Intro page and getting Laban's plates

[GaleG]

Hello,
 
I received my Book of Mormon and started reading it.  For a good summary has  
anyone reviewed Larry Anderson's "2 Hour Book of Mormon"?
 
The Introduction page mentions the plates sealed by the hand of Moroni and hid  
up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile".
 
Who is this Gentile?   
 
Other questions comes from reading the attempt to get some plates from Laban.
 
Lehi tells Nephi the Lord commanded him that Nephi and his brothers would go to  
Laban's house and get the plates (1 Nephi 3:3-4). Lehi tells Nephi he is the  
chosen one to get the plates because he was favoured by God for not murmuring like
his brothers (verse 6).  Nephi confirms he is willing to obey the Lord as  
commanded (verse 7).
 
What happened in the mind of Nephi in so short a time that he already begins to
doubt or disbelieve the Lord?  Going contrary to what he said and believed earlier,  
why does he then disobey the Lord's command and consult with his brothers and cast  
lots to see who would actually go into Laban's house to retrieve the plates (verses  
10-11)?  After the lot fell to Laman, Nephi continues his disobedience by staying
back and allowing Laman to go by himself. Then, he begins to feel sorrow when Laman  
is not able to get the plates in the first attempt (verse 14). Earlier he believed  
he and not Laman, was favoured of the Lord to get the plates so its unclear why he  
personally would be sorrowful.
 
Verse 16 is also puzzling - "Wherefore, let us be faithful in keeping the commandments  
of the Lord; therefore let us go down to the land of our fathers inheritance, for  
behold he left gold and silver, and all manner of riches. And all this he hath done  
because of the commandments of the Lord."
 
Assuming Lehi was commanded by the Lord to leave all the family riches back home,
why did Nephi disobey God's command to his father into now retrieving these riches  
in an attempt to get the plates since God never commanded this?
 
Verse 24 shows that Nephi is back on track; now obedient in that all the brothers  
go into Laban's house this time (the second attempt).
 
In verses 28 and 29, why did the angel rebuke Laman and Lemuel for hitting Nephi
with a rod but left out any rebuke for beating their youngest brother Sam?
 
Thank you,
 
Gale

[Jane_Doe]

Hi @GaleG!

6 minutes ago, GaleG said:

The Introduction page mentions the plates sealed by the hand of Moroni and hid  up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile".
 
Who is this Gentile?   

Back in Old Testament times, a person who was a of Abraham's decent/covenant was known as a Jew.  People not of this decent/covenant were known as Gentiles.  In New Testament times, the Gospel is to be preached to all people, regardless of ancestry, so the term has gotten away from the decent part and focused more on the covenant part-- in other words those whom have embraced the Gospel, and those that haven't.

Longer explanation: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/gentile?lang=eng

6 minutes ago, GaleG said:

Other questions comes from reading the attempt to get some plates from Laban.
 
Lehi tells Nephi the Lord commanded him that Nephi and his brothers would go to  Laban's house and get the plates (1 Nephi 3:3-4). Lehi tells Nephi he is the  chosen one to get the plates because he was favoured by God for not murmuring like his brothers (verse 6).  Nephi confirms he is willing to obey the Lord as  commanded (verse 7).

Clarification on verse 6: Lehi tells Nephi that he'll be favored of the Lord because he hasn't murmured.  This isn't say "you are the chosen one to do this task and only you should do it".  After all, Lehi does send all four sons to do this.    Rather what's being said is akin to saying "you're follow God and you'll be blessed because of it"-- a theme repeated over and over again in scripture. 

6 minutes ago, GaleG said:

What happened in the mind of Nephi in so short a time that he already begins to doubt or disbelieve the Lord?  Going contrary to what he said and believed earlier,  why does he then disobey the Lord's command and consult with his brothers and cast  lots to see who would actually go into Laban's house to retrieve the plates (verses  10-11)?  After the lot fell to Laman, Nephi continues his disobedience by staying back and allowing Laman to go by himself. Then, he begins to feel sorrow when Laman  is not able to get the plates in the first attempt (verse 14). Earlier he believed  he and not Laman, was favoured of the Lord to get the plates so its unclear why he  personally would be sorrowful.

The are all four still going to get the plates--- they walked many many miles here to get them.  Again, all four sons were sent, all four are doing it (just some complaining along the way).   It was never pre-declared that Nephi should be the one to talk to Laben.  Once in the city area, they decide who's job that is, and things rest on Lamen.   This is just deciding division of labor.  

6 minutes ago, GaleG said:

Verse 16 is also puzzling - "Wherefore, let us be faithful in keeping the commandments  of the Lord; therefore let us go down to the land of our fathers inheritance, for  behold he left gold and silver, and all manner of riches. And all this he hath done  because of the commandments of the Lord."

So try #1 fails.  Lamen and Lemual want to give up and go back to Lehi.  Nephi says "we were assigned to do this, let's do it.  Since just asking didn't work, let's try buying them".  

6 minutes ago, GaleG said:

Assuming Lehi was commanded by the Lord to leave all the family riches back home, why did Nephi disobey God's command to his father into now retrieving these riches  in an attempt to get the plates since God never commanded this?

Lehi was commanded not to bring the riches into the wilderness with them.  And he didn't.  And Nephi isn't going to bring them into the wilderness either.  Rather he's proposing to use them to buy the plates.  Heck, I could see being in his shoes and thinking (as a limited view mortal) "God told us to leave the money here, and this is why-- so we can buy the plates!  Oh what great foresight of God!".  

Obviously try #2 doesn't work either, but it was a decent idea.  

6 minutes ago, GaleG said:

In verses 28 and 29, why did the angel rebuke Laman and Lemuel for hitting Nephiwith a rod but left out any rebuke for beating their youngest brother Sam?
 
Thank you,
 
Gale

Sam's actually Lehi's 3rd son, and Nephi's older brother (he's the fourth son)   https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/sam?lang=eng  Your question is not specifically answered in scripture, though it's entirely possible "smite your younger brother" does indeed apply to Sam as well, cause he is younger and they are smiting him.  The angel could also have including something specific for Sam, and it's just not included in our abridged records.  We do know that Sam was righteous, and followed Nepho.

 Personally, in my minds eye, I see Nephi being to focus of the beating-- after all he's the upstart little brother.  Sam, also gets beat, but not nearly as bad, as he's not the one leading the "we should do better" charge.     

6 minutes ago, GaleG said:

Thank you,
 
Gale

Happy to help!

[Fether]

@GaleG

Jane_Doe’s answers are sufficient. I back what she said.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Fether

[zil]

1 hour ago, GaleG said:

Assuming Lehi was commanded by the Lord to leave all the family riches back home,

I see nothing in the account that says Lehi was commanded to leave the riches behind.  It says he did that, not that he was commanded to do that (1 Nephi 2).  Later (chapter 3) it recounts the fact that the inheritance was left behind, and in the next sentence says: "And all this he hath done because of the commandments of the Lord."  Now one could interpret this as "the Lord commanded the riches be left behind", but I think that's assuming facts not in evidence.  All we know for sure is that Lehi was commanded to take his family and flee, and that as part of that (in other words, because of the command to take his family and flee), he decided to leave the heavy metals behind.

So, maybe the Lord commanded it, or maybe Lehi just decided food was going to be more useful than the money, since they were headed into the wilderness, not off to the big city.  Personally, I think it was Lehi's decision, not an explicit command of the Lord.  I'm willing to be wrong, if someone has more explicit verses on this topic.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, zil said:

All we know for sure is that Lehi was commanded to take his family and flee, and that as part of that (in other words, because of the command to take his family and flee), he decided to leave the heavy metals behind.

[Fether]

.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Fether

[Fether]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

On 11/4/2018 at 1:51 PM, zil said:

All we know for sure is that Lehi was commanded to take his family and flee, ...he decided to leave the heavy metals behind.



 

RUN TO THE HILLS! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

Edited November 6, 2018 by Fether

[GaleG]

On 11/4/2018 at 3:30 PM, Jane_Doe said:

Back in Old Testament times, a person who was a of Abraham's decent/covenant was known as a Jew.  People not of this decent/covenant were known as Gentiles.  In New Testament times, the Gospel is to be preached to all people, regardless of ancestry, so the term has gotten away from the decent part and focused more on the covenant part-- in other words those whom have embraced the Gospel, and those that haven't.

Longer explanation: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/gentile?lang=eng

Thank you Jane.

I looked at link but it didn't mention who the Gentile in the introduction page is.

Gale

[Guest]

1 minute ago, GaleG said:

Thank you Jane.

I looked at link but it didn't mention who the Gentile in the introduction page is.

Gale

Joseph Smith.

[GaleG]

On 11/4/2018 at 4:51 PM, zil said:

I see nothing in the account that says Lehi was commanded to leave the riches behind.  So, maybe the Lord commanded it, or maybe Lehi just decided food was going to be more useful than the money, since they were headed into the wilderness, not off to the big city.  Personally, I think it was Lehi's decision, not an explicit command of the Lord.  I'm willing to be wrong, if someone has more explicit verses on this topic.

I was referring to this verse - "therefore let us go down to the land of our father’s inheritance, for
behold he left gold and silver, and all manner of riches. And all this he hath done because of the
commandments of the Lord".

Gale

[zil]

1 minute ago, GaleG said:

I was referring to this verse - "therefore let us go down to the land of our father’s inheritance, for
behold he left gold and silver, and all manner of riches. And all this he hath done because of the
commandments of the Lord".

Gale

So was I.

[zil]

Or, by example:

Possibility #1:

God: "Lehi, take your family and flee into the wilderness for the wicked seek to take your life."

Lehi: "On my way!"

...and then Lehi decides what to take and what to leave behind.

Possibility #2:

God: "Lehi, take your family and flee into the wilderness for the wicked seek to take your life.  Oh, and leave your riches behind."

Lehi: "Got it!"

...and then Lehi decides everything else about what to take and what to leave behind, but leaves the riches explicitly because he was told.

In both cases, what he does is "because of the commandments of the Lord", but only in one of these possibilities does the Lord explicitly tell Lehi to leave the riches behind.  And we don't know which of these possibilities happened, except that in the original account in the previous chapter all that's mentioned is the command to leave.

And either way, there's nothing explicitly forbidding use of the riches that were left behind.

[Guest]

On 11/4/2018 at 1:48 PM, GaleG said:

 Lehi tells Nephi the Lord commanded him that Nephi and his brothers would go to  
Laban's house and get the plates (1 Nephi 3:3-4).

Remember this bolded portion.

Quote

Lehi tells Nephi he is the chosen one to get the plates

Where does he say that? 

Quote

because he was favoured by God for not murmuring like
his brothers (verse 6). 

I read Lehi telling him to go.  I read he is going to be favored for not murmuring. Where does Lehi say that Nephi alone is the one to get the plates?  I actually see the verse you skipped over which specifically says otherwise.

Quote

 And now, behold thy brothers murmur, saying it is a hard thing which I have required of them; but behold I have not required it of them, but it is a commandment of the Lord.

  -- 1 Ne 3:5

He required it of Nephi's bothers just as much as of Nephi.

Quote

What happened in the mind of Nephi in so short a time that he already begins to
doubt or disbelieve the Lord?  Going contrary to what he said and believed earlier,  
why does he then disobey the Lord's command and consult with his brothers and cast  
lots to see who would actually go into Laban's house to retrieve the plates (verses  
10-11)?  After the lot fell to Laman, Nephi continues his disobedience by staying
back and allowing Laman to go by himself. Then, he begins to feel sorrow when Laman  
is not able to get the plates in the first attempt (verse 14). Earlier he believed  
he and not Laman, was favoured of the Lord to get the plates so its unclear why he  
personally would be sorrowful.

I have no idea how you came to this interpretation of these events.  So, I'm afraid I can't address it. 

Nothing in here is showing doubt or disobedience.  The Lord gave them a task to do.  He did not say how to do it.  So, they do like anyone would do in such a situation: They do the best they can to figure out how to do the task that was given to them.

If you followed some path of logic to come to such a conclusion, please expound a bit because I'm just not getting it from the passage.

Quote

Verse 16 is also puzzling - "Wherefore, let us be faithful in keeping the commandments  
of the Lord; therefore let us go down to the land of our fathers inheritance, for  
behold he left gold and silver, and all manner of riches. And all this he hath done  
because of the commandments of the Lord."

First of all, this is not saying that "leaving their riches at home" was necessarily a commandment of the Lord.  It was a RESULT of obeying God's commandments.  If I was told to leave immediately, I might run out of gas on the road away from town.  Did the Lord command me to run out of gas?  No, but it happened because I was obeying the Lord.

Quote

Assuming Lehi was commanded by the Lord to leave all the family riches back home,
why did Nephi disobey God's command to his father into now retrieving these riches  
in an attempt to get the plates since God never commanded this?

Well, if we're going to assume...

Yes, that is what you do when you're given a task by God.  You use whatever means are available to complete the task.  Is this a surprise for you? 

Even if we assume he was told to leave it behind, don't you think that a resourceful, yet faithful man such as Nephi might be inspired to think,"Oh!  So, that's why the Lord had us leave it all behind.  He wanted us to use it to buy the plates from Laban.  He had this in mind all along."  Wouldn't that seem awfully convenient for you?

It wasn't like he was doing something for his own monetary gain.  He was using it as a tool in an attempt to complete the task the Lord had given him.

Quote

Verse 24 shows that Nephi is back on track; now obedient in that all the brothers  
go into Laban's house this time (the second attempt).
 
In verses 28 and 29, why did the angel rebuke Laman and Lemuel for hitting Nephi
with a rod but left out any rebuke for beating their youngest brother Sam?

1. How do you know he didn't?  Not everything that happened is necessarily written down.  Where on earth did they eat and drink?  Where did they go to the bathroom?  If they left their wealth, what else did they leave behind?  Why wasn't that written down? 

2. Was the angel REQUIRED to rebuke them for hitting Sam as well?  By what standard?  Under whose direction?

3. We have no idea of the details of this beat-down.  It could have been that Sam was just "shoved aside".  And Nephi didn't want to diminish Sam's persecution, so he said he got beat as well (shoving someone is beating them after a fashion).  Then they just started to wallop on Nephi because he was the embodiment of their anger.  Then, only after Nephi was beginning to get severely injured did the angel show up.  That was how I saw it when I first read it many years ago.

If we ASSUME that I'm right in this interpretation, the severity of Sam's "beating" was just another day with Laman and Lemuel.  But Nephi was in danger of losing his life.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Guest

[theplains]

On 11/6/2018 at 6:57 PM, Carborendum said:

Joseph Smith.

I saw this from https://www.lds.org/ensign/1991/01/of-the-house-of-israel?lang=eng

Joseph Smith was referred to as a pure Ephraimite.  This is clarified by "Thus, Joseph Smith was of the house of Israel so
far as his family or blood lines were concerned, but he came from a Gentile nation and thus might also be considered a
Gentile in the political or geographical sense."

It would seem that many who claim literal descent from the lineage of Jacob could also refer to themselves as Gentiles.

Thanks,
Jim

[Guest]

21 hours ago, theplains said:

I saw this from https://www.lds.org/ensign/1991/01/of-the-house-of-israel?lang=eng

Joseph Smith was referred to as a pure Ephraimite.  This is clarified by "Thus, Joseph Smith was of the house of Israel so
far as his family or blood lines were concerned, but he came from a Gentile nation and thus might also be considered a
Gentile in the political or geographical sense."

It would seem that many who claim literal descent from the lineage of Jacob could also refer to themselves as Gentiles.

Thanks,
Jim

Very good, Jim.  I'm pleased you're coming along now.

Have you heard about when a large party of Jews (who had been chased out of every community they were in) arrived in the Salt Lake Valley? (back when the State of Utah was known as the "Territory of Deseret").

The Jews were so relieved to have found a place where they would be left in peace, then to actually make friends in a place they could call home.  But then they discovered something odd.  We Latter-day Saints referred to the Jews as "Gentiles".  Isn't that odd?  So, SLC became known as "the only place in the world where Jews were considered Gentiles."  Funny, huh?

Why do you think we did that, Jim?

Edited November 8, 2018 by Guest

[GaleG]

On 11/6/2018 at 9:06 PM, Carborendum said:

1. How do you know he didn't?  Not everything that happened is necessarily written down.  Where on earth did they eat and drink?  Where did they go to the bathroom?  If they left their wealth, what else did they leave behind?  Why wasn't that written down? 

2. Was the angel REQUIRED to rebuke them for hitting Sam as well?  By what standard?  Under whose direction?

3. We have no idea of the details of this beat-down.  It could have been that Sam was just "shoved aside".  And Nephi didn't want to diminish Sam's persecution, so he said he got beat as well (shoving someone is beating them after a fashion).  Then they just started to wallop on Nephi because he was the embodiment of their anger.  Then, only after Nephi was beginning to get severely injured did the angel show up.  That was how I saw it when I first read it many years ago.

If we ASSUME that I'm right in this interpretation, the severity of Sam's "beating" was just another day with Laman and Lemuel.  But Nephi was in danger of losing his life.

Thank you Carborendum.

1] I see what you mean.  2] Don't know. I just saw that there was no rebuke at all.  3] Makes sense. Seems
Nephi was more in danger of losing his life than Sam.

Gale

[GaleG]

On 11/7/2018 at 9:10 PM, Carborendum said:

We Latter-day Saints referred to the Jews as "Gentiles".  Isn't that odd?  So, SLC became known as "the only place in the world where Jews were considered Gentiles." 

I haven't read much of the Book of Mormon yet. Are all the Israelite tribes referred to as Gentiles there
too?  Is Salt Lake City the only place or are there other places in the United States where Jews are
considered Gentiles too?

Thank you,

Gale

[Jane_Doe]

34 minutes ago, GaleG said:

I haven't read much of the Book of Mormon yet. Are all the Israelite tribes referred to as Gentiles there
too?  Is Salt Lake City the only place or are there other places in the United States where Jews are
considered Gentiles too?

Thank you,

Gale

There's two definitions of the words "Jews" and Gentiles"

1) The genetic definition.  Pretty straight forward.

2) (At least in LDS circles) Jew= Someone who believes in Christ and is part of that covenant, and Gentile = someone who doesn't believe.

@Carborendum reference to Salt Lake City was a joke, referring to a person who is genetically a Jew but doesn't believe in Christ (hence a Gentile in the second definition).  

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

There's two definitions of the words "Jews" and Gentiles"

1) The genetic definition.  Pretty straight forward.

2) (At least in LDS circles) Jew= Someone who believes in Christ and is part of that covenant, and Gentile = someone who doesn't believe.

@Carborendum reference to Salt Lake City was a joke, referring to a person who is genetically a Jew but doesn't believe in Christ (hence a Gentile in the second definition).  

I'm waiting for theplains to respond.  But while we're waiting:

https://www.jta.org/1928/02/21/archive/in-utah-mormons-call-themselves-jews-and-jews-are-considered-gentiles

(Keep in mind that the link above is an article from  1928).

Edited November 11, 2018 by Guest

[theplains]

On 11/7/2018 at 9:10 PM, Carborendum said:

We Latter-day Saints referred to the Jews as "Gentiles".  Isn't that odd?  So, SLC became known as "the only place in the world where Jews were considered Gentiles."  Funny, huh?

Why do you think we did that, Jim?

Personally I don't see anything humorous about that. 

Is there a reason why Joseph Smith and the Latter-day Saints, while they lived in Missouri and other states before travelling west,
did not consider Jews as Gentiles?

Thanks,
Jim

[Guest]

1 hour ago, theplains said:

Personally I don't see anything humorous about that. 

That's just because you obviously have no sense of humor.

Quote

Is there a reason why Joseph Smith and the Latter-day Saints, while they lived in Missouri and other states before travelling west,
did not consider Jews as Gentiles?

Thanks,
Jim

I had asked: Why do you think we did that? 

If you're able to answer that question, I believe the answer to your question will become quite obvious.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Guest

[Anddenex]

Welcome @GaleG to the forum. I will probably echo what others have shared, and maybe share something in a different light; although, I think the answers are sufficient.

On 11/4/2018 at 12:48 PM, GaleG said:

I received my Book of Mormon and started reading it.  For a good summary has anyone reviewed Larry Anderson's "2 Hour Book of Mormon"?

Excellent! I have never reviewed Larry Anderson's shortened work. As a personal choice, I don't read member abridgements of the Book of Mormon. I would recommend reading the "Book of Mormon Stories" -- child's addition -- that is published by the Church if you want a condensed version to understand the story that is happening.  If you think this will help you understand, then by all means read it, if you haven't already.

On 11/4/2018 at 12:48 PM, GaleG said:

The Introduction page mentions the plates sealed by the hand of Moroni and hid up unto the Lord, to come forth in due time by way of the Gentile". Who is this Gentile?  

The word "this" makes me think you are referring to "the Gentile" as a specific individual. The link @Jane_Doe provided you, does answer this question. The link provides you with definitions of what "the" or "a" Gentile is. In this case, "the Gentile," could also mean Joseph Smith (as mentioned by @Carborendum ) as it was his hands that unearthed the Golden Plates and then translated the record, by which it came forth to the Gentile.

On 11/4/2018 at 12:48 PM, GaleG said:

Other questions comes from reading the attempt to get some plates from Laban. Lehi tells Nephi the Lord commanded him that Nephi and his brothers would go to Laban's house and get the plates (1 Nephi 3:3-4). Lehi tells Nephi he is the chosen one to get the plates because he was favoured by God for not murmuring like his brothers (verse 6).  Nephi confirms he is willing to obey the Lord as commanded (verse 7).
 
What happened in the mind of Nephi in so short a time that he already begins to doubt or disbelieve the Lord?  Going contrary to what he said and believed earlier,  why does he then disobey the Lord's command and consult with his brothers and cast lots to see who would actually go into Laban's house to retrieve the plates (verses 10-11)?  After the lot fell to Laman, Nephi continues his disobedience by staying back and allowing Laman to go by himself. Then, he begins to feel sorrow when Laman is not able to get the plates in the first attempt (verse 14). Earlier he believed he and not Laman, was favoured of the Lord to get the plates so its unclear why he personally would be sorrowful.

Let's first begin with the misconceptions within these two paragraphs regarding Nephi:

1) Lehi never told Nephi he was "the chosen one" in these verses. Lehi said Nephi was favored because he did not murmur like his brothers had done. All of the sons of Lehi, at this time (Laman, Lemuel, Sam, and Nephi), were "chosen" to retrieve the plates from Laban.

2) Nephi never doubted the will of the Lord after his heart was softened in previous chapters. Remember Nephi began to teach Sam what he had been taught by the Lord, and Sam believed him. Nephi never doubted what he was commanded to do. As to scripture, it appears Nephi was the only one that did not murmur, for even Lehi murmured at one point.

3) Nephi did not go contrary to what he said earlier, nor did he disobey. He did not continue in any form of disobedience to the Lord.

4) Earlier, it was Lehi that told Nephi he would be favored of the Lord because he did not murmur. There is no mention of Nephi believing he was favored and Laman was not favored. Nephi knew, all people who keep the commandments prosper, or are favored if they do not murmur.

In scripture, the casting of lots was one way for people to know the will of the Lord. Remember the story of Jonah and the whale and the ship mates casting lots and the lot fell upon Jonah as the cause of the storm. I find the casting of lots here remarkable, especially since the lot fell upon the oldest, Laman, who held the birthright. By birth Laman was to rule, and the Lord provided him an opportunity to fill that role. Laman failed. He murmured and was ready to go home. It was Nephi who continued to press his brothers to be faithful to the Lord in receiving the plates. That is not disobedience. That is faith and faithfulness -- obedience.

Who wouldn't feel sorrow -- sorrow is not murmuring -- when we are hoping to achieve something and it doesn't happen? How we react to that sorrow, either like Laman who wanted to return without the plates, or Nephi who thought of some other way.

On 11/4/2018 at 12:48 PM, GaleG said:

Verse 16 is also puzzling - "Wherefore, let us be faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord; therefore let us go down to the land of our fathers inheritance, for behold he left gold and silver, and all manner of riches. And all this he hath done because of the commandments of the Lord."
 
Assuming Lehi was commanded by the Lord to leave all the family riches back home, why did Nephi disobey God's command to his father into now retrieving these riches in an attempt to get the plates since God never commanded this?

I believe @Carborendum, @zil, and @Jane_Doe already provided good thoughts. A command to leave them, or not, doesn't mean a person can't use them when they return on a command from the Lord.

On 11/4/2018 at 12:48 PM, GaleG said:

Verse 24 shows that Nephi is back on track; now obedient in that all the brothers go into Laban's house this time (the second attempt). In verses 28 and 29, why did the angel rebuke Laman and Lemuel for hitting Nephi with a rod but left out any rebuke for beating their youngest brother Sam?

Nephi never left the track, he was strait and narrow the whole way, from the time they left Jerusalem (when the Lord visited him and softened his heart). As pertaining to Sam, no clue. I would assume they were pounding Nephi a little more than Sam, or simply they had their turn on Sam and turned were beating Nephi when the angel appeared; although, it really is not important to the story. The importance is that an angel spared them both.

And then referring to the "casting of lots" and who the lot fell upon -- Laman -- we have the angel saying this, "Know ye not that the Lord hath chosen him to be a ruler over you, and this because of your iniquities?" Laman is informed by an angel of the Lord that he has lost his birthright to rule (which meant Lemuel also), and Sam doesn't appear to have the same strength (at this time) as Nephi. If not for Nephi they would have never made it to the promised land -- on at least two occasions.

[GaleG]

On 11/13/2018 at 4:09 PM, Anddenex said:

Excellent! I have never reviewed Larry Anderson's shortened work. As a personal choice, I don't read member abridgements of the Book of Mormon. I would recommend reading the "Book of Mormon Stories" -- child's addition -- that is published by the Church if you want a condensed version to understand the story that is happening.  If you think this will help you understand, then by all means read it, if you haven't already.

Thank you. I'll check it out.

Gale

[theplains]

On 11/12/2018 at 1:09 PM, Carborendum said:

I had asked: Why do you think we did that? 

If you're able to answer that question, I believe the answer to your question will become quite obvious.

I do not know why it was in Salt Lake City that Jews were also considered as Gentiles but not in Missouri.

Thanks,
Jim

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, theplains said:

I do not know why it was in Salt Lake City that Jews were also considered as Gentiles but not in Missouri.

Thanks,
Jim

Still ducking the question.