The next logical step

[Tyme]

I don’t know what else to call not being able to love and being abstinent.

[Just_A_Guy]

1 minute ago, Tyme said:

I don’t know what else to call not being able to love and being abstinent.

Through the nature of my work, I frequently come into contact with people who are in the unfortunate situation of being sexually attracted to children.

Are we, as a society, putting them in “hell” by telling them they may not love and must remain abstinent?

[JohnsonJones]

1 minute ago, Tyme said:

I don’t know what else to call not being able to love and being abstinent.

When you say Love, I imagine you are talking about Romantic love (as opposed to Charity which is the pure love of Christ, or love such as between friends [comradeship/companionship], or that between family members such as mothers and children or siblings and such.  As such...

Depends on your definition of Love...Romantic Love has only existed for around 300 years in our understanding sooo......

 (or if you include not being able to love and/or not doing the dirty with someone you love)

Anyone married before 1600? 

Catholic Priests?

Arranged marriages?

Most Marriages in India?

Marriages between couples who are over 45 and who will eventually get divorced?

The list could go on and on...humorously so...

Time for a Hagar the Horrible joke???

PS: If you don't know who Hagar the Horrible is...it's a cartoon character who I used to read a few decades ago, haven't seen it in a while so unsure if it is still in print or if people are still aware of it even.

[Tyme]

6 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Through the nature of my work, I frequently come into contact with people who are in the unfortunate situation of being sexually attracted to children.

Are we, as a society, putting them in “hell” by telling them they may not love and must remain abstinent?

That’s more heinous than love between two consenting adults.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Tyme said:

Are you trying to back me in a corner so you can say no I can’t get baptized or go the Temple?

Were you actually showing some reluctance to speak your position because it might prevent you from going to the temple?

22 hours ago, Tyme said:

im willing to accept I may not be able to get baptized due to this stance. I’ll wait it out

So, I guess not.  You don't care about getting baptized or going to the temple.

Just so you don't take offense.

22 hours ago, Tyme said:

Please don’t take offense.

i think anybody who opposes LGBT folk are heartless, not following the spirit and ignorant.

Anybody?

22 hours ago, Tyme said:

Just for clarification: I think the leadership of the church are following the spirit.

So, the leadership are following the spirit.  But the majority of members are not.

19 hours ago, Tyme said:

I consider everyone my friend. You’re my brother and good friend.

I had thought you were trying to be sincere.  But I keep coming back to

22 hours ago, Tyme said:

i think anybody who opposes LGBT folk are heartless, not following the spirit and ignorant.

Hmm.. You think your brother and friend is heartless, not following the spirit, and ignorant.  Got it.

If I only followed what the leaders of the Church actually teach.

5 hours ago, mordorbund said:

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2018/10/truth-and-the-plan?lang=eng

Opposition is part of the plan, and Satan’s most strenuous opposition is directed at whatever is most important to God’s plan. He seeks to destroy God’s work.

His prime methods are:

• to discredit the Savior and His divine authority,
• to erase the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ,
• to discourage repentance,
• to counterfeit revelation,
• and to contradict individual accountability.

He also seeks:

• to confuse gender,
• to distort marriage,
• and to discourage childbearing—especially by parents who will raise children in truth.

So, the leaders of the Church are also heartless, not following the spirit, and ignorant.

But you said:

22 hours ago, Tyme said:

Just for clarification: I think the leadership of the church are following the spirit.

So, they're lying to us just to make us feel better about being wrong? They don't even try to tell us that we're wrong?  They don't correct us?  What is the function of a prophet again?

Or are you back tracking that the prophets are also not feeling the spirit?  Just explain it to me, would you?

And don't worry, I won't be offened that you called me heartless and ignorant.  I mean, if I pointed out that you had a bad attitude, you wouldn't do something like tell me to "let it go", would you?

I really tried being your friend.  But it looks like you're more interested in calling me heartless and ignorant than actually trying to be a brother in Christ.  I had thought you were sincere.  But it appears you are not.

May the Lord help you find the path that you obviously won't find by debating with faithful saints.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Guest

[Just_A_Guy]

42 minutes ago, Tyme said:

That’s more heinous than love between two consenting adults.

So you don’t *really* have a problem, conceptually, with the sort of “hell” you accuse us of creating.  It’s just that we are doing it to The Wrong People. 

In other words, the problem isn’t that we’re asking people to do extraordinarily or irrationally hard things; the problem is that you think this particular hard thing shouldn’t have to be done by this particular subset of people.  

Edited November 15, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[Vort]

50 minutes ago, Tyme said:

I don’t know what else to call not being able to love and being abstinent.

Please explain how the Church prevents anyone at any time from being able to love. I think that's a lie. Please prove me wrong.

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Tyme said:

That’s more heinous than love between two consenting adults.

It's not love.  It's sex.  Where is anyone prevented from loving anyone else?

[Tyme]

20 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You didn't answer the question.  That's a talent of yours.

Do you believe God wishes for homosexuals to be sealed together in same sex-marriages?

If I discount what I feel about gays I’d have to discount what I feel about the church. It’s coming from the same place. The pure love of Christ.

[pam]

20 hours ago, Carborendum said:

 

EDIT:  @pam, I didn't mean to say that Third Hour is "stupid".  I just think that most internet things are stupid.  But I love this forum -- no, no, really I do!!!  😎

Blah blah blah    

[boxer]

2 hours ago, Tyme said:

That’s more heinous than love between two consenting adults.

So just so I understand properly, it's okay for a child with consent of their parent to change their "gender", but not okay with the consent of a parent to have sex with another adult?

[SpiritDragon]

2 hours ago, Tyme said:

It’s because I don’t want him to live the hell that is being gay in the church. Why should I subject my brother to hell on earth?

I didn't say anything about removing your brother's agency. When you speak of subjecting him to the church it sounds as if he doesn't make decisions for himself. 

My point was simply that we are all sinners and the gospel is for sinners, so why let the fact that your brother is currently living in sin stop you from having discussions about the gospel. If he listens to the promptings of the spirit it will allow him to realize the need for repentance and to utilize the atonement of Jesus Christ following the Lord's plan of happiness. I have faith that when the Lord tells us keeping his commandments leads to happiness, He means it. If your brother is not ready for the gospel, then that's his decision to make and no one has been subjected to anything. If you never talk to your brother about the gospel until it changes to conform to your views and it never does, how comfortable are you going to be having a conversation with him in the next life when he is asking you why you never shared the doctrines of salvation with him and now his progress is thwarted. 

I too, am a sinner. But, when I first gained my own testimony and began the repentance process I was a much worse sinner. The gospel has made me a better person and a happier person. Sure, there are times when the process has been painful, but it's worth it. 

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, Tyme said:

If I discount what I feel about gays I’d have to discount what I feel about the church. It’s coming from the same place. The pure love of Christ.

I’m not surprised.  At least since the time of the ancient Sumerians, people have known that it is possible to work oneself up into a state of religious ecstasy through the knowledge that someone else is having sex.  Your experience speaks to something very fundamental about the human psyche; and if we do not recognize and account for it, we are likely to become slaves to it.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ, however, has traditionally demanded that people cultivate the sense of discernment that can distinguish between communion with God versus the psychological effects of vicarious sexual release.  And you are right that people who can’t or won’t acknowledge the difference, are going to have a very rough time in the Church of Jesus Christ.  

Edited November 16, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[Tyme]

18 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’m not surprised.  At least since the time of the ancient Sumerians, people have known that it is possible to work oneself up into a state of religious ecstasy through the knowledge that someone else is having sex.  Your experience speaks to something very fundamental about the human psyche; and if we do not recognize and account for it, we are likely to become slaves to it.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ, however, has traditionally demanded that people cultivate the sense of discernment that can distinguish between communion with God versus the psychological effects of vicarious sexual release.  And you are right that people who can’t or won’t acknowledge the difference, are going to have a very rough time in the Church of Jesus Christ.  

Hahahahahahahahahahahha.... What are you trying to imply?

[Tyme]

Man you guys are a joke. I’m done already. Peace.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Tyme

[lostinwater]

2 hours ago, Tyme said:

If I discount what I feel about gays I’d have to discount what I feel about the church. It’s coming from the same place. The pure love of Christ.

i think this is largely true.  From what i've observed, there are very few people who are gay that can stay emotionally healthy as members.  Exceptions?  Certainly.  A lot?  No, i really don't think so.  And from what i've heard from sources i can't quote here is that there is a bit of a revolving door of people who are used as mascots of healthy gay members (with the best of intentions) - giving people completely unrealistic expectations.  Just my opinion, of course.

And again, i'm not pointing fingers.  Not demanding change.  If the policies stay the same, fine!  If a gay person does well as a member, great!  Go for it.  But to force it - and continue to force it.  i don't think you help the person, members, or please God.  Though honestly, i wonder sometimes if any one of those three people are even on the radars of the most outspoken activists on either side.  Usually, it's all about the evil other that has got to come around to another way of seeing things.  Shame, really, because there's quite a lot of beauty on both sides.

[KScience]

On 11/8/2018 at 3:03 PM, anatess2 said:

If he does, this guy will soon follow in Canadian courts:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3356084/I-ve-gone-child-Husband-father-seven-52-leaves-wife-kids-live-transgender-SIX-YEAR-OLD-girl-named-Stefonknee.html

Going back to the original question....

This is why I don't read the "Daily Fail" (no it's not a typo)... MY EYES!!

I don't understand either the desire to be transgender or that age 

Although there are certainly days I don't want to "adult"  anymore.  Anyone want to adopt me? 

[Guest]

On 11/8/2018 at 8:33 AM, Vort said:

We should take bets: Will he win in the European courts?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/08/europe/dutch-man-legal-age-scli-intl/index.html

If you can get your age legally changed, then you can change your age to 13 years old, Then you can't be considered a pedophile when you have sex with another 13 y.o.

It's insanity.

[Tyme]

11 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’m not surprised.  At least since the time of the ancient Sumerians, people have known that it is possible to work oneself up into a state of religious ecstasy through the knowledge that someone else is having sex.  Your experience speaks to something very fundamental about the human psyche; and if we do not recognize and account for it, we are likely to become slaves to it.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ, however, has traditionally demanded that people cultivate the sense of discernment that can distinguish between communion with God versus the psychological effects of vicarious sexual release.  And you are right that people who can’t or won’t acknowledge the difference, are going to have a very rough time in the Church of Jesus Christ.

I’ll just wait to see what the Bishop says. I can’t take seriously somebody who says that I’m having a vicarious sexual experience. That was funny. Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahaahahahahahhhhhahhhahahahhahaahahhhahahahh

i can’t believe you’re a prosecutor. The way you’re an expert at rationalizing what conflicts with your faith is dangerous.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Tyme

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

If you can get your age legally changed, then you can change your age to 13 years old, Then you can't be considered a pedophile when you have sex with another 13 y.o.

It's insanity.

We're already in the middle of the insanity.  My good friend's kid is transgender.  I couldn't even talk to her about this policy in my own State because.... I'm hateful for not accepting her child as a Man.  I am very relieved I have only 2 years left in the school system.

Meanwhile, this gym teacher is threatened by suspension because he refuses to supervise a transgender with all her under-age female bodyparts taking a shower with the boys.  It used to be that an adult male teacher would go to jail for peeping into the girls' shower.

https://thefederalist.com/2018/11/14/florida-school-district-gags-p-e-teachers-telling-parents-girl-watching-naked-sons/

Edited November 16, 2018 by anatess2

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

We're already in the middle of the insanity.  My good friend's kid is transgender.  I couldn't even talk to her about this policy in my own State because.... I'm hateful for not accepting her child as a Man.  I am very relieved I have only 2 years left in the school system.

https://thefederalist.com/2018/11/14/florida-school-district-gags-p-e-teachers-telling-parents-girl-watching-naked-sons/

The Schools "Talking Points" reveals that they themselves don't believe what they are saying or doing.

Quote

Feeling uncomfortable or uncertain about a transgender student using the same facilities as your child is understandable...

Really?  Why is it understandable?  If "identity" is all that matters -- and not the physical reality, then why are they any different? They aren't any different by your book.  So why would it be uncomfortable?

Why the labels at all.  If there really is no difference, then what are labels?  What does "trans" even mean?  "Biological sex" doesn't mean anything.  I don't need a sex reassignment surgery.  I already have a vagina.  It just doesn't look like other women's vaginas.

I happen to have a vagina that has a very long organ rather than a button. And this long organ has a sack with two spherical organs aside it.  But I identify as a woman so I can't rape a woman.  Lesbians can't rape other women, can they?

I-N-S-A-N-I-T-Y

Edited November 16, 2018 by Guest

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, Tyme said:

I’ll just wait to see what the Bishop says. I can’t take seriously somebody who says that I’m having a vicarious sexual experience. That was funny. Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahaahahahahahhhhhahhhahahahhahaahahhhahahahh

i can’t believe you’re a prosecutor. The way you’re an expert at rationalizing what conflicts with your faith is dangerous.

I seem to have struck a nerve.

C’est la vie, I guess . . . a little self-knowledge can be a painful and frightening thing at first. 

Think it over.

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tyme said:

I’ll just wait to see what the Bishop says. I can’t take seriously somebody who says that I’m having a vicarious sexual experience. That was funny. Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahaahahahahahhhhhahhhahahahhahaahahhhahahahh

i can’t believe you’re a prosecutor. The way you’re an expert at rationalizing what conflicts with your faith is dangerous.

You're the only one here who equates sex with love.  And you claimed the source of your belief in same-sex marriage is love.  These are your own words.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Guest

[estradling75]

4 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I seem to have struck a nerve.

C’est la vie, I guess . . . a little self-knowledge can be a painful and frightening thing at first.

Think it over.

 

Indeed the point of having scriptures and prophets is to have a check on our impulses that might be mistaken for spiritual promptings.

The whole point of this life is to test us to see if we will follow God's commands.  It is not much of a test when we agree with it.  The test is when we disagree.  Those that say I believe in prophets, and scriptures, when they tell me what I want to hear, but ignore and discount them when they say things they do not like are failing this test.  They are instead worshiping an idol.  An Idol they have created in their own image.  Sadly if they do not repent they will find that their Idol has no power to save and will perish with them.

 

[anatess2]

49 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

What does "trans" even mean?  "Biological sex" doesn't mean anything.  I don't need a sex reassignment surgery.  I already have a vagina.  It just doesn't look like other women's vaginas.

I happen to have a vagina that has a very long organ rather than a button. And this long organ has a sack with two spherical organs aside it.  But I identify as a woman so I can't rape a woman.  Lesbians can't rape other women, can they?

I-N-S-A-N-I-T-Y

This is EXACTLY the argument between a TERF feminist and a transgender woman... The argument was over transgender women handily beating everybody in sports.  The feminist is arguing that trans women should be excluded from women sports.  The trans women replies... "why do you hate me?".  The conversation evolved to the trans woman saying she should be allowed to live as a woman to which the feminist replied - what does "living like a woman mean?" and the trans woman replied, "to wear women's clothes, to do what women do." and the feminist threw her hands up in frustration, "we've been trying to smash those ridiculous ideas of what women should be or look like in women's fashion and here you are calling us hateful as you dismantle our life's work".

Isn't it great how they just... eat their own?