LatterDSaint

Can women have a healthy relationship guy bestfriend and their boyfriend at the same time? Based on what happened yesterday, I would conclude NO

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Hi yall. I am here again. Might as well call me a regular I guess since this site is pretty awesome. 

So for context, me and my girlfriend of 6 months broke up at the beginning of this fall as she was contemplating serving a mission and in the end we to part ways and committed to see each other on the other side (post mission). For a month and a few weeks we didnt have any communication like we used to and when we saw each other, we limited it to small talk "hey how are classes etc". Then out of the blue she texted me to talk so we did. During this talk she said that she didnt feel that it was a calling from the Lord to serve a mission and a lot of pressure was placed onto her from her mother. She concluded that she wants to be back in a relationship with me. I accepted as I do love her and so for three weeks now we have been dating and it has been a greatly God centered relationship like it was before, only the spirit appears to be so much more involved (we arent letting things get out of hand). 

During the time of our split she has made many close guy friends, one of which is on her sports team who she described to me when we were broken up as her best friend. At the time we got back together, she mentioned if it was okay that she kept her male friends (all single who flirt with her) around, and I obliged because I believed her when she said that she is choosing me and not them. She never kissed any of them over this period but it was apparent that she developed an emotional attachment between perhaps three different guys, the strongest being the guy that is on her sports team. She disclosed to me on the night we got back together that the guy on her team is an attractive guy (which he is as I met him before I got back together with my girlfriend) and obviously I did not feel as though I had any place to deny her, her friendships, even if I was skeptical that their behavior towards her (flirtatious) was not likely to change. 

So last week me and my girlfriend were hanging out and we were talking about the relationships or friendships we formed with other people while we were split. I repeated what I said to her on the night we got back together that I went on a date with one girl and although I scheduled a second date with her, I texted this girl letting her know that it wasnt fair to her that I was still in love with my ex (now girlfriend). My girlfriend asked if I kept any female friends around to which I explained I didnt because I have no reason to while I am in a relationship with her, which led her to feel guilty that she was keeping her male friends close while she was in a relationship with me, but after long discussion about one of her close male friends who she met while hanging out with her bestfriend who is on her team, I said that I trust her to respect our relationship and even though this particular guy has been on dates with her,  I had faith that she would not do anything to jeopardize our relationship. 

Flashforward to yesterday, my girlfriend thought she had practice for an instrument and her sports bestfriend is also in that class so she understandably asked him for a ride and its clearly been routine since they have met. I did offer to give her a ride my self, but it was on a moped and its cold here in Provo so I understood why she was more eager to get a ride in her sports bestfriends' car. She wasnt sure if he was going to come through as he was contemplating whether to go to the volleyball game or not but with 7 mins before her class started he did, and I took the cue to say a quick goodbye to my girlfriend and we both left with the expectation (we established this earlier on in the day) that we would hang out after her two hour instrument practice. So after an hour and thirty so minutes I get a text that "I made it home. Are you still okay to hang out tonight" to which I replied "of course". I got to her place and we met up and I noticed that she was wearing nice jeans that I didnt see previously and I even commented that they were nice. So we sit down together on a couch and she proceeds to tell me what just happened over the past time I thought she was at guitar practice. SHe and her sports bestfriend found out that guitar practice isnt today and was actually on Wednesday like it usually is, which she has been attending since the beginning of the semester. So they take the liberty to head back to her place and all this time they were actually at my girlfriends place because her sports bestfriend hadnt eaten at all and wanted to eat at her place. She didnt protest. So I wanted her to clarify that in the hour and thirty odd minutes that I thought she was at guitar practice (there was no update text), she was actually at her place the whole time with her sports bestfriend, and she confirmed. I couldnt quite believe what I was hearing so I proceeded to leave then I came back and we had a long discussion about how I felt really betrayed that she didnt bother to let me know her instrument practice was actually on Wednesday, and she was at home the whole time with her bestfriend who she hasnt denied she finds attractive. She was extremely apologetic and confessed that she does have feelings for her bestfriend who is on her team but she values our relationship so will act to cut off her ties with these other guys from here on out. After what happened the other day, I agreed to this and we have made up but she believes that she will have to regain my trust in this relationship. 

Im interested in a discussion on this and will clarify things I didnt put in this post. p.s I love her dearly

Edited by LatterDSaint

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This issue seems to come up here every now and then.  While I'm sorry this happened to you, it is possible to have friends that cross gender lines-even when both people are in committed relationships with others. 

Like I've mentioned before, one of my best friends is a woman, and I'm happily married. I am 100% confident that she isn't :: ahem :: "attracted" to me, given that we view each other as brother and sister. So it's very possible to have good friends who aren't of the same gender. 

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I'm an extremely happily married woman.  And majority of my friends are male (married and single).  My life would be much less without these great supportive individuals in my life.  We have all sorts of fun times.  When my husband and I got married, our bridal party was pretty small because my friends were both groomsmen & bridesmaids, as were my husbands friends.  Adult men and women can be friends.

Now, does being in a relationship make you blind?  Of course not!  People who are attractive are still attractive.  But part of being an adult is having that self control to not do anything about it if you/they are in a relationship, and if there's temptation to walk away.  

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Some folks get a huge kick out of tightrope walking, chainsaw juggling, wingsuit death-defying jumps, etc.  All of my insides would swiftly be outside of me if I tried any of that.  I guess there are people who can manage it, but those people are not me.

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4 hours ago, LatterDSaint said:

So I wanted her to clarify that in the hour and thirty odd minutes that I thought she was at guitar practice (there was no update text), she was actually at her place the whole time with her sports bestfriend, and she confirmed.

Even after reading your post, I still don't get a sense of just how committed this relationship is.  Less committed relationships don't necessarily rule out "emotional relationships" with other people.  At some point they do because they are leading up to engagement and marriage.  So, it formally becomes a courtship.  If it isn't at that level, emotional entanglements with others are ok in my book.   So, ARE you at that level?  Are you both in a "courtship" stage?  Or are you just "hanging out"?

Regardless, here are some words of advice.

1) The question is not whether it is possible.  The question is whether it is possible for you and her.  It is quite possible.  But it takes a lot of preconditions which apparently you do not have.
2) Work on your self-confidence.  This comes from loving others so much that you expect that others love you too.  This does NOT mean that you expect others TO love you or that you REQUIRE others to love you.  It means that you're just so overflowing with Charity for all, that your mindset is open to receive that charity back from others.

 

Edited by Carborendum

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12 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Even after reading your post, I still don't get a sense of just how committed this relationship is.  Less committed relationships don't necessarily rule out "emotional relationships" with other people.  At some point they do because they are leading up to engagement and marriage.  So, it formally becomes a courtship.  If it isn't at that level, emotional entanglements with others are ok in my book.   So, ARE you at that level?  Are you both in a "courtship" stage?  Or are you just "hanging out"?

Regardless, here are some words of advice.

1) The question is not whether it is possible.  The question is whether it is possible for you and her.  It is quite possible.  But it takes a lot of preconditions which apparently you do not have.
2) Work on your self-confidence.  This comes from loving others so much that you expect that others love you too.  This does NOT mean that you expect others TO love you or that you REQUIRE others to love you.  It means that you're just so overflowing with Charity for all, that your mindset is open to receive that charity back from others.

 

Hi Carborendum

I appreciate your response. To clarify yes we are in the "courtship" stage. We spoke about marriage very seriously before we broke up and it is still a conversation that is bought up now. Granted, because of parental concerns, our reality is that we may not be able to be married for at least a few years. But I am willing to go the extra mile for my girlfriend and she appears to want to go the extra mile for me. And after educating myself on multiple forums about how relationships (marriages) often fail, I could see the imminent danger that was associated with what the events of last night. I dont like describing time as the foundation basis of a relationship but for context and clarity, we have been dating for at least seven months altogether

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46 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

I'm an extremely happily married woman.  And majority of my friends are male (married and single).  My life would be much less without these great supportive individuals in my life.  We have all sorts of fun times.  When my husband and I got married, our bridal party was pretty small because my friends were both groomsmen & bridesmaids, as were my husbands friends.  Adult men and women can be friends.

Now, does being in a relationship make you blind?  Of course not!  People who are attractive are still attractive.  But part of being an adult is having that self control to not do anything about it if you/they are in a relationship, and if there's temptation to walk away.  

Hi Jane. 

Thank you for your response. Has there ever been an occasion where your husband felt disrespected because you were spending time with one of your attractive single friends (who is clearly flirtatious) and wanted you to dial it down, a lot? Just curious thats all

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1 minute ago, LatterDSaint said:

Hi Carborendum

I appreciate your response. To clarify yes we are in the "courtship" stage. We spoke about marriage very seriously before we broke up and it is still a conversation that is bought up now. Granted, because of parental concerns, our reality is that we may not be able to be married for at least a few years. But I am willing to go the extra mile for my girlfriend and she appears to want to go the extra mile for me. And after educating myself on multiple forums about how relationships (marriages) often fail, I could see the imminent danger that was associated with what the events of last night. I dont like describing time as the foundation basis of a relationship but for context and clarity, we have been dating for at least seven months altogether

Before I ask my question, I want to say that I don't mean it is right or wrong.  I'm just curious about the logic behind it.

What "parental concerns" are you talking about that would delay a marriage a "few years"?

To give you some of my background:  I met my wife in February.  We went on our first date in March.  We mad our "courtship status" official in April.  We were officially engaged in June.  We were married in November -- all in the same year.  We're coming up on our 22nd anniversary.  And we're still madly twitterpated with each other.

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2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

We mad our "courtship status" official in April.  We were officially engaged in June.  We were married in November -- all in the same year.  We're coming up on our 22nd anniversary.

God bless you and your wife. Very inspiring. I hope you and your wife have fun celebrating your 22nd anniversary :)

3 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

What "parental concerns" are you talking about that would delay a marriage a "few years"?

The parents perhaps on both sides of this relationship would rather not see their children be married at our college age. I completely understand where they are coming from. It would be daunting for parents to expect to provide financial care for their children whilst they are in college and continually fear the possibility of a child coming into the mix 

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3 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

God bless you and your wife. Very inspiring. I hope you and your wife have fun celebrating your 22nd anniversary :)

The parents perhaps on both sides of this relationship would rather not see their children be married at our college age. I completely understand where they are coming from. It would be daunting for parents to expect to provide financial care for their children whilst they are in college and continually fear the possibility of a child coming into the mix 

Be aware of the trade off you're making.  Courtships in this situation to last "a few years" will often result in breaking the law of chastity or breaking up entirely -- or both.

I don't know how old you are.  And I don't know what potential you have for income.  But people do get married when they are very poor and are still able to make financial sacrifices to make it work without government or family assistance.

I can't tell you not to do this because it is your decision.  And to be truthful I can't relate.  I've always been an overachiever and workaholic.  So, I was always able to find work and support myself and my family.  Sometimes required more sacrifice and budget trimming than others.  But we always got by.  As students, we probably made more money than anyone else did (who was not on an allowance from mommie and daddy).  I had three jobs.  My wife had one.  We made it work.

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26 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

Hi Jane. 

Thank you for your response. Has there ever been an occasion where your husband felt disrespected because you were spending time with one of your attractive single friends (who is clearly flirtatious) and wanted you to dial it down, a lot? Just curious thats all

@LatterDSaint, if the friend she was hanging out with was female, would you be having this reaction?  Or if the person was a fat unattractive dude?

 

It is healthy to have friendships besides that of the person you're in a relationship with-- they're all part of your support network.  In fact, it's a major red flag of an unhealthy relationship if A asks B to terminate healthy friendships with others.  My husband knows this and has zero problem with me spending ties with friends- even if that friend happens to be male, single, and attractive.  In fact, my work partner, whom I spend much time alone with, happen falls into that category.  It's not a problem: my husband knows I'm fully committed to him and if something came up I would handle it appropriately.  He is not irrationally jealous at all.  I have seen such irrational jealousy poison many other marriages. 

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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Some folks get a huge kick out of tightrope walking, chainsaw juggling, wingsuit death-defying jumps, etc.  All of my insides would swiftly be outside of me if I tried any of that.  I guess there are people who can manage it, but those people are not me.

Remember that guy who walked across the World Trade Centers on a tight rope? That was me. 

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51 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

if the friend she was hanging out with was female, would you be having this reaction?  Or if the person was a fat unattractive dude?

If the friend was a female, nope I would not feel the the same way at all. Although there was one instance where my girlfriend was with her bestfriend (girl)  and her husband and I was a little upset at how she gave them a lot more attention throughout the day than she gave me when I came back from a long trip.

If it was a fat unattractive dude that she was hanging out with, who I am not completely familiar with, I would advise her to keep her distance as I dont know him very well and his intentions may be nefarious when he is around her. 

57 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

In fact, it's a major red flag of an unhealthy relationship if A asks B to terminate healthy friendships with others.

Really? What if you suspect that an emotional affair exists between one of the "harmless" friendships? Would it be unhealthy to terminate it then?

 

59 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 It's not a problem: my husband knows I'm fully committed to him and if something came up I would handle it appropriately.  He is not irrationally jealous at all.

When you talk about being "fully committed", I assume you mean emotionally too. Do you ever talk about things with your coworker that you would not with your husband?

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1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Be aware of the trade off you're making.  Courtships in this situation to last "a few years" will often result in breaking the law of chastity or breaking up entirely -- or both

Point taken. The law of chastity is certainly something we are keeping in mind whenever we are together and I pray that our relationship will not end in us breaking up, especially over something like what I described above...

 

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

I had three jobs.  My wife had one.  We made it work.

Wow! Would you mind letting me in on how you were able to balance three jobs, focus on schoolwork, and give your wife your attention all at the same time?

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2 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

Really? What if you suspect that an emotional affair exists between one of the "harmless" friendships? Would it be unhealthy to terminate it then?

When you talk about being "fully committed", I assume you mean emotionally too. Do you ever talk about things with your coworker that you would not with your husband?

Let's tone it down a bit.  Jane didn't mean anything overly critical by this. 

There is a difference between a "healthy" relationship with others and a potentially relationship destroying one.  The inability to tell the difference implies a deficit in the eyes of the beholder.

There are times when talking about things (very few things) with others is more appropriate than with a significant other.  As much as I love my wife, every once in a while I have to talk to others whom I trust in how best to approach my wife about some overly sensitive topics.  If they are topics that she is highly sensitive about, and for one reason or other I deem it truly necessary to bring it up, I'll often get advice on how to do it in a diplomatic fashion.

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2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

There is a difference between a "healthy" relationship with others and a potentially relationship destroying one.

Point taken

 

2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

As much as I love my wife, every once in a while I have to talk to others whom I trust in how best to approach my wife about some overly sensitive topics.

But this concerns your wife which makes sense. What about conversations that arent centered around your wife and how to treat her in a certain situation? Do you consider that a thing?

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1 minute ago, LatterDSaint said:

Point taken. The law of chastity is certainly something we are keeping in mind whenever we are together and I pray that our relationship will not end in us breaking up, especially over something like what I described above...

Best of luck to you.  It will be tough.  But with the Lord, all things are possible.

1 minute ago, LatterDSaint said:

Wow! Would you mind letting me in on how you were able to balance three jobs, focus on schoolwork, and give your wife your attention all at the same time?

I had two teaching assistant positions with two different professors.  They took 5 to 10 hours a week.  The other job was with the City of Orem.  I was an engineering intern there.  It varied from 30 to 40 hours per week.  If you do the math, I was at work 40 to 60 hours a week.  That's a lot of time.

My wife and I worked a LOT on coordinating our schedules so that I could be there to pick her up from school and work when needed.  Every once in a while she had to take the bus.  She did not have a license until after we were married for about 6 months.  And we could only afford one car.

That leaves school.  How did I attend class and do homework and study, etc. with the remaining hours?

To put it bluntly and quite arrogantly, I'm a genius.  I pretty much breezed through most of my classes.  I skimmed over the books and got some concepts I hadn't known before.  I looked at example problems.  I understood them.  I did my homework.  I found all the professors' office schedules to be able to visit them with questions that I had.

Even so.  I often stayed up till the wee hours of the night to get studying and homework done.  It was a sacrifice.  But that's what men do.  They sacrifice and work hard for their families.

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@LatterDSaint, you seem like a smart guy who's honestly looking for advice.  So I'm going to be direct here--

Your reaction to the situation with the sportsman is that of jealousy and lack of trust in your girlfriend.  They are not healthy emotions.

2 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

If it was a fat unattractive dude that she was hanging out with, who I am not completely familiar with, I would advise her to keep her distance as I dont know him very well and his intentions may be nefarious when he is around her. 

This ^ reaction also shows a lack of trust in your girlfriend.  You feeling the ned to "approve" who she associates with is not healthy for you or the relationship.

2 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

Really?

Yes, it is EXTREMELY unhealthy if A asks B to terminate healthy friendships with others.  In many cases (though far from all) isolating a significant other from other healthy relationships is a sign of abuse.

2 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

What if you suspect that an emotional affair exists between one of the "harmless" friendships? Would it be unhealthy to terminate it then?

If you suspect something is going on, then you man (or woman) up and ask your significant other about it.  

2 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

When you talk about being "fully committed", I assume you mean emotionally too. Do you ever talk about things with your coworker that you would not with your husband?

Of course i mean emotionally too.  

I talk about many things in detail with my coworker that I don't with my husband-- usually work or things related to work.  It's not that I couldn't talk to my husband (he'll usually hear the summed-up version of things) but my coworker is better at work things.  And we talk football (cause he's into football) and other random subjects too.  It's not that my husband and I couldn't talk football either, but it's just not a mutual interest of ours.  

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

You feeling the ned to "approve" who she associates with is not healthy for you or the relationship.

I see where you are coming from but I am curious. Do you think that "trust" is actually the issue here? Because I do trust that my girlfriend wouldnt do anything to intentionally hurt me but what is she does hurt me unintentionally which she did the other day by not telling me that her instrument practice was cancelled and that she was going to hang out with another guy who she has said herself, she finds attractive? Do you think I am wrong that I can trust my girlfriend to not cheat on me but not trust that she wont in time end up developing feelings for this other person that she might not even realize she is acting on? If you believe that "acting on" feelings is just limited to kissing another person or sleeping with them then you will probably think I am wrong which would make sense. But as I learnt today, acting on your feelings for somebody else is hanging out with this person while your boyfriend at the time is under the impression that you are somewhere else. Telling your boyfriend/spouse after this has just occurred doesnt make me completely feel like she actually respects me. Or am I wrong?

Edited by LatterDSaint

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OP

You need to dump her.  She is playing you.  It is obvious.  Boys and girls can't really be friends.  Those that say they are are the 1 in 1000 exception.  Don't live your life by exception.  Find a girl that is loyal to you only.  There are lots of them out there.  

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9 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

I see where you are coming from but I am curious. Do you think that "trust" is actually the issue here? Because I do trust that my girlfriend wouldnt do anything to intentionally hurt me but what is she does hurt me unintentionally which she did the other day by not telling me that her instrument practice was cancelled and that she was going to hang out with another guy who she has said herself, she finds attractive? Do you think I am wrong that I can trust my girlfriend to not cheat on me but not trust that she wont in time end up developing feelings for this other person that she might not even realize she is acting on? If you believe that "acting on" feelings is just limited to kissing another person or sleeping with them then you will probably think I am wrong which would make sense. But as I learnt today, acting on your feelings for somebody else is hanging out with this person while your boyfriend at the time is under the impression that you are somewhere else. Telling your boyfriend/spouse after this has occurred doesnt make me completely feel like she is actually trustworthy does it?

I think I see the point you are trying to make.  And it "could" be correct.  But it "could" also be misplaced.  Here's the breakdown.

If she is actually doing anything emotionally irresponsible, then she needs to correct that. 

If she is not, then you need to correct your jealousy.

In EITHER case, you need to:

1) Treat her like a daughter of God.  You treat her like the Queen she is going to be in your life.

2) You don't have the right to correct her or make demands.  You have the right to explain to her how her actions make you feel and what your concerns are.  Then you can work TOGETHER on how to address the concerns.  And in so doing, the behavior may change.

Your description thus far has been

1) She did something with another man.  (Details don't matter).
2) You got jealous.
3) You threw a tizzy fit.
4) You made demands.
5) She capitulated.

Does this sound like a healthy relationship? 

If my narrative in these five items is somehow incorrect or incomplete, correct me.

4 minutes ago, mdfxdb said:

You need to dump her.  She is playing you.  It is obvious.  Boys and girls can't really be friends.  Those that say they are are the 1 in 1000 exception.  Don't live your life by exception.  Find a girl that is loyal to you only.  There are lots of them out there.  

Or this ^^.

Edited by Carborendum

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