Special Music for Sacrament


Guest
 Share

Recommended Posts

Looking for suggestions.

As the ward Music Chair, the bishop came to me and asked my thoughts on what to do with music for the new block schedule.  Sacrament meeting is being reduced by 15 minutes.  That basically means that we will be minus one speaker and no rest hymn (which is where our special musical numbers would be).

I figured that the Choir would be able to sing the opening or closing hymn.  But individual musical pieces would not work for that. 

Any ideas where we could insert music or how?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

no rest hymn (which is where our special musical numbers would be).

Not sure why they couldn't, on occasion, still do a special musical number and ask the speakers to speak for less time (or drop the youth speaker, or however it is the bishop wants to arrange things).

4 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I figured that the Choir would be able to sing the opening or closing hymn.

OK.

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

But individual musical pieces would not work for that.

I guess I don't understand what "individual musical pieces" means.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, zil said:

Not sure why they couldn't, on occasion, still do a special musical number and ask the speakers to speak for less time (or drop the youth speaker, or however it is the bishop wants to arrange things).

Sacrament Hymn

Sacrament

Musical number

Speaker

Closing Hymn

Kinda clunky schedule.

I had also suggested that they ask the adult speaker to speak for 5 minutes less.  We'll see if that works out.

2 minutes ago, zil said:

I guess I don't understand what "individual musical pieces" means.

As in: Music performed by an individual or few as opposed to an entire choir.  I just don't see a soloist singing the closing hymn as "fitting the frame" so to speak.  Maybe we'll just have to try that out and see.  We're entering a time of change after all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Given that they're cutting the opening prayer and all hymns from the second hour, apparently the music part is being downplayed.  Perhaps this does indeed mean that choirs and/or special musical numbers will either fade or be used more rarely, maybe even only as a special music-oriented meeting.

You can fit two speakers in there, they just can't take 15 minutes each.  Ways to free up more time for the talks and/or music:

  • No announcements - or the only announcement is "please see the bulletin for announcements" - I know this will be painful for a lot of people, but only until we adjust.
  • Shorter talks (some will be greatly improved by this; some words of instruction about stand-up comedy or family introductions may be in order when folks are invited to speak).
  • More young men passing the sacrament - in my ward, they could easily add 2 more people and thereby speed things up and it would actually be more reverent (and better able to handle fluctuations in attendance) - I can't for the life of me figure out why they don't, unless we don't have enough worthy young men and they don't want adults to do it.  (This does not mean I'm in a rush to hurry through this portion of the meeting, just that logistically, it could be done and still be reverent.)
  • Some callings and releases are being moved from Sacrament meeting to the 2nd hour.  Don't know that this will save much time for the Sacrament meeting, but minutes are made up of seconds...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, zil said:

Given that they're cutting the opening prayer and all hymns from the second hour, apparently the music part is being downplayed.  Perhaps this does indeed mean that choirs and/or special musical numbers will either fade or be used more rarely, maybe even only as a special music-oriented meeting.

You can fit two speakers in there, they just can't take 15 minutes each.  Ways to free up more time for the talks and/or music:

  • No announcements - or the only announcement is "please see the bulletin for announcements" - I know this will be painful for a lot of people, but only until we adjust.
  • Shorter talks (some will be greatly improved by this; some words of instruction about stand-up comedy or family introductions may be in order when folks are invited to speak).
  • More young men passing the sacrament - in my ward, they could easily add 2 more people and thereby speed things up and it would actually be more reverent (and better able to handle fluctuations in attendance) - I can't for the life of me figure out why they don't, unless we don't have enough worthy young men and they don't want adults to do it.  (This does not mean I'm in a rush to hurry through this portion of the meeting, just that logistically, it could be done and still be reverent.)
  • Some callings and releases are being moved from Sacrament meeting to the 2nd hour.  Don't know that this will save much time for the Sacrament meeting, but minutes are made up of seconds...

I don't see why all those things are necessary.  If you cut out the first adult speaker, you've already cut out most or all of that 15 minute deficit.

I had asked earlier why we even have speakers for Sacrament anyway.  No one seemed to know why.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I had asked earlier why we even have speakers for Sacrament anyway.  No one seemed to know why. 

Hmm.  That's an interesting question.  One could just as easily ask why we have anything other than the sacrament hymn and passing of the sacrament.

While I couldn't explain why any given element was added to our sacrament meeting, I could easily find many good reasons for all the existing elements to exist - but those would be my after-the-fact explanations, not the original reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, zil said:

Hmm.  That's an interesting question.  One could just as easily ask why we have anything other than the sacrament hymn and passing of the sacrament.

While I couldn't explain why any given element was added to our sacrament meeting, I could easily find many good reasons for all the existing elements to exist - but those would be my after-the-fact explanations, not the original reasons.

Yes, we could.

But we have to open with a prayer and close with a prayer. 

We have to administer the sacrament.

And it is the most convenient place to make announcements and do ward business.

The music is there to help invite the Spirit.

Do talks do the same thing? Often times not (IMO). Perhaps it is just a legacy item from the practice of minister's sermons.

The point being that between announcements and talks, the announcements appear to be more important.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Point of order, Sacrament is being reduced by 10 minutes (not 15).

A well organized bulletin can preserve some of the remaining time.

Adding more people to pass sacrament is a good option for large wards.

Having one less speaker really won't hurt anyone's feelings.  In my ward, we're planning on going to two speakers, plus the occasional (every 2 - 3 weeks) youth speaker.  If we find it difficult to fit special musical numbers in, we'll schedule youth speakers and musical numbers to be the equivalent of one adult talk, and then have one other talk that same day.

It also wouldn't be unreasonable to have someone speak very briefly on a special experience in their lives, special musical number, and a talk that is the actual sermon.

 

There are a LOT of creative things you can do to utilize the time in Sacrament meeting.  (all of which you could be using now)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

Point of order, Sacrament is being reduced by 10 minutes (not 15).

I've noticed the phenomenon.  It puzzles me.  When the block was first introduced, Sacrament Service was supposed to take 75 min.  Sunday School 45.    Third hour was a full hour.  There was never anything scheduled for moving between classes.

I think it gradually migrated to cut 5 minutes off of the 75.  But other wards they cut out 5 min from Sunday School.

Lately (and I've been in a lot of wards) I haven't seen any full 75 minute Sacrament Services.  I've never seen any announcement about it.  I might have missed something.

20 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

Having one less speaker really won't hurt anyone's feelings.  In my ward, we're planning on going to two speakers, plus the occasional (every 2 - 3 weeks) youth speaker.  If we find it difficult to fit special musical numbers in, we'll schedule youth speakers and musical numbers to be the equivalent of one adult talk, and then have one other talk that same day.

It also wouldn't be unreasonable to have someone speak very briefly on a special experience in their lives, special musical number, and a talk that is the actual sermon.

I'm with you on these.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I've noticed the phenomenon.  It puzzles me.  When the block was first introduced, Sacrament Service was supposed to take 75 min.  Sunday School 45.    Third hour was a full hour.  There was never anything scheduled for moving between classes.

I think it gradually migrated to cut 5 minutes off of the 75.  But other wards they cut out 5 min from Sunday School.

Lately (and I've been in a lot of wards) I haven't seen any full 75 minute Sacrament Services.  I've never seen any announcement about it.  I might have missed something.

I'm with you on these.

Our ward has been doing 60 minutes sacrament meeting except on fast sundays when it is 70.  Then we have 10 minutes break, then Sunday School for 50 minutes, then 10 minutes break, then RS for 50 minutes.  Fast Sundays make Sunday School 40 minutes.  We've had this schedule for as long as I've been in this ward.

P.S.  The branch in the Philippines also has 60 minutes sacrament meeting, but there's no "break".  Sunday School and RS are full hour as well.  The building is just one big room and they just close the dividers for the classes.

Edited by anatess2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

When the block was first introduced, Sacrament Service was supposed to take 75 min.  Sunday School 45.    Third hour was a full hour.  There was never anything scheduled for moving between classes.

I've never seen or experienced that.

70min Sacrament

10 min break

40 min Sunday School

10 min break

50 min RS / Priesthood

15 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I've never seen any announcement about it.  I might have missed something.

Handbook 2, if they haven't changed it already, shows the above schedule: 70-10-40-10-50.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, zil said:

I've never seen or experienced that.

Handbook 2, if they haven't changed it already, shows the above schedule: 70-10-40-10-50.

Well, then I missed something.  We were both old enough to remember the introduction of the block.  And the original paperwork that was handed out at that time was 75 minutes.  Perhaps there was a 5 minute break scheduled in there (inclusive within the 75) but I didn't see it.

So, today it is 70.  ok.

And they don't follow the handbook in the Philipines.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't find the chart on the HTML version, but the link here is to the PDF of the 2010 Handbook 2.  On page 153, it designates 70 minutes for Sacrament meeting.

As far as I can remember, it was the same duration in the 1998 edition of the handbook.

https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/08702_eng.pdf?lang=eng

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

I can't find the chart on the HTML version, but the link here is to the PDF of the 2010 Handbook 2.  On page 153, it designates 70 minutes for Sacrament meeting.

As far as I can remember, it was the same duration in the 1998 edition of the handbook.

https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/08702_eng.pdf?lang=eng

The original was back in the 80s as I recall.  Could have been late 70s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Well, then I missed something.  We were both old enough to remember the introduction of the block.  And the original paperwork that was handed out at that time was 75 minutes.  Perhaps there was a 5 minute break scheduled in there (inclusive within the 75) but I didn't see it.

So, today it is 70.  ok.

And they don't follow the handbook in the Philipines.

They don't.  Because, the schedule is written on the board as 60, 60 ,60 but in reality, they don't pay attention to the clock.  Church in that branch can be an all day affair.  There was one time when Sunday School ended up to be an hour and a half and RS went almost 2 hours.  The kids either sat with their mothers in RS or played basketball with their dads.  After we got out of RS, they all just hung around the basketball court eating and talking.  That's one thing I'm interested to find out - what they're gonna do with the new 2 hour schedule because, in that branch, nobody wants to go home on Sunday.

Edited by anatess2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems to me that very often, LDS sacrament meetings can come off as very disjointed with the disparate elements not necessarily all working together to reinforce a common theme.  Shortening the meeting could be a step towards making it more cohesive—one youth speaker and one adult “sermon” on a topic chosen by the bishopric, but with the adult sermon-giver being empowered to draw on the resources of the ward music director and make the final selection of hymns and a musical number for the meeting.  Being the “sermon giver” would probably be an even more intimidating experience than it currently is—but I wonder whether the quality of many sacrament meetings might not improve a bit.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

It seems to me that very often, LDS sacrament meetings can come off as very disjointed with the disparate elements not necessarily all working together to reinforce a common theme.  Shortening the meeting could be a step towards making it more cohesive—one youth speaker and one adult “sermon” on a topic chosen by the bishopric, but with the adult sermon-giver being empowered to draw on the resources of the ward music director and make the final selection of hymns and a musical number for the meeting.  Being the “sermon giver” would probably be an even more intimidating experience than it currently is—but I wonder whether the quality of many sacrament meetings might not improve a bit.  

Here's an FYI.

As music directors we're supposed to try to pick hymns that go along with the topic.  Since we follow the Come Follow Me curriculum, the topic lasts a full month.  I had asked the music chair in another ward in our stake what process she went through to pick the songs.  Because it really takes time to go through this choosing process.  She told me that she only picks maybe one song per week that fits the topic.  The rest are whatever she feels like.  It was apparently too much work to really get all of them to match without too much repetition from month to month.

Well, I considered that.  But I actually take the time to try to match the opening, rest, and closing hymns to the topic.  The Sacrament hymn is from (whatever the numbers are) about 160 to 199 or so? Do the math and you'll find that some sacrament hymns have to be recycled through a 12 month period.

The rest of the hymns are actually difficult to line up.  I really try not to repeat a song within the calendar year.  With so many songs that fit with multiple topics, many of which are old favorites, it is difficult to fit them all in and not repeat.

Then the bishop gave me a request (I don't know if it was him personally or if he was told this from the Brethren) that I should try to introduce at least one song per month that is less familiar.  Well, yeah.  That's difficult.  Since only about 1/3 of the ward even sings the hymns at all, give them one that they haven't heard before?  And it is probably two or three men in the entire ward plus about a dozen women and children singing the song.  Well, they are there.  So, we ought to learn them.

BTW, there is one song that I've just recently discovered that is absolutely beautiful.

https://www.lds.org/music/library/hymns/the-wintry-day-descending-to-its-close?lang=eng

But I'm not sure how many will be familiar with it.  I'm planning on scheduling this for New Year's.

EDIT: If the speaker asks for a particular song, I check to see if it is a repeat.  If not within a month or so, I'll make the change.  And sometimes, because I'm looking for songs that fit the topic, the speaker actually has an already scheduled hymn in his talk.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Here's an FYI.

As music directors we're supposed to try to pick hymns that go along with the topic.  Since we follow the Come Follow Me curriculum, the topic lasts a full month.  I had asked the music chair in another ward in our stake what process she went through to pick the songs.  Because it really takes time to go through this choosing process.  She told me that she only picks maybe one song per week that fits the topic.  The rest are whatever she feels like.  It was apparently too much work to really get all of them to match without too much repetition from month to month.

Well, I considered that.  But I actually take the time to try to match the opening, rest, and closing hymns to the topic.  The Sacrament hymn is from (whatever the numbers are) about 160 to 199 or so? Do the math and you'll find that some sacrament hymns have to be recycled through a 12 month period.

The rest of the hymns are actually difficult to line up.  I really try not to repeat a song within the calendar year.  With so many songs that fit with multiple topics, many of which are old favorites, it is difficult to fit them all in and not repeat.

Then the bishop gave me a request (I don't know if it was him personally or if he was told this from the Brethren) that I should try to introduce at least one song per month that is less familiar.  Well, yeah.  That's difficult.  Since only about 1/3 of the ward even sings the hymns at all, give them one that they haven't heard before?  And it is probably two or three men in the entire ward plus about a dozen women and children singing the song.  Well, they are there.  So, we ought to learn them.

BTW, there is one song that I've just recently discovered that is absolutely beautiful.

https://www.lds.org/music/library/hymns/the-wintry-day-descending-to-its-close?lang=eng

But I'm not sure how many will be familiar with it.  I'm planning on scheduling this for New Year's.

EDIT: If the speaker asks for a particular song, I check to see if it is a repeat.  If not within a month or so, I'll make the change.  And sometimes, because I'm looking for songs that fit the topic, the speaker actually has an already scheduled hymn in his talk.

When I was Catholic, I was the cantor for the masses that didn't have a choir.  The cantor's job is to lead the congregation in singing.  This is not just conducting, it's also singing.  So, if the congregation is familiar with the hymn, I just conduct the music.  If they're not, I sing it so they can follow along.  If the priest does a cantata, then I do all the responses in cantata too and the congregation follows along (no hymnbook). 

So, in that LDS branch in the Philippines, they didn't have a music director.  They had the chorister who picks the songs every week.  They didn't have a pianist either.  They have an electronic piano that has preset hymns... I'd say about 20 of them?  All of the members are converts within 5 years or less so they're not familiar with the hymnbook.  So, they sing the same 20 songs over and over and then have some other songs sang acapela (Jesus once of humble birth, ready, sing!). 

When I was there, I volunteered to be the pianist.  And so I ended up picking the songs every week because the chorister (a shy girl of 15 years old) insisted on it.  So, I was faced with the challenge of picking a hymn that goes with the topic (the branch president gives us the topic for every week of the next month in advance), checking to see if the ward knows how to sing it, and then making sure I can play it (I suck).  So, what I did is, I did a combination of my experience as a cantor.  The chorister has a beautiful voice, so we would practice every week so she'll learn the new music.  Then she would conduct and sing at the same time which is the same thing she does when they sing hymns acapela - she sings it so the congregation can follow.  This is how we picked the hymns:

1.) We usually pick the same song out of the 20 familiar ones for the sacrament hymn (they don't match the topic - they're always songs of the sacrament or the atonement),

2.) We pick an opening song that may or may not match the topic - the opening is always an upbeat song and may be something to do with the Sabbath (Welcome, welcome Sabbath morning, was one of the ones I used several times) or the topic if there are upbeat songs on it.   We try to pick ones that are either familiar or easy to sing.

3.) The closing may be something to do with the topic or something about parting (Lord we ask thee ere we part, was another one I used several times). 

4.)  Now, the intermediate song is ALWAYS something to do with the topic and is always something the congregation doesn't know yet (so they can expand their repertoire).  The good thing about Filipinos is most of them know how to read the music in the hymnbook (music is a required subject in elementary school), so by the 2nd verse, they'd all be singing along pretty good. 

We didn't mind using the same hymns twice or more in a single month (like we have used an intermediate hymn for a closing hymn the following Sunday).  Anyway, don't know if that would work in other wards.

In our ward, the music director picks the songs a few weeks in advance and gives the unfamiliar ones to the RS President and EQ President to "practice" during RS/EQ.  Our RS has practice hymn after the announcements.

Edited by anatess2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

So Carb, with the meetings shortened by about 10% are you going to conduct the hymns 10% faster? 

It does say this song ought to be sung “reverently”... but we only got 1 minute so let’s make it a march

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, askandanswer said:

So Carb, with the meetings shortened by about 10% are you going to conduct the hymns 10% faster? 

Another person is the chorister.  But I might suggest it.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Fether said:

Perhaps a prelude musical number that plays right before the bishop goes up and begins the meeting?? Not sure if the church has a standard for that.

Our choir used to do this, but we gave it up for a few reasons. First, it can take too long to settle the congregation down, and for a minute or two the talking and singing are competing with each other. Second, all the late-comes who come in after the sacrament is passed miss out on hearing the choir. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share