mikbone Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 There is evidence that these garments were the first holy relics on Earth. Adam’s garment may have passed from Adam → Enoch → Methuselah → Noah — stolen → Ham → Cush → Nimrod –spoil of battle → Esau –traded for bowl of porridge → Jacob → Joseph.[1] Hugh Nibley presents an excellent argument that Joseph’s coat of many colors was Adam’s garment.[2] The garment was redolent of the Garden of Eden, so it reminded Adam and Eve as well as the original patriarchs of the time that man walked with God.[3] When animals caught scent of the garments they were pacified as well, a quality that Nimrod abused to become a mighty hunter.[4] [1]Genesis 9:21-25, Genesis 25:30-34, Jasher 7:24-30, Jasher 27:4-12, Collected Works of Hugh Nibley, Vol.5, Part.2, Ch.1, pp. 169-171 [2]Alma 46:23-24, Hugh Nibley, Teachings of the Book of Mormon, vol. 3, 51-52 [3]Genesis 3:8, 5:22, 6:9, 27:27 [4]Genesis 10:9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 hours ago, mikbone said: There is evidence that these garments were the first holy relics on Earth. Adam’s garment may have passed from Adam → Enoch → Methuselah → Noah — stolen → Ham → Cush → Nimrod –spoil of battle → Esau –traded for bowl of porridge → Jacob → Joseph.[1] Hugh Nibley presents an excellent argument that Joseph’s coat of many colors was Adam’s garment.[2] The garment was redolent of the Garden of Eden, so it reminded Adam and Eve as well as the original patriarchs of the time that man walked with God.[3] When animals caught scent of the garments they were pacified as well, a quality that Nimrod abused to become a mighty hunter.[4] [1]Genesis 9:21-25, Genesis 25:30-34, Jasher 7:24-30, Jasher 27:4-12, Collected Works of Hugh Nibley, Vol.5, Part.2, Ch.1, pp. 169-171 [2]Alma 46:23-24, Hugh Nibley, Teachings of the Book of Mormon, vol. 3, 51-52 [3]Genesis 3:8, 5:22, 6:9, 27:27 [4]Genesis 10:9 Interesting thought, but highly doubt they were passed down as such. Garments don't last 2000 years or more, but an intriguing thought. Midwest LDS and Daybreak79 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Anddenex said: Interesting thought, but highly doubt they were passed down as such. Garments don't last 2000 years or more, but an intriguing thought. They would if they were made of Celestial material! Was it not God that gave it to them??? Edited November 9, 2018 by Fether Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted November 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 Moses 4:27 does make them exceptional. And much of Nibley’s conclusions were generated by Jewish tradition. But some of Jewish tradition says they were made of snake skin as well, which I don’t like. I have reason to believe that they were made of sheep skin. And interestingly there is no report of Eve’s garment which must have been special as well. I bet Adam burried Eve in her garments. Thats what I would have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Fether said: They would if they were made of Celestial material! Was it not God that gave it to them??? The "Fall", but the garments were "eternal" as they are made of Celestial material??? Where does scripture specify they were made of Celestial material??? Edited November 9, 2018 by Anddenex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Fether said: They would if they were made of Celestial material! Was it not God that gave it to them??? That would destroy the symbolism of "coats of skins". Edited November 9, 2018 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 11 hours ago, mikbone said: Esau –traded for bowl of porridge → Jacob ... a quality that Nimrod abused to become a mighty hunter. In the book of Jasher, Esau stole the garment from Nimrod and ran to Jacob for help avoiding capture / detection. This is how Jacob got the garment and the birthright - saving Esau's life - not for a mess of pottage. I like this expanded version of events - seems more probable than just that Esau was starving. Traveler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, zil said: In the book of Jasher, Esau stole the garment from Nimrod and ran to Jacob for help avoiding capture / detection. This is how Jacob got the garment and the birthright - saving Esau's life - not for a mess of pottage. I like this expanded version of events - seems more probable than just that Esau was starving. Maybe. But then we wouldn't have the fantastic analogy of selling our birthright for a mess of pottage. Also, I'm not seeing how the big burly Esau needed help from the smaller less "manly/hairy" Jacob. But who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted November 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, zil said: In the book of Jasher, Esau stole the garment from Nimrod and ran to Jacob for help avoiding capture / detection. This is how Jacob got the garment and the birthright - saving Esau's life - not for a mess of pottage. I like this expanded version of events - seems more probable than just that Esau was starving. Yes, I actually took the effort to write all the footnotes (including those in the book of Jasher) so that those who make commentary might read the pertinent material. Just_A_Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 33 minutes ago, Carborendum said: Maybe. But then we wouldn't have the fantastic analogy of selling our birthright for a mess of pottage. Also, I'm not seeing how the big burly Esau needed help from the smaller less "manly/hairy" Jacob. But who knows? Read the story - it's fun, if nothing else. The help is not in fighting against Nimrod, but in hiding Esau, the fact that he stole the garment, and hiding the garment itself. I think the lesson is added to - don't go around thieving and getting yourself into dangerous situations where you'll sell your soul just to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Osborn Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 13 hours ago, mikbone said: There is evidence that these garments were the first holy relics on Earth. Adam’s garment may have passed from Adam → Enoch → Methuselah → Noah — stolen → Ham → Cush → Nimrod –spoil of battle → Esau –traded for bowl of porridge → Jacob → Joseph.[1] Hugh Nibley presents an excellent argument that Joseph’s coat of many colors was Adam’s garment.[2] The garment was redolent of the Garden of Eden, so it reminded Adam and Eve as well as the original patriarchs of the time that man walked with God.[3] When animals caught scent of the garments they were pacified as well, a quality that Nimrod abused to become a mighty hunter.[4] [1]Genesis 9:21-25, Genesis 25:30-34, Jasher 7:24-30, Jasher 27:4-12, Collected Works of Hugh Nibley, Vol.5, Part.2, Ch.1, pp. 169-171 [2]Alma 46:23-24, Hugh Nibley, Teachings of the Book of Mormon, vol. 3, 51-52 [3]Genesis 3:8, 5:22, 6:9, 27:27 [4]Genesis 10:9 A lot of conjecture here...a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted November 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Rob Osborn said: A lot of conjecture here...a lot. I dont know. If you read all the material listed (although some of which is Apocryphal) it does make a very interesting narrative.. And the fact that God produced the garments himself is spectacular. They might be somewhat similar to the Stones of the Ten Commandments, or the Urim & Thummin that The Brother of Jared received, or the Liahona. Can you think of other Relics that the Lord made? Alma 46: 24 ... he saw that a part of the remnant of the coat of Joseph was preserved and had not decayed. Edited November 10, 2018 by mikbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Anddenex said: The "Fall", but the garments were "eternal" as they are made of Celestial material??? Where does scripture specify they were made of Celestial material??? Oh ... it doesn’t, you have to be enlightened to know this MrShorty and Anddenex 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 52 minutes ago, mikbone said: Alma 46: 24 ... he saw that a part of the remnant of the coat of Joseph was preserved and had not decayed. This is Jacob (Joseph's father) speaking before he died that a part of the coat of many colors had not decayed, and specifies the "garment of my son." The symbolism of what is being said is important pertaining to Joseph's seed, "And he said—Even as this remnant of garment of my son hath been preserved, so shall a remnant of the seed of my son be preserved by the hand of God, and be taken unto himself, while the remainder of the seed of Joseph shall perish, even as the remnant of his garment." This is more the "conjecture" I would say @Rob Osborn is speaking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Fether said: Oh ... it doesn’t, you have to be enlightened to know this Ah, so that's why I don't know. I'm just not enlightened enough. I'll go work on my radiation therapy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 I don't believe in holy relics. I think that's just old plain superstitious magic by another name. Midwest LDS and Traveler 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Vort said: I don't believe in holy relics. I think that's just old plain superstitious magic by another name. Oh, yeah?!? Well, what do you call the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch? Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 33 minutes ago, Carborendum said: Oh, yeah?!? Well, what do you call the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch? Huh? The debate as to the authenticity of that purported relic has been known to become quite explosive at times . . . Midwest LDS, askandanswer, zil and 2 others 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel Goldstein Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 50 minutes ago, Carborendum said: Oh, yeah?!? Well, what do you call the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch? Huh? Oh, that one got used already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fether Posted November 9, 2018 Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Vort said: I don't believe in holy relics. I think that's just old plain superstitious magic by another name. You will be regretting your disbelief when I have gathered togethered Adam’s garment of invincibility, Mose’s staff of unlimited power, the Liahona if forsight, Nephi’s boat of instant travel (as it only took them on chapter to go from Saudi Arabia to the Americas), and Paul’s Handkerchief Of immunity. I will be the most power being on earth. zil and Midwest LDS 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted November 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) Edited November 9, 2018 by mikbone Midwest LDS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 (edited) I agree with @Vort relics are never themselves holy - it is what they can or should represent that is holy. Thus such things are but substitutions until we connect to, understand and master, "The Real Thing". The Traveler Edited November 10, 2018 by Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askandanswer Posted November 10, 2018 Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 On 11/9/2018 at 12:48 PM, mikbone said: Hugh Nibley presents an excellent argument that Joseph’s coat of many colors was Adam’s garment.[2 Genesis 37:3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours. Vort and Anddenex 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted November 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 So what would be a less offensive term than a holy relic for items that are ‘imbued’ with supernatural properties D&C 17:1 Behold, I say unto you, that you must rely upon my word, which if you do with full purpose of heart, you shall have a view of the plates, and also of the breastplate, the sword of Laban, the Urim and Thummim, which were given to the brother of Jared upon the mount, when he talked with the Lord face to face, and the miraculous directors which were given to Lehi while in the wilderness, on the borders of the Red Sea. Ark of the Covenant Heb 9:4 Brass Plates 1 Ne 5: 18-19 Miraculous Heirlooms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted November 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2018 (edited) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_many_colors The above article has some relevent information as to the original Hebrew meaning of the “coat of many colors” The above picture is from the Wave bible iphone app. It is worth the fee. Allowing you to compare the KJV to the original Hebrew for the Old Testament and Aramaic for the New Testament Edited November 10, 2018 by mikbone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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