Mormon vs Trump


Tyme
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1 minute ago, Tyme said:

I’d like to see a Mormon Republican run against Trump in the primary. The only one who stands a chance is Romney. It could get ugly. I think Trump would attack the church.

would you like to see that? Do you think Romney has a chance?

I don’t believe for a second that Trump would attack the church. Trump has never attacked any organization unless they attacked him or are deeply immoral.

I would vote Trump over Romney any day

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4 minutes ago, Tyme said:

I’d like to see a Mormon Republican run against Trump in the primary. The only one who stands a chance is Romney. It could get ugly. I think Trump would attack the church.

would you like to see that? Do you think Romney has a chance?

If Romney actually promised and stuck to conservative ideals, he would have a chance.  But the problem is convincing the public that he means it.

The other problem is the personality thing.  The average American is no longer concerned about who would do the best job or who is more "Presidential" or qualified or whatever.  They want to vote for the guy they'd be most likely to have a beer with.  And, ya know, the whole Latter-day Saint thing puts the kibash on that.  So, for that reason, no one is going to vote Romney into the Oval Office.

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9 minutes ago, Tyme said:

I’d like to see a Mormon Republican run against Trump in the primary. The only one who stands a chance is Romney. It could get ugly. I think Trump would attack the church.

would you like to see that? Do you think Romney has a chance?

Not all Mormons are honest politicians.  Reid, is one of the corrupt ones.  Romney, Flake... their actions the past 3 years has shown their true colors.  Orin Hatch was an establishment guy much like Romney.  The past 3 years has shown him to be an upstanding character even as he opposed Trump.

Trump does not attack churches unless the church attacks him.  I doubt President Nelson would attack Trump.

I am upset that Utah chose Romney for Senate.  Romney has some skeletons in his closet with the intelligence agencies (I suspect it has something to do with McCain and spygate) that he wants buried.  He tried to puppy-dog his way into the State Department.  That failed.  So now he's trying it in the Senate.

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9 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

If Romney actually promised and stuck to conservative ideals, he would have a chance.  But the problem is convincing the public that he means it.

Romney did not run as a conservative for his governorship in Massachusetts.  He tried to repaint himself as a conservative for 2008 and 2012.  It didn't work.  The past 3 years has shown he truly is not one.

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13 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

The other problem is the personality thing.  The average American is no longer concerned about who would do the best job or who is more "Presidential" or qualified or whatever.  They want to vote for the guy they'd be most likely to have a beer with.  And, ya know, the whole Latter-day Saint thing puts the kibash on that.  So, for that reason, no one is going to vote Romney into the Oval Office.

This is not true.

The average American has never been concerned about "Presidential"... the media is.  But then the media defines what Presidential means.

The average politically active American wants to vote for the guy who can get things done.  Elegance in talk is not as important as the results of his actions.  Romney will not gain the support of the Trump base because of that.  Not because of his "talk" or "qualifications" or religious affiliation.  But because of his actions.

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25 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Not all Mormons are honest politicians.  Reid, is one of the corrupt ones.  Romney, Flake... their actions the past 3 years has shown their true colors.  Orin Hatch was an establishment guy much like Romney.  The past 3 years has shown him to be an upstanding character even as he opposed Trump.

Trump does not attack churches unless the church attacks him.  I doubt President Nelson would attack Trump.

I am upset that Utah chose Romney for Senate.  Romney has some skeletons in his closet with the intelligence agencies (I suspect it has something to do with McCain and spygate) that he wants buried.  He tried to puppy-dog his way into the State Department.  That failed.  So now he's trying it in the Senate.

Saying there is an honest politician is an oxymoron. Trump definitely isn’t honest. The question is are the Mormon politicians better than the alternatives. Just the fact that they share our faith I say yes. It would also elevate the church into the spotlight again.

What did Harry Reid do that is so bad besides being a Democrat?

Edited by Tyme
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15 minutes ago, Tyme said:

Saying there is an honest politician is an oxymoron. Trump definitely isn’t honest. The question is are the Mormon politicians better than the alternatives. Just the fact that they share our faith I say yes. It would also elevate the church into the spotlight again.

What did Harry Reid do that is so bad besides being a Democrat?

You think a politician is better BECAUSE he's a Mormon?  Really?  See, this is a problem with members of the church that made MLM businesses a bane in RS.

Reid has a string of corruption from Nevada all the way to the Federal government.  His retirement was forced due to his corruption.  Reid's million-dollar-payoff for land deals that wasn't his property is legendary - unless your only source of information is mainstream media.  He regularly dealt with graft using federal regulations as leverage... e.g. pay-off from Chinese solar energy companies, pay-off from the boxing circuit, etc. etc.

You sure don't want THAT to be the reason the Church gets put in the spotlight.

Edited by anatess2
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I think Romney is getting a *little bit* of a bum rap from some Mormons who have drink the Kool-Aid of Trump’s personality cult.  But I agree that Romney—while fundamentally a good man, in my view—is a bit of a squish; and seems to have been playing both sides against the middle during much of 2016-2017.  I live in Utah and voted for Mike Kennedy in the Senate primary; and I think Utah and the country would be better off if he had won. 

More to the point, Romney simply will not beat Trump in any Republican primary.  Trump has consolidated his hold on the party, and they will follow him to whatever end. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I think Romney is getting a *little bit* of a bum rap from some Mormons who have drink the Kool-Aid of Trump’s personality cult.  

See, when you start statements off like this, it devalues the rest of your statements.  It makes it sound like you completely disregard Romney's 2015/2016 shenanigans as just attacks from a "personality cult".  Romney's actions put the RNC in a crisis.  I know you would rather have Hillary win over Trump.  But minimizing the complaints of the Trump base against Romney to a "personality cult" is too low brow for your high level of political intelligence. 

Cruz, for example, is generally supported by the Trump base in addition to the Cruz base even after the fierce competition in 2016.  And that's because Cruz was able to rise above the political competition to actually support the will of Trump/Cruz voters which didn't vary too much from each other.  But McCain, Romney, Flake, Ryan, et. al. took every opportunity to lambast Trump as President even to the point of SUPPORTING ANTIFA and ILLEGAL immigration!  And, of course, calling the Trump base a "personality cult".  

Edited by anatess2
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25 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

See, when you start statements off like this, it devalues the rest of your statements.  It makes it sound like you completely disregard Romney's 2015/2016 shenanigans as just attacks from a "personality cult".  Romney's actions put the RNC in a crisis.  I know you would rather have Hillary win over Trump.  But minimizing the complaints of the Trump base against Romney to a "personality cult" is too low brow for your high level of political intelligence. 

Cruz, for example, is generally supported by the Trump base in addition to the Cruz base even after the fierce competition in 2016.  And that's because Cruz was able to rise above the political competition to actually support the will of Trump/Cruz voters which didn't vary too much from each other.  But McCain, Romney, Flake, Ryan, et. al. took every opportunity to lambast Trump as President even to the point of SUPPORTING ANTIFA and ILLEGAL immigration!  And, of course, calling the Trump base a "personality cult".  

The interesting thing here is that I fundamentally agreed with you that a) Romney had acted somewhat mercenarily, b) that he is not an ideal Senator, and c)  and that he’d be a bad candidate to throw against Trump in a hypothetical 2020 primary.  

But since I dared to say something uncomplimentary against Trump and offered a half-hearted check against some animal-crackers anti-Romney conspiracy theories, you find it necessary to go on the warpath with an atopical, combative reply that borders on unhinged; and accuse me of “minimizing” concerns about Romney in what was fundamentally an anti-Romney post.

And THIS, dear @Tyme, is what we are up against; and it’s why we in the GOP have no choice but to stand back and watch this crazy train run right off the rails.  

But, no cult of personality here; nosiree . . . :whistling:

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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I think the only way romney stands a chance is if he starts differentiating himself from Trump right away. He would have to start hammering Trump on Russia collusion. Romney would need to be the anti- trump. The problem is he had to go to Trump’s side in order to win in Utah. A complete 360 will look bad. That’s his only hope though.

The only other option is Flake. I just don’t think Flake has as good of a chance as Romney. Senator Romney has name recognition and I’m sure he could raise a ton of money again. The Republicans really need to look themselves in the mirror. They’ll realize if Trump is their candidate in 2020 they’ll lose. Romney could use that as a rallying cry to get more support.

i think he stands a chance if he plays his cards right.

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In the absence of further evidence, the Russian collusion thing seems likely to turn out to be a nothingburger.  Evan McMullin has steered himself into irrelevance by insisting on dwelling in that quagmire, and other Trump challengers would be wise to learn from that example.  

 

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12 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

In the absence of further evidence, the Russian collusion thing seems likely to turn out to be a nothingburger.  Evan McMullin has steered himself into irrelevance by insisting on dwelling in that quagmire, and other Trump challengers would be wise to learn from that example.  

 

I admit it is nowhere near as bad as liberal media makes it out to be. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a nothingburger. After all the FBI did open an investigation. They don’t just do that on a whim.

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Guest Godless
41 minutes ago, Tyme said:

They’ll realize if Trump is their candidate in 2020 they’ll lose. 

A lot of people were saying that in 2016. I think Romney has a better chance of primarying Trump than most other GOP contenders, but I still don't see much chance for success there. Team Trump will never go for it and the rest of the GOP will have (well-founded) doubts about his ability to win the general election. 

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25 minutes ago, Godless said:

A lot of people were saying that in 2016. I think Romney has a better chance of primarying Trump than most other GOP contenders, but I still don't see much chance for success there. Team Trump will never go for it and the rest of the GOP will have (well-founded) doubts about his ability to win the general election. 

Also, and this is important, no sitting president has ever lost the nomination since we started having primary elections. The only one who may have lost was Johnson in 1968 which is one of the reasons he bowed out and even then that took the Vietnam war going badly to happen. With the super delegates which are part of the Democratic primary, he probably still could have clinched the nomination if he was willing to lose to Nixon. There were sitting presidents who lost the nomination before the candidates were selected by the public, but since the electorate has had a choice it hasn't happened. I don't like Trump, even though I approve of some of his economic policies, but anyone running against him in the Republican primaries in 2020 would have to have a death wish for his political career.

Edited by Midwest LDS
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1 hour ago, Tyme said:

I admit it is nowhere near as bad as liberal media makes it out to be. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a nothingburger. After all the FBI did open an investigation. They don’t just do that on a whim.

And I guess you believe that Kavanaugh was guilty of rape?

Have you not heard of the completely fabricated Dossier that was the ultimate source of any suspicion which led to the FBI investigation?

Or I guess you believe people are guilty for simply being accused?

Edited by Guest
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12 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

Has the President apologized for the market being in the red for the year? 

By what metric?  Usually when people talk of "the market" they mean the Dow.

JAN 2: 24,824

Nov13: 25,286

How is that in the red?

Edited by Guest
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2 hours ago, Tyme said:

I admit it is nowhere near as bad as liberal media makes it out to be. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a nothingburger. After all the FBI did open an investigation. They don’t just do that on a whim.

The FBI did not open an investigation.  Rosenstein - the Asst AG in the DOJ - installed Mueller to head a special investigation using Comey's firing as a trigger.  DOJ.  Not FBI.

And yes, the DOJ won't just do that on a whim... Rod Rosenstein had a big role in Spygate.  The Mueller investigation is a Spygate cover-up masked as a Russian collusion investigation.  Spygate is a giant ball of wax but I can simplify it for the purpose of making you, at least, aware of its existence by this summary:  The Obama Administration spied on the Trump Campaign by securing a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Approval.  The FISA application used a Fake Dossier put together by a British Intelligence Agent who works with the FBI and was bought and paid for by a law firm hired by the Clinton Campaign.  The RNC is implicated through McCain's delivery of the Dossier from the British Agent to the FBI.  In addition, the FBI set up an operation with British and Australian diplomats to implicate an unsuspecting Trump Campaign Foreign Policy Advisor as the source of information that Russia is in possession of Hillary's missing emails which is also used in the FISA application.  Rod Rosenstein is one of the signers of the FISA application.

The DOJ and the FBI as well as certain Democrats and Republicans in cooperation with the media have been neck-deep in covering up all this.

Edited by anatess2
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Just now, Tyme said:

I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. If the investigation does lead to some serious indictments regarding Russia collusion are you still going to deny it?

And just how long will you be willing to wait for such a result?  6 more years?  How long before YOU admit there was nothing there?

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8 minutes ago, Tyme said:

I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. If the investigation does lead to some serious indictments regarding Russia collusion are you still going to deny it?

 

7 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

And just how long will you be willing to wait for such a result?  6 more years?  How long before YOU admit there was nothing there?

In the meantime, Spygate gets burried in history as "just another conspiracy theory".

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