Self-defense poll for US Saints


NeuroTypical
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Self defense poll for US Saints only  

39 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you, or someone close to you, have a current conceal-carry permit?

    • Yes
      27
    • No
      8
    • I live outside the US, but I must say you people scare me.
      4
  2. 2. For those of you who carry, how often do you carry?

    • Rarely or never
      9
    • Occasionally
      9
    • Regularly/often
      14
    • I'm not in the US, but no really, you people are scaring me. Why is this poll even here?
      7
  3. 3. Have you ever carried in church?

    • Yes
      12
    • No
      20
    • (Person from outside the US unable to answer, having passed out from fear of their crazy US brethren)
      7


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11 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

I don't know much about these things, but I believe that the process for getting a handgun is much more difficult than getting a rifle or shot-gun and there are fairly strict limitations on the kind of gun you can buy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia

It's not.  If it's for sport (which most of our firearms are - either sport or hunting or museum pieces).

That's actually how I found out about it.  My son is 15 years old and into precision pistol shooting competition.  He knows of this Australian kid who is only 13 doing it. 

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14 hours ago, Backroads said:

I recently have reason to suspect I'm a minority in not carrying at the elementary school I teach at.

Something almost nobody knew until recently - conceal carry has been legal in Utah schools for, like, two decades now.  Kind of takes the steam out of the whole "we can't allow guns in schools - the teachers will accidentally shoot someone" argument, doesn't it.  

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Here's something else I think we'll see more often, before we see less:  
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/kentucky/articles/2018-11-13/church-visited-by-accused-shooter-allows-armed-parishioners

Quote

The First Baptist Church of Jeffersontown has asked church members with law enforcement or security backgrounds to carry guns to services and Bible studies. So far, seven parishioners have been identified to take on this responsibility.

 

I know in my neck of the woods, we have a special kind of "no guns allowed" signs.  They look like this:
OpenCarrySign.JPG.6e94ca0baacd02e381c56a9340164698.JPG

Do you think guns are banned in this building?  Read carefully.  "No open carry".  That means legal concealed-carry is fine.  The local mega-church in my neighborhood has this policy, as do most of the government buildings.  I'm guessing the people making these signs are doing lots and lots of business.

Basically, people who are comforted by a sign, get to feel safe (or at least as safe as a sign will allow).   People with permits get to be safe (or at least as safe as carrying a gun will allow).    If there's some nationwide uptick in church shootings, I can see our church going in a direction like this.  Especially with how many of y'all are indicating you've carried in church before.  I'm still surprised by those results.  

 

 

Edited by NeuroTypical
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14 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Basically, people who are comforted by a sign, get to feel safe (or at least as safe as a sign will allow).   People with permits get to be safe (or at least as safe as carrying a gun will allow).    If there's some nationwide uptick in church shootings, I can see our church going in a direction like this.  Especially with how many of y'all are indicating you've carried in church before.  I'm still surprised by those results. 

During our ward conference, the Stake Pres. 1st Counselor asked about how we felt about recent shootings at places of worship.  His question was: Are any of you concerned or have fears because of this?  No one responded.

I have a hunch now that I'm not the only one who carries.

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8 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Something almost nobody knew until recently - conceal carry has been legal in Utah schools for, like, two decades now.  Kind of takes the steam out of the whole "we can't allow guns in schools - the teachers will accidentally shoot someone" argument, doesn't it.  

It's true. A few years ago we were sitting in faculty meeting talking about defense plans and the VP was giving particular advice to anyone who might be carrying because he couldn't actually demand to know, and a couple of teachers sitting near me practically had conniptions when they realized teachers might be carrying and it was perfectly legal.

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9 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Something almost nobody knew until recently - conceal carry has been legal in Utah schools for, like, two decades now.  Kind of takes the steam out of the whole "we can't allow guns in schools - the teachers will accidentally shoot someone" argument, doesn't it.  

 

58 minutes ago, Backroads said:

It's true. A few years ago we were sitting in faculty meeting talking about defense plans and the VP was giving particular advice to anyone who might be carrying because he couldn't actually demand to know, and a couple of teachers sitting near me practically had conniptions when they realized teachers might be carrying and it was perfectly legal.

It used to be legal in Florida.  My FIL who is retired Navy conceal-carried - he taught in a public high school in the "ghetto neighborhood".   But then Florida passed a law to make it illegal to carry within public school grounds. 

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In my state no permit is needed for concealed carry. My son caries everywhere including movie theaters, restaurants and church. 

My nephew is in the bishopric of our ward and always carries his gun at church. I also know other members of our stake both men and women who carry concealed guns at church. 

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Colorado (or at least my county) considered permitless carry, but decided against it.  Reason being that reciprocity is important - that El Paso County card is just too dang useful as you drive around Colorado, and travel to other states.

Open carry is legal here, although the advisability of such stuff is certainly open to question.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Colorado (or at least my county) considered permitless carry, but decided against it.  Reason being that reciprocity is important - that El Paso County card is just too dang useful as you drive around Colorado, and travel to other states.

Open carry is legal here, although the advisability of such stuff is certainly open to question.

The biggest legal/practical reason to NOT allow open carry in a non constitutional carry state is: You go ahead and open carry.  Then you put a jacket on because it's cold outside.  And now you're a felon.

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32 minutes ago, carlimac said:

Can i ask a really dumb question? How and where do you conceal on your body? I can't figure any way to dress aside from wearing a moo moo that would allow me to conceal anything. How do you keep it from accidentally being seen? 

Harder, IMO, with a skirt / dress.  I found that people either choose not to notice, assume the outline under a shirt / jacket is something else (or that it might be impolite to ask), or are just oblivious. :)  In my regular daily clothing, I use one of these for one gun (paddle inside the pants, rest outside):

DG_SAF_568-0040.jpg?sw=600&sh=600&sm=fit

...and one of these for the other (sits inside the waist of your pants):

89152.png

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7 minutes ago, zil said:

Harder, IMO, with a skirt / dress.  I found that people either choose not to notice, assume the outline under a shirt / jacket is something else (or that it might be impolite to ask), or are just oblivious. :)  In my regular daily clothing, I use one of these for one gun (paddle inside the pants, rest outside):

DG_SAF_568-0040.jpg?sw=600&sh=600&sm=fit

...and one of these for the other (sits inside the waist of your pants):

89152.png

Inside the waist of your pants? Isn't that uncomfortable?

 

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1 minute ago, carlimac said:

Inside the waist of your pants? Isn't that uncomfortable?

No.  You might think it would be, but it's not - not if the gun is the right size for you - that's the thing, if you're tiny and trying to conceal a .357 magnum with a really long barrel, then (a) you won't succeed, and (b) it'll be uncomfortable trying - the cylinder and grip and hammer will be digging into your ribs, the barrel will be poking at weird angles when you sit, etc.  But if the gun is your size, then you won't even notice it - once you're used to it being there.

NOTE: Unless you have to use a lubricant to squeeze into your pants, in which case, you're already so uncomfortable that I'm not sure the gun will make a difference, except that there's no room left for it...

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6 hours ago, zil said:

Harder, IMO, with a skirt / dress.  I found that people either choose not to notice, assume the outline under a shirt / jacket is something else

This ^^.

My first time ever seeing someone who was carrying concealed was a friend who had it on his belt with his polo shirt pulled over it.  

He asked me if I'd noticed because he and his wife were debating whether I'd notice and if I'd be afraid or what.  I told him that I noticed some sort of bulge, but I didn't jump to "gun". People see what they want to see or expect to see.  And I certainly wasn't expecting a gun.  So, I figured it was a multi-tool or whatnot.

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13 hours ago, zil said:

Harder, IMO, with a skirt / dress.  I found that people either choose not to notice, assume the outline under a shirt / jacket is something else (or that it might be impolite to ask), or are just oblivious. :)  In my regular daily clothing, I use one of these for one gun (paddle inside the pants, rest outside):

DG_SAF_568-0040.jpg?sw=600&sh=600&sm=fit

...and one of these for the other (sits inside the waist of your pants):

89152.png

My husband has this.  He can wear this with anything, even his gym shorts.

91UhxF9JpLL._SX466_.jpg

Edited by anatess2
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22 hours ago, zil said:

 I found that people either choose not to notice, assume the outline under a shirt / jacket is something else (or that it might be impolite to ask), or are just oblivious. :)  In my regular daily clothing, I use one of these for one gun (paddle inside the pants, rest outside):

This has generally been my experience.  Most people assume it is a cell phone.  I wear untucked t-shirts all the time.  Depending on the time of year I may have another open button shirt over or my coat.

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8 hours ago, zil said:

Meanwhile, Miss Low-waist-jeans-and-white-t-shirt ain't concealing nothin' under that tight, white T. :rolleyes:

The Constitution was an inspired document.

The Church's modesty code was not about the law of chastity.  It was about providing a means of concealed carry.  That's also why we wear suits to church.

Edited by Guest
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On 11/13/2018 at 1:19 AM, anatess2 said:

Contrary to popular opinion, you can own firearms in Australia.  And it's not that difficult to do either.

I know I've grown up on a farm. We have rifles and shot guns which I use. Having access to land makes it easier to get a rifle. I have just finished my rifle and hand gun licence course and will soon be applying for the license itself. It's no that we can't have guns it's the restrictions it is difficult to maintain a handgun under the law. There is no concealed carry, No semi-auto rifles or pumpactions. High costs for licensing and many other laws that the government can fine you for if you slip up. If you defend yourself with a gun you are just as likely to be criminalized. 

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I believe it's the moral responsibility of every man who has a family or intends to have one, to be able to protect himself when he's away, and his family when he's in their society. The same goes for women. Remember the persecution of the early restored church, I think it will happen again before the end.

Edited by LePeel
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  • pam unfeatured this topic
  • 2 months later...

Ok, so I am not LDS, and I must preface this by apologizing for posting here when the thread is directed at Saints in the US.  I do not mean to disregard or cause offense.

I chose to weigh in because this is a topic that is of extreme importance to me as an American, as a Jew, and as a Rabbi with a decent sized congregation.

Jews, particularly American ones, have a longstanding aversion to guns. According to a 2005 American Jewish Committee study, Jews have the lowest rate of gun ownership of among all religious groups, with just 13 percent of Jewish households owning firearms (compared to 41 percent for non-Jews) and only 10 percent of Jews personally owning a gun (compared to 26 percent).

This is a point on which I strongly take issue.

I am pro-gun, pro-self defense, pro-concealed carry.  I carry everywhere I go, including the synagogue, and I was a firearms instructor for many years.

So why do I feel this way and step away from the majority of Jewish sentiment in the US?

There is famous Talmudic dictum: "If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him first. This statement from the Talmudic sage rava is derived from a Mishnah passage that permits a homeowner to kill an intruder in self-defense if the trespasser arrives in the night.  Some Jewish gun proponents have argued that since the Torah commands self-preservation, acquiring the means for that preservation is also a religious requirement, with some going so far as to suggest that gun control laws prevent Jews from exercising their religious obligations.

More than this, we know that דוד המלך  (King David) protected his flock, and so, too, shall I.  I will do what is necessary in order to keep my congregants safe.

Just my .02 

Edited by Aish HaTorah
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