Mormon vs Trump

[Tyme]

Just now, LePeel said:

Its not monster painting. The political left's positions are opposite at every point to the Gosepl of Christ. They couldn't be any more obvious if they wore a sign around their necks.

Care to elaborate?

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Tyme said:

Do you think the student debt bubble is bigger than the corporate debt bubble?

Not only is student debt much smaller than corporate debt and mortgage debt, student debt is structured completely differently than corporate debt or mortgage debt.  Student debt is mostly owed directly to the government.  That bubble ain't popping because the Feds was given authority by the Supreme Court to raise money through taxation.  So, more than likely, Corporate America is going to end up paying for the college debt of students who can't get a job with their doctorates in Gender Studies...

[anatess2]

41 minutes ago, LePeel said:

I don't agree that it's monster painting. The political left's positions are opposite at every point to the Gosepl of Christ. They couldn't be any more obvious if they wore a sign around their necks.

Yep.  That's the technical definition of monster painting.

[LePeel]

3 hours ago, Tyme said:

Care to elaborate?

Reflect on your religion and imagine how well those concepts would be received in leftist circles. That gender is eternal and an immutable, unchangeable condition, for example.

 

[LePeel]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Yep.  That's the technical definition of monster painting.

Can't help that an accurate description of the Left makes them look terrible.

[Guest Godless]

Man, I haven't been on LDS.net/Mormonhub/ThirdHour in a while. I wonder how things are going over there.

https://youtu.be/UkJehlr1tEw

[Tyme]

48 minutes ago, LePeel said:

Reflect on your religion and imagine how well those concepts would be received in leftist circles. That gender is eternal and an immutable, unchangeable condition, for example.

 

You pull one thing out and believe the whole party is of the devil. Just like all LDS don't believe the same stuff -- all democrats don't. Plenty of good LDS folk are democrats.

As far as gender being eternal, immutable and unchangeable facts simply don't bear that out. You can look at brain studies of transgenders and they align with the gender they claim to be. The further research delves into gender identity the more it will disprove LDS theory. Why would somebody for heaven sake want to change their gender? It makes no sense that transgenders are lying about it. I don't know a soul who would want to change their gender for no reason. There are too many negative repercussions for a transgender person. You can talk to parents of these kids who say they've been the opposite gender their whole life. Do you actually think a parent would want to make their kid transgender for no reason? What kind of parent would do that?

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by Tyme

[LePeel]

3 hours ago, Tyme said:

You pull one thing out and believe the whole party is of the devil. Just like all LDS don't believe the same stuff -- all democrats don't. Plenty of good LDS folk are democrats.

As far as gender being eternal, immutable and unchangeable facts simply don't bear that out. You can look at brain studies of transgenders and they align with the gender they claim to be. The further research delves into gender identity the more it will disprove LDS theory. Why would somebody for heaven sake want to change their gender? It makes no sense that transgenders are lying about it. I don't know a soul who would want to change their gender for no reason. There are too many negative repercussions for a transgender person. You can talk to parents of these kids who say they've been the opposite gender their whole life. Do you actually think a parent would want to make their kid transgender for no reason? What kind of parent would do that?

 

Are you even LDS?

[anatess2]

5 hours ago, LePeel said:

Can't help that an accurate description of the Left makes them look terrible.

When you finally realize that you’re a radical right winger, the right wing of the US would become healthier.

[anatess2]

37 minutes ago, LePeel said:

Are you even LDS?

Also, when you realize the Constitution of the USA applies to 350 Million people only 7 Million of which are LDS... you’ll be a better right winger.

[LePeel]

29 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Also, when you realize the Constitution of the USA applies to 350 Million people only 7 Million of which are LDS... you’ll be a better right winger.

What are you talking about?

[anatess2]

3 minutes ago, LePeel said:

What are you talking about?

I quoted the statement I was responding to which was your response to Tyme’s.

[The Folk Prophet]

5 hours ago, Tyme said:

As far as gender being eternal, immutable and unchangeable facts simply don't bear that out. You can look at brain studies of transgenders and they align with the gender they claim to be. The further research delves into gender identity the more it will disprove LDS theory. Why would somebody for heaven sake want to change their gender? It makes no sense that transgenders are lying about it. I don't know a soul who would want to change their gender for no reason. There are too many negative repercussions for a transgender person. You can talk to parents of these kids who say they've been the opposite gender their whole life. Do you actually think a parent would want to make their kid transgender for no reason? What kind of parent would do that?

 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/38696/walsh-5-questions-matt-walsh?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro&fbclid=IwAR1gDOLA7skl9Kvklaf7b9P3xQ023giQrbPmMa8mpzMCV0clwmGj-IF5LH4

[SilentOne]

47 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Also, when you realize the Constitution of the USA applies to 350 Million people only 7 Million of which are LDS... you’ll be a better right winger.

I took @LePeel's comment to be more a response to @Tyme's positions on gender, LGBTQ issues, etc. being very far from the church position than having anything to do with LaPeel's political views.

[let’s roll]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Also, when you realize the Constitution of the USA applies to 350 Million people only 7 Million of which are LDS... you’ll be a better right winger.

Point of clarification.  The Constitution applies to anyone and everyone while they are in the U.S.so your number is too low if it’s intended to cover only U.S. citizens and permanent residents.

[Tyme]

5 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/38696/walsh-5-questions-matt-walsh?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro&fbclid=IwAR1gDOLA7skl9Kvklaf7b9P3xQ023giQrbPmMa8mpzMCV0clwmGj-IF5LH4

1) How precisely does a biological male come to the conclusion that he is really a woman?

It's in the soul and brain. Just like you know the church is true they know they are the opposite sex.

2) If he arrives at this conclusion based on the fact that he "feels like" a woman, how does he know what it feels like to be a woman?

He does indeed feel like a woman. They know based on the fact that they're more like a woman than a man. It's easy for them to see they are different from their biological sex just by looking around at other women.

3) What exactly is a female feeling?

I'd say a female feeling is to want to dress like a female, act like a female and do all things normal females around them do.

4) Even if it made sense to speak of female feelings and female thoughts, and even if it were possible for a man to know for certain that he is experiencing those feelings and thoughts, in what objective sense do those feelings and thoughts make him a woman rather than simply a feminine man?

Like I said, they know from examples around them. There are plenty of feminine men who do not think they are females. That's proof alone that they are not just feminine men. If they were feminine men their soul and brain wouldn't cause them to think they are female.

5) But the Left tells us that gender is a social construct. They reject the idea that women must necessarily have any particular feeling or thought or taste or preference. If gender is indeed an artificial construct and our physical features have no bearing on our identity as "man" or "woman," then what in the hell is a woman? A woman, in that case, is not defined by her feelings, thoughts, ideas, preferences, or her body, reproductive organs, chromosomes, DNA, etc. So what is she defined by? If he isn't defined by anything, then how does it make sense to call yourself a woman? Isn't that like calling yourself a whooziwhatsit or a thingamadoodle? Isn't "woman" now a term empty of all objective meaning?

I don't think gender is an artificial construct. In fact, most "leftists" don't think that either There are very really differences between a man's brain and a woman's brain. If you look at a transgender brain they are more in line with the sex they think they are.

 

This isn't about left or right. It's about rather we want people be to be joyful like Adam or miserable like unto the devil. Trying to make an LGBT man or woman fit into this church at this time makes them miserable. You will say that they can still marry and love. How many of those marriages end in divorce or the person is just plain miserable? This is not a church for all to find joy. It's a church for heterosexuals to find joy. That doesn't align with doctrine. The problem is that if the Prophet came out today and said LGBT can be full members there would be a schism. You can see the evidence of that in the other thread. Most people said they wouldn't believe the Prophet if he came out saying that. That's why they are not receiving revelation to solemnize LGBT in the Temple. Similar to how blacks weren't allowed the Priesthood for a long time. God in his infinite wisdom didn't send the revelation until the members were ready. The rough stone rolling will keep on rolling roughly gathering the elect of God at all costs. 

[JohnsonJones]

20 minutes ago, Tyme said:

1) How precisely does a biological male come to the conclusion that he is really a woman?

It's in the soul and brain. Just like you know the church is true they know they are the opposite sex.

2) If he arrives at this conclusion based on the fact that he "feels like" a woman, how does he know what it feels like to be a woman?

He does indeed feel like a woman. They know based on the fact that they're more like a woman than a man. It's easy for them to see they are different from their biological sex just by looking around at other women.

3) What exactly is a female feeling?

I'd say a female feeling is to want to dress like a female, act like a female and do all things normal females around them do.

4) Even if it made sense to speak of female feelings and female thoughts, and even if it were possible for a man to know for certain that he is experiencing those feelings and thoughts, in what objective sense do those feelings and thoughts make him a woman rather than simply a feminine man?

Like I said, they know from examples around them. There are plenty of feminine men who do not think they are females. That's proof alone that they are not just feminine men. If they were feminine men their soul and brain wouldn't cause them to think they are female.

5) But the Left tells us that gender is a social construct. They reject the idea that women must necessarily have any particular feeling or thought or taste or preference. If gender is indeed an artificial construct and our physical features have no bearing on our identity as "man" or "woman," then what in the hell is a woman? A woman, in that case, is not defined by her feelings, thoughts, ideas, preferences, or her body, reproductive organs, chromosomes, DNA, etc. So what is she defined by? If he isn't defined by anything, then how does it make sense to call yourself a woman? Isn't that like calling yourself a whooziwhatsit or a thingamadoodle? Isn't "woman" now a term empty of all objective meaning?

I don't think gender is an artificial construct. In fact, most "leftists" don't think that either There are very really differences between a man's brain and a woman's brain. If you look at a transgender brain they are more in line with the sex they think they are.

 

This isn't about left or right. It's about rather we want people be to be joyful like Adam or miserable like unto the devil. Trying to make an LGBT man or woman fit into this church at this time makes them miserable. You will say that they can still marry and love. How many of those marriages end in divorce or the person is just plain miserable? This is not a church for all to find joy. It's a church for heterosexuals to find joy. That doesn't align with doctrine. The problem is that if the Prophet came out today and said LGBT can be full members there would be a schism. You can see the evidence of that in the other thread. Most people said they wouldn't believe the Prophet if he came out saying that. That's why they are not receiving revelation to solemnize LGBT in the Temple. Similar to how blacks weren't allowed the Priesthood for a long time. God in his infinite wisdom didn't send the revelation until the members were ready. The rough stone rolling will keep on rolling roughly gathering the elect of God at all costs. 

MOst of those are why many disagree with the entire Trans community on WHAT is stated.  By those definitions I have a daughter who is VERY MUCH a woman who, by the items above, is NOT a woman.  She doesn't want to "dress like a female, act like a female or do the things a normal female would do" type of individual.  She actually is going for a Ph.D in Computer Science.

The idea that she is more female than male is NOT based on thought or anything else, but rather that she was actually BORN a girl.  Thus, no matter what else, she is a girl because of that.  It has NOTHING to do with how she feels per se, but that it is simply what she was born as.

She is NOT necessarily "feminine" as some would see it.  In fact, she can act very much with the boys. 

Those ideas above are the VERY reason why many reject the Transgender argument, at least for those who are trying to transition to woman who used to be men.  Most of the arguments are stereotyping women to be what MEN THINK woman are like traditionally.  NOT ironically, there are many women who REJECT these stereotypes and feel insulted when people try to label them as being or needing to be in that specific manner.

My daughter currently has 4 children with a 5th on the way and as far as I know is happily married.

That does NOT mean I do not want them to have rights or liberty.  All men (that includes women) deserve the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  ALL men (and women) deserve to be treated as equals.  However, even though I will stand up for their right not to be discriminated against, I do not necessarily agree with what some of those individuals think or stereotype woman as being or acting or feeling.

On the political statement...I'd say Republicans are just as off the mark in regards to righteousness as the Democrats currently.  They have their faults on different areas and different items, but neither is necessarily the "Righteous" party. 

I think that we should put the Lord above political parties and instead of worshipping at the feet of a political party we should worship the LORD. We should instead judge each individual running for office on their merits in regards to righteousness, trustworthiness, and their ability to actually accomplish what they are going to try to set out to do for their constituents.  Republican or Democrat (or Libertarian or Green Party, or Unionist or Labour or any other party thereof) should not be the dividing line on who we vote for, rather we should seek whoever is the BEST candidate and vote in that regards.

Edited November 27, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[anatess2]

7 hours ago, SilentOne said:

I took @LePeel's comment to be more a response to @Tyme's positions on gender, LGBTQ issues, etc. being very far from the church position than having anything to do with LaPeel's political views.

I'm fairly certain that statement also informs his decision to monster paint left wingers.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, Tyme said:

3) What exactly is a female feeling?

I'd say a female feeling is to want to dress like a female, act like a female and do all things normal females around them do.

So...what...high heels, lipstick, skirts and silky underwear?

1 hour ago, Tyme said:

4) Even if it made sense to speak of female feelings and female thoughts, and even if it were possible for a man to know for certain that he is experiencing those feelings and thoughts, in what objective sense do those feelings and thoughts make him a woman rather than simply a feminine man?

Like I said, they know from examples around them. There are plenty of feminine men who do not think they are females. That's proof alone that they are not just feminine men. If they were feminine men their soul and brain wouldn't cause them to think they are female.

So if I think I am...I am?

That's the rule?

Oh the possibilities!

1 hour ago, Tyme said:

I don't think gender is an artificial construct.

Are high heels, lipstick, skirts and silky underwear social constructs?

[Tyme]

3 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

So...what...high heels, lipstick, skirts and silky underwear?

So if I think I am...I am?

That's the rule?

Oh the possibilities!

Are high heels, lipstick, skirts and silky underwear social constructs?

If your brain pathology shows you're man then you are. It's not like a biological male just wakes up one day and goes I want to be a female. They are or they aren't.

[The Folk Prophet]

3 minutes ago, Tyme said:

If your brain pathology shows you're man then you are. It's not like a biological male just wakes up one day and goes I want to be a female. They are or they aren't.

False.

Are you going to actually answer my questions:

So...what...high heels, lipstick, skirts and silky underwear?

So if I think I am...I am?

That's the rule?

Oh the possibilities!

Are high heels, lipstick, skirts and silky underwear social constructs?

[Tyme]

3 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

False.

Are you going to actually answer my questions:

So...what...high heels, lipstick, skirts and silky underwear?

So if I think I am...I am?

That's the rule?

Oh the possibilities!

Are high heels, lipstick, skirts and silky underwear social constructs?

The moment you answer mine.

If you want to broaden your horizons go to a gay forum and argue about LGBT. I don't claim to be an expert.

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, JohnsonJones said:

On the political statement...I'd say Republicans are just as off the mark in regards to righteousness as the Democrats currently.  They have their faults on different areas and different items, but neither is necessarily the "Righteous" party. 

I think that we should put the Lord above political parties and instead of worshipping at the feet of a political party we should worship the LORD. We should instead judge each individual running for office on their merits in regards to righteousness, trustworthiness, and their ability to actually accomplish what they are going to try to set out to do for their constituents.  Republican or Democrat (or Libertarian or Green Party, or Unionist or Labour or any other party thereof) should not be the dividing line on who we vote for, rather we should seek whoever is the BEST candidate and vote in that regards.

I agree with this.

Today, though, the Republican Party underwent a course correction that started with the organic formation of the TEA Party and are currently wrestling among themselves on where to put the party platform.  So you got liberals to centrists to conservatives all within one Party trying to find their balance.  On the other hand, the Democratic Party is desperately needing a reform as the old guard desperately tries to retain control of a political platform that has been raided by identitarians.  This weakness of the old guard who still has power enough to silence the rank and file and their refusal to let go of the reigns to strengthen young leadership has left them open to a challenge by the radical leftists who are very unwise in their youth.  So, as the Republican Party stretches their ideas from the radical right all the way to the center left with the majority of them amassing in the center right, the Democratic Party narrows themselves from radical left to center left with the majority of them amassing more left of center left.

[Tyme]

2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I agree with this.

Today, though, the Republican Party underwent a course correction that started with the organic formation of the TEA Party and are currently wrestling among themselves on where to put the party platform.  So you got liberals to centrists to conservatives all within one Party trying to find their balance.  On the other hand, the Democratic Party is desperately needing a reform as the old guard desperately tries to retain control of a political platform that has been raided by identitarians.  This weakness of the old guard who still has power enough to silence the rank and file and their refusal to let go of the reigns to strengthen young leadership has left them open to a challenge by the radical leftists who are very unwise in their youth.  So, as the Republican Party stretches their ideas from the radical right all the way to the center left with the majority of them amassing in the center right, the Democratic Party narrows themselves from radical left to center left with the majority of them amassing more left of center left.

Bernie Sanders is like 100 years old. I wouldn't call leftists unwise in their youth. Just because Alexandria has became prominent doesn't mean they're all young.

[The Folk Prophet]

13 hours ago, Tyme said:

Do you actually think a parent would want to make their kid transgender for no reason?

No. Never. 

https://www.dailywire.com/news/38728/mom-says-6-year-old-son-transgender-dad-disagrees-amanda-prestigiacomo?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-podcast&utm_campaign=mattwalsh&fbclid=IwAR2_dHgF23i89bEtp54VZQN_jBQtrYuL14vs8SwFAmbF0XhokT1-4b8TJiU