong angry feelings about the changes he and general authority has made in the church.  The changes that are being or made are the things that keep me busy and active in the church.  Now with these programs being removed, I will have not any anymore involvement in the church except for the 2 hour.  I know the 2 hour will be used for people to plan activities instead of using it for what is supposed to be.  The new home plan program will not be good since I am a single and the other singles are busy with their families, so doing study groups are out of the question.  

I want to be involvement more with the church, not follow Nelson's plan to be more disconnected.  My home is empty and feels dead. 

Two weeks ago, I told my Bishop that I am planning to leave the church since there is nothing for me to do.  The elder's quorum leaders came over and discussed with me about this and I was fine until I heard about the church pagents being banned by the General Authority. 

What should I been thinking.  How do I say my ward if my family, when I barely see them and rarely talk to them(too busy planning activities).

Also we are supposed to "focus on gospel learning in their homes ", but how do I do that when I barely understand the principles of the church and the gospel?  I am banging my head literally try to understand what I am reading.

My brain been on overdrive about this for the past several weeks and I don't understand really why.  I love Christ, but I currently can not support Nelson, and the currently authority. 

CTR, I understand, share, and empathize with a lot of what you're saying above, especially about your situation compared to Church ideals.

Can you explain more about the bit I put in bold?  Were you heavily involved in scouting?  Pageants or similar local celebrations?  Are you simply referring to how the changes will effectively cut your time in Sunday School and Priesthood in half?  Or is there some calling I'm missing that will be cut with the 2-hour change next year?  I'm just looking to understand this better.

Also, do I understand correctly that you expect the Elder's Quorum in your ward to use the 2nd and 4th Sundays to plan rather than to teach / discuss doctrine?

Just trying to get a better understanding of these specifics.

[zil]

1 minute ago, ctr2961 said:

I was told by a Stake Presidency(not president) person and his wife that the families has priority over the singles when bearing testimonies. 

This is a load of crap.  Chalk it up to mortal weakness and ignore it.  Get up and bear testimony as often as you wish (on fast Sunday, not in the middle of someone's talk ).

3 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

When Christ tells me one thing and the authority tells me another.  What should I think?

IMO, this case is so clear that I would say you should think the above - mortal weakness.  If this person repeated telling me such a thing, I would ask to see the specific scripture and/or handbook section from which this instruction comes - he won't be able to produce it.

[ctr2961]

Yes, I was a major follower of LDS Scouting.  Been involved since 2007.  I am a Woodbadge Leader Training with the council.  I been encourage to stay active the council, but the church is leading away(not taking any more applications or activies). 

With being single, and very ignorant about the church coming from nonLDS family, I have always struggled with the Book of Mormon and Priesthood teachings.  We have a lot of discussions, but little practical knowledge.   Sunday school is barely enough for me to learn anything since most of the adults are experts who talk over my head several times.  With Priesthood, we were following going over blessings that I have only read in the priesthood  hand book but never made clear on how to apply them.  I have only done one blessing of health in my entire life.  Also with no wife or children my life is only work and church since the only singles are 2 hours away in a different stakes.  So I go to work, come home, read my scriptures and go to bed.  On Sunday, I enjoy the classes 3 hours and wait around but nothing happens and I go back to an empty home. Now with no scouting, and less classes there is less spirt to feel.  The family is a strong family ward, but not a strong ward to be a single. 

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

So I go to work, come home, read my scriptures and go to bed. 

Have you thought about getting a hobby? Joining a club? Not an insult, just asking. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by MormonGator

[ctr2961]

8 minutes ago, zil said:

This is a load of crap.  Chalk it up to mortal weakness and ignore it.  Get up and bear testimony as often as you wish (on fast Sunday, not in the middle of someone's talk ).

 

That was What my Elder Quorum Leader said to me when he found out why I haven't bored my testimony for years.  He saw me do it once but never again and wondered why.  He knew I had a strong testimony, but was always reserved about giving it.

[ctr2961]

I do have several hobbies(computer programming, scout council activities, reading).  I just to learn MORE about the church instead of buying books online and struggle with their meanings.  I also do date out of the church, but women in my area is too scary(drunk, drugged, or only talks about their ex).

 

While I am typing this,  I am rewiring a Linux OS for my rasbian Pi cluster(18 machines).  Tells you how boring my life is.

Edited October 30, 2018 by ctr2961

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Tells you how boring my life is.

lol. It's not boring my friend-I just don't want you to get burned out from the church. Sometimes we need to take a break for a bit. 

[Vort]

26 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Old Discussion - The one fact that bothers me that in the past, I was told by a Stake Presidency(not president) person and his wife that the families has priority over the singles when bearing testimonies.

Nonsense. Either the stake presidency counselor and his wife gravely misspoke or you misunderstood them. In either case, I'm not sure whether this statement is more comically absurd or just appalling. Maybe both. Fast and testimony meeting is an opportunity for the Saints to bear testimony to each other. You are a Saint. Please bear your testimony.

17 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Yes, I was a major follower of LDS Scouting.  Been involved since 2007.  I am a Woodbadge Leader Training with the council.  I been encourage to stay active the council, but the church is leading away(not taking any more applications or activies).

As Elder Holland pointed out, the Church and Scouting are not divorcing. The Church simply needs to go another direction. My own son will (probably) remain in Scouting after the split at the end of 2019.

Honestly, this might be for the best for Scouting, as well. LDS troops were widely known for being inferior to non-LDS troops, at least structurally, because they skimmed off the older boys who are supposed to supply the leadership. Scouting's whole "celebrating homosexuality" thing has been deeply unfortunate, if predictable in today's bizarre political climate. But other things that Scouting is trying to do, such as bringing girls into the mix, are not necessarily bad at all. But they make it increasingly difficult for the Church, which has a different program for the young women. So it's probably good for both entities to pursue different paths at this point.

ctr2961, if you live near Seattle, drop me a private mail and let's get together for FHE or Sunday study or something. You are needed and wanted in the Church. Please believe that.

[zil]

9 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Yes, I was a major follower of LDS Scouting.  Been involved since 2007.  I am a Woodbadge Leader Training with the council.  I been encourage to stay active the council, but the church is leading away(not taking any more applications or activies).  

You know the Church will have a replacement for this, right, and that there's no reason you wouldn't be able to serve in that organization just as you have served in the scouting organization?

11 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

With being single, and very ignorant about the church coming from nonLDS family, I have always struggled with the Book of Mormon and Priesthood teachings.  We have a lot of discussions, but little practical knowledge.   Sunday school is barely enough for me to learn anything since most of the adults are experts who talk over my head several times.  With Priesthood, we were following going over blessings that I have only read in the priesthood  hand book but never made clear on how to apply them.

This would be a perfect thing to work on with your ministering brothers - you could explain that you would like them to help you systematically work through various topics from the beginning, and thereby strengthen your understanding of doctrine, covenants, and ordinances. You could set up a regular schedule - whether it's monthly, every other week, every week, whatever you can work out.  If your ministering brothers aren't willing / able to do this, go to the EQP and ask him for different ones who are / can.  I would think ministering brothers would jump at this as a clear way for them to minister.

Beyond that, I agree with @MormonGator.  Finding a personal interest in which to engage is a worthy goal and one that has the ability to lift one's spirits by an inordinate amount.  If it's one that enables you to interact with others who share the same hobby / interest, it will be all the better.  I know starting this can be extremely hard, especially breaking into an existing group of people.  Try anyway.  Commit to sticking it out even though there will be times when it feels like there's no point.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, ctr2961 said:

Am I just too over reacting?

Obviously, yes.

1 hour ago, ctr2961 said:

When Christ tells me one thing and the authority tells me another.

A stake presidency member and his wife have no authority to tell you any such thing. Your presumption that they do is flawed.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, ctr2961 said:

Sunday school is barely enough for me to learn anything since most of the adults are experts who talk over my head several times.

Sounds like the addition of home study is a good solution for you then.

1 hour ago, ctr2961 said:

Now with no scouting, and less classes there is less spirt to feel.

The Spirit is not tied to scouting or classes.

1 hour ago, ctr2961 said:

Also with no wife or children my life

Sounds like a goal to work towards.

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, ctr2961 said:

Since Nelson has become the prophet I been having very strong angry feelings about the changes he and general authority has made in the church.  The changes that are being or made are the things that keep me busy and active in the church.  Now with these programs being removed, I will have not any anymore involvement in the church except for the 2 hour.  I know the 2 hour will be used for people to plan activities instead of using it for what is supposed to be.  The new home plan program will not be good since I am a single and the other singles are busy with their families, so doing study groups are out of the question.  

Do you attend a family ward or just the singles ward?  I'd recommend attending a family ward and asking for a ministering brother right away who will allow you to go to their house for weekly studies.

3 hours ago, ctr2961 said:

I want to be involvement more with the church, not follow Nelson's plan to be more disconnected.  My home is empty and feels dead.

If it is just you, then I don't blame you.  I'd feel the same way if I lived alone.

3 hours ago, ctr2961 said:

Two weeks ago, I told my Bishop that I am planning to leave the church since there is nothing for me to do. 

Again, if you attend a family ward, ask to be assigned as a ministering brother to a family who needs a LOT of help.

Here's a great hint: You really feel the influence of the Savior when you are serving others.  Instead of being outraged at a lack of influence of class time, ask for more opportunities to serve.  There is a family out there who needs a lot of help.  And you're the person to be that additional mentor to the children and support for the parents.

3 hours ago, ctr2961 said:

The elder's quorum leaders came over and discussed with me about this and I was fine until I heard about the church pagents being banned by the General Authority. 

I really don't understand how this affects anyone.  You'll have to explain this to me.  Are you in one of these pageants?

3 hours ago, ctr2961 said:

What should I been thinking.  How do I say my ward if my family, when I barely see them and rarely talk to them(too busy planning activities).

Go to a family ward.

3 hours ago, ctr2961 said:

Also we are supposed to "focus on gospel learning in their homes ", but how do I do that when I barely understand the principles of the church and the gospel?  I am banging my head literally try to understand what I am reading.

One thing, as I said, is that you can pair up with a small family who is active with parents who have a sound understanding of the gospel.  Another thing is to come here a lot and ask questions.  We'd love to help you in your studies.

3 hours ago, ctr2961 said:

My brain been on overdrive about this for the past several weeks and I don't understand really why.  I love Christ, but I currently can not support Nelson, and the currently authority.

I don't understand why either.  I heard all this and I'm not seeing how (even for a single person who is new to the gospel) why this is driving you nuts. If you assume that my suggestions above actually address your foreseen problems, what is upsetting about these changes?

3 hours ago, ctr2961 said:

I know that I should trust in the Lord, but it just feels that this like more of a Business Rebranding instead of a Spirital Plan.  Many of these activities I have found out was cut due to mudane reasons than spiritual. 

What do you mean?  I haven't heard anything this effect.  How do you know this?  You have to understand that we only know a small part of everything.  Recognize that the Lord's ways are not our ways.  What seems like mundane reasons to us actually turn out to be spiritual. And we only notice this as time goes on.

3 hours ago, ctr2961 said:

Then Nelson takes credit saying that is parts of the Lord plan.  I also have been the victim of false information given to my by stake presidency which was contradictory of the church's handbook.   I believe in Christ, but currently it is hard to believe in the authorities that runs the church.

I still have no idea what you're talking about.  It looks like you need to bring this up to the Stake President.

1 hour ago, ctr2961 said:

My testimony is the final string that holds me the church.  I believe and love Christ. I know should trust Nelson and the GA, but when I think of them I get filled with anger. 

Why is it so easy to trust in the Lord but not in People?  Am I just too over reacting?  I feel like I am missing something here.

 

Yes, you're overreacting.  I really do feel some empathy here.  But I have no idea why you're reacting this way.  Help me understand.

[ctr2961]

26 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Sounds like the addition of home study is a good solution for you then.

 

Then if I have a question who do I ask?  I asked one question in Sunday School to get an answer and get twenty different parables and experiences.  At the end of the class, I feel that my answer was never answered.

[Guest MormonGator]

17 minutes ago, ctr2961 said:

Then if I have a question who do I ask?  I asked one question in Sunday School to get an answer and get twenty different parables and experiences.  At the end of the class, I feel that my answer was never answered.

That happened at my old ward once or twice. Generally speaking, the answer that is closest to official church teaching is probably the most correct.

Do you have any trusted friends in the ward you attend? If you don't, I know exactly how you feel. I don't have any either.  It doesn't bother me that much, I have wonderful friends who aren't members of the church, and my close friends who are LDS don't live near me. 

Many of the more established posters here ( @Vort,  @Just_A_Guy @zil, @mordorbund) are wonderful at answering questions in a correct and compassionate way. They've helped me out big time, and if you have any questions I'm sure they could help you out too! 

Edited October 30, 2018 by MormonGator

[anatess2]

2 hours ago, ctr2961 said:

Yes, I was a major follower of LDS Scouting.  Been involved since 2007.  I am a Woodbadge Leader Training with the council.  I been encourage to stay active the council, but the church is leading away(not taking any more applications or activies). 

With being single, and very ignorant about the church coming from nonLDS family, I have always struggled with the Book of Mormon and Priesthood teachings.  We have a lot of discussions, but little practical knowledge.   Sunday school is barely enough for me to learn anything since most of the adults are experts who talk over my head several times.  With Priesthood, we were following going over blessings that I have only read in the priesthood  hand book but never made clear on how to apply them.  I have only done one blessing of health in my entire life.  Also with no wife or children my life is only work and church since the only singles are 2 hours away in a different stakes.  So I go to work, come home, read my scriptures and go to bed.  On Sunday, I enjoy the classes 3 hours and wait around but nothing happens and I go back to an empty home. Now with no scouting, and less classes there is less spirt to feel.  The family is a strong family ward, but not a strong ward to be a single. 

Hi ctr, believe it or not, I'm one of those that don't like the new changes.  It's doubly hard for me because President Monson was my husband and I's favorite prophet.  I sustained President Nelson and have faith that he is led by Christ but I still have to build a testimony of that.

So, about these changes... I don't like it.  I do not like that church is 2 hours instead of 3.  I would have no problem if church is 4 hours instead of 3.  I don't like that the personal and family scripture study is thought of as a "replacement" of that 1 hour class on the Sabbath.  I believe that personal and family scripture study is a given - we do it everyday.  My husband is the scoutmaster.  I'm a cub den leader.  My husband's father was my husband's scoutmaster when he was in boy scouts.  We are very big on scouts as a family and my son just got his eagle.  The changes to the BSA and the church program is causing us a lot of grief.

That said... I have a testimony that the restored gospel is true and that the LDS Church is the true church that Christ organized on earth.  Therefore, although I struggle through these changes, I have faith that God has a plan for these things, I just haven't figured out what that plan is.

So, this is what I'm doing - For a few weeks now, I've been going through lds.org and reading through President Nelson's talks from before he became President of the Church.  There are several gems there that I loved before and so I read through them again to build that testimony of his authority.  I've prayed about these changes - haven't received the comfort of the Spirit on them yet, though - but last Sunday, I was supposed to teach CTR5 (I have 2 callings) but, it just so happened that because a lot of our ward families traveled to Panama City to do disaster relief, I ended up with no kids to teach!  So, I attended Relief Society.  And it just so happened that they were talking about Personal Scripture Study!  It was like an answer to my prayer because as the teacher discussed personal scripture study, she touched on the Sunday Meeting changes and how it came after the changes to the Ministering program and she touched on how we can use the new scripture study manuals in our personal scripture study, family scripture study, and in our Ministering.  So, now I have this plan to use the extra hour on the Sabbath to do personal scripture study that I can then share with my ministering sisters as well as for our Family Home Evening (which my family doesn't really have an "official Monday FHE", we have FHE every day).

Anyway, I'm not quite there yet with being comfortable with these changes.  But I put my trust and faith in God that and my testimony that the restored gospel is true and the LDS Church is the church of Christ on earth.

Hope this helps.

P.S.  Regarding your question of personal study - who do you ask if you have a question - my answer to that is... you ask God.  I've been studying the same scriptures all my life (I'm middle aged), same pages, same stories, over and over... and there are still things I don't have complete understanding of yet.  I study and ponder on something and I read every trusted material I have on it (talks, lesson manuals etc.) and if it doesn't quite make sense I set it aside for later.  Scripture study takes a lifetime and it is personal.  No amount of "other people teaching you the meaning of the scriptures" will make it understandable to you.  It takes a personal revelation from the Holy Ghost.  So, if you think of scripture study as a lifetime endeavor instead of a "Class", then you'll have a better perspective of it and you won't feel like you have to understand everything already.

Edited October 30, 2018 by anatess2

[ctr2961]

8 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

That happened at my old ward once or twice. Generally speaking, the answer that is closest to official church teaching is probably the most correct.

Do you have any trusted friends in the ward you attend? If you don't, I know exactly how you feel. I don't have one either. Many of the more established posters here ( @Vort,  @Just_A_Guy @zil, @mordorbund) are wonderful at answering questions in a correct and compassionate way. They've helped me out big time, and if you have any questions I'm sure they could help you out too! 

That the problem with my ward.  I have no "friends" in the ward.  Most of my friends has moved and members left are familes that are too busy to associate with anyone.  I was in the hospital for 6 months and keep calling the bishopric for a blessing and no one showed.  I had a nurse call the Church HQ(LDS.org) to get a phone number from missionary to do a blessing.

 

In the church defense, the phone number I had was from a old bulletin where the Bishop and the ward Secretary was no longer in the ward.

Edited October 30, 2018 by ctr2961

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, ctr2961 said:

That the problem with my ward.  I have no "friends" in the ward.  Most of my friends has moved and members left are familes that are too busy to associate with anyone.  I was in the hospital for 6 months and keep calling the bishopric for a blessing and no one showed.  I had a nurse call the Church HQ(LDS.org) to get a phone number from missionary to do a blessing.

 That is absolutely heartbreaking. I'm so sorry my friend. I know what it's like to not fit in with a ward. If can just be so crushing. Makes it very heart to keep being active. I'm proud of you for remaining active.