Lost Boy Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 To clarify a little more. The woman had the abortion before she became a member of the church. If you were a single guy looking to get married, would you date a woman who had an abortion? What if you never asked and you got married and then found out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 Yes of course. If she won't kick me aside for my various sins and failures, how dare I do the same to her? We forget that St. Paul of Tarsus murdered Christians before he was converted. David had an affair and had the womans husband killed. Obviously, God is a God of forgiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) If it was for health, or because the woman were a victim of rape: of course. If it was elective: I’m gonna respectfully disagree with @MormonGator. Killing a fetus for reasons of convenience, in my book, is a horrible thing; and it shouldn’t take membership in the Church to recognize that. I’m very glad for any person who has repented and come to a different point of view; but I think I personally would have a hard time marrying someone who was *ever* capable of something like that. You might as well expect me to date or marry a convicted-but-penitent rapist—I’ll socialize with, worship with, hang out with, minister to, and generally love such a person; but I don’t think I’d have it in me to marry them. Edited November 3, 2018 by Just_A_Guy Vort 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest LDS Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Lost Boy said: To clarify a little more. The woman had the abortion before she became a member of the church. If you were a single guy looking to get married, would you date a woman who had an abortion? What if you never asked and you got married and then found out? That would be a tough choice for me, but if she had truly repented of her sin and was remorseful? I would have to say yes. I believe in the power of the grace of Christ, and I believe someone can be changed by his power. Many sin in ignorance, and I would consider this example to be the same as the Anti Nephi Lehi's who repented pf the murders they had committed in ignorance. If she was in any way proud of, ambivalent, or dismissive of the avortion that would be an instant deal breaker for me. Abortion is a hideous sin, and I would have to KNOW she was remorseful and repentant of the action before I would ever move forward with dating her. If she lied to me, and I found out afterwards as per your second scenario (which is a big lie of omission to me), I would be furious. That's a trust issue, and it would seriously harm my marriage. I'm not a believier in divorce, and I would hope we could work through this, but a lie that serious before we even got married would make me question the basis of my relationship with her. Edited November 4, 2018 by Midwest LDS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted November 3, 2018 Report Share Posted November 3, 2018 21 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said: : I’m gonna respectfully disagree with @MormonGator. Abortion is the most controversial issue out there. I totally understand and accept that not everyone will agree with me, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 hour ago, MormonGator said: Yes of course. If she won't kick me aside for my various sins and failures, how dare I do the same to her? We forget that St. Paul of Tarsus murdered Christians before he was converted. David had an affair and had the womans husband killed. Obviously, God is a God of forgiveness. This is my thoughts as well. Granted, it would a lonnng series of conversation between myself, the other person, and Christ about things. If it were a non-elective decision, then we'd have a long conversation still, but to make sure she's ok emotionally. If there's nothing to repent/forgive, then that part of the conversation is very short. If she didn't tell of something this huge... the "why not" would be a big deal in how I wish it. This something that should be told beforehand. Midwest LDS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 I don't think there is a right or a wrong answer to this question, really. It's a great question, don't get me wrong, but one that everyone will have a different opinion on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said: If it was for health, or because the woman were a victim of rape: of course. If it was elective: I’m gonna respectfully disagree with @MormonGator. Killing a fetus for reasons of convenience, in my book, is a horrible thing; and it shouldn’t take membership in the Church to recognize that. I’m very glad for any person who has repented and come to a different point of view; but I think I personally would have a hard time marrying someone who was *ever* capable of something like that. You might as well expect me to date or marry a convicted-but-penitent rapist—I’ll socialize with, worship with, hang out with, minister to, and generally love such a person; but I don’t think I’d have it in me to marry them. I'm kinda similar. But I'm not sure if the reasoning is the same. I don't consider that the person is still tainted because they had sinned once-upon-a-time. And, yes, abortion if more serious than others. But here are the nuances that I consider: 1. People believe that one cannot truly repent of such a serious sin. Perhaps, in the real world, we cannot "know" if they had truly repented. And for safety sake, we don't get into something so involved as marriage based on a hope alone. But I do believe repentance for abortion is possible. It would take prayer to know enough for the sake of marriage. 2. I don't necessarily consider the sin in such a situation. I consider after effects and mortal consequences. It would be like someone getting a divorce with small children. Do I want the responsibility of raising these children not knowing whether they'd ever accept me as their father? Do I want to deal with the extra baggage that comes with dealing with the ex-husband? The woman may be completely innocent of anything. But there are still mortal consequences that we have to deal with. Such things need to be taken into account when considering marriage. Abortion is the same. There are going to be emotional, moral, spiritual, and political realities to deal with in such a situation. When your children want to have an abortion, and they know Mommie had an abortion, what are you going to say? She repented? Is that going to do anything for the children who grow up and want an abortion? Politically, what kind of background did she come from that said it was perfectly okay to have a purely elective abortion? That's not going to change easily. Differing politics is as bad as differing religions in a marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Would you date a woman who had murdered someone? I mean it's the same question, right? Just_A_Guy and Vort 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 19 minutes ago, Carborendum said: People believe that one cannot truly repent of such a serious sin. Who believes that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, MormonGator said: Who believes that? Look above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Just now, Carborendum said: Look above. So the atonement of Christ didn't cover all sins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Just now, MormonGator said: So the atonement of Christ didn't cover all sins? I'm not one who believes it. Ask them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 Just now, Carborendum said: I'm not one who believes it. Ask them. You know how stupid and lazy I am @Carborendum. I don't see what you are referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
person0 Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: Would you date a woman who had murdered someone? I mean it's the same question, right? Solely for personal convenience, I might add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
person0 Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said: This is my thoughts as well. Have I been absentminded enough over the past year and a half to not realize you are a man, or did you just say that you would date another woman? Midwest LDS, Jane_Doe and Just_A_Guy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted November 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 I love getting people to think about things. Hopefully this is such a question. I have thought about it quite a bit. I think one really has to consider who God is and what he is capable of. Consider that God knows all. Surely if God knows all, he would know that the abortion was going to happen. I don't believe for a second that if the fetus has a soul, that that soul would be in any way damned. So although a terrible thing abortion is, I don't think you are condemning a life to hell. Rather if the soul exists at that point, it would be treated as any soul who died before the age of accountability. I don't know if any church leader has actually come out and said when a soul enters the body. What we do know is that many women get pregnant and have early miscarriages without them even knowing they were pregnant. So is abortion equivalent to murder? I don't really know, but my gut tells me no. There have been nearly 50 million abortions in the US alone since 1970. Is God going to look on all of these women as murderers? I really hope not. Could I date a woman who had an abortion? Yes. Could I marry one? Yes. What if I found out after marriage that she had had an abortion? That would seriously hurt, but I don't think it is something that I couldn't get over with time and prayer and some help from above. I truly believe God still sees these women as his daughters... Daughters whom he loves. And if he can love them, why can't I? How about the guys that knocked up the women who have abortions? Does the sin not equally fall on their heads as well? I think some of you will try and argue that it is the woman's choice, so no. But I would put it out there that the instigator of the series of events that lead to the horrible choice lies squarely with the guy as well. I personally can't through a stone at someone who came to the decision that an abortion was the solution. It couldn't be easy and it is a decision that will live with them for the rest of their lives. I would hope that if ever I do something horribly wrong, those around me will be able to forgive. Maureen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, Lost Boy said: I personally can't through a stone at someone who came to the decision that an abortion was the solution. It couldn't be easy and it is a decision that will live with them for the rest of their lives. I would hope that if ever I do something horribly wrong, those around me will be able to forgive. Unfortunately, it is a much easier decision than what liberals have been saying for decades. Today, they come right out and say how wonderful a decision it was and have no scruples about it whatsoever. They'd recommend it to everyone. They never struggled with it. I, myself, met a girl in high school who seemed a little "off". But she was "from a good family", really pretty, and a very loose girl. I found out that she had three abortions by the end of her sophomore year in high school. And to hear her talk about it, it was like going to the doctor for a flu shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 30 minutes ago, Carborendum said: Look above. I hope you aren’t referring to me. My position isn’t that repentance is impossible; it’s that notwithstanding repentance, it’s not something I personally would be able to work through vis a vis a potential spouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Just_A_Guy said: I hope you aren’t referring to me. My position isn’t that repentance is impossible; it’s that notwithstanding repentance, it’s not something I personally would be able to work through vis a vis a potential spouse. Nope, I didn't really know what your position was on that particular note. Your post seemed sufficiently ambiguous that I couldn't tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) If the fact she had an abortion was her only quality, then no. But rarely... well actually never...is that the case. Of the question is “does having an abortion disqualify someone to be worthy of marriage” I would say no Edited November 4, 2018 by Fether Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 36 minutes ago, person0 said: Have I been absentminded enough over the past year and a half to not realize you are a man, or did you just say that you would date another woman? Well, it was a hypothetical "if you were" question. person0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 45 minutes ago, Lost Boy said: How about the guys that knocked up the women who have abortions? Does the sin not equally fall on their heads as well? Are you freaking kidding me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahlia Posted November 4, 2018 Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 A lot of men worried about what a woman does. The question should be, 'Would you date or marry a man who wanted to condemn you for something you did before you even met him and before you were a member of the Church?' let’s roll, askandanswer, Lost Boy and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted November 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2018 24 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: Are you freaking kidding me? Actually, I think that is a legit question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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