Test for Being Open-Minded

[mirkwood]

I was once told I was close minded because I was religious.  I replied, "I believe in something I cannot tangibly prove to anyone.  Remind me again how that is closed minded?"

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Bias is not correlated to open-mindedness.

Bias is simply a default position.  For example, "Innocent until Proven Guilty" is a bias to Innocence.  But it is not close-minded to Guilt.

One can only be open minded when they reduce or neutralize their bias

[JohnsonJones]

5 hours ago, MormonGator said:

You can't put most of my close friends in a box. I have friends who are huge liberals-but own guns.

They say they want gun control so that everyone gets their guns taken away but they get to keep theirs...afterall...they are the only ones smart enough to have them...

5 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I have friends who are right wing republicans-but read the Village Voice. So I'm very very lucky. 

They say they want more taxes so that everyone must help the poor and needy...except for them...afterall...they are the only ones humble enough to help those in need voluntarily every 10 years or so...

4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

THAT'S AWESOME. 

Yes...yes it is...oh wait...you weren't responding to my jokes above???

[Just_A_Guy]

It’s amusing to me, in the inevitable pre-hearing settlement discussions, how often defense counsel (usually a privately employed one—public defenders aren’t usually this egotistical) walk in and say “JAG, there’s just no way my client did this.  Your witness is making stuff up”.  It sets me up to say “well, I don’t know that either of us is in a position to say who did what—we there, we don’t know, and long ago I made peace with the fact that in these sorts of cases I’ll never really know.  I can only try to draw a conclusion from the evidence we have so far.  Here’s the evidence I see, and maybe you can tell me why you think the judge will draw a different conclusion than I have?”

Few things will deflate bluster like a little common sense, followed by a thoughtful question.  

(Unless, of course, you have access to a “ban” button.)  

Edited November 15, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[The Folk Prophet]

23 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Few things will deflate bluster like a little common sense, followed by a thoughtful question.  

Here's the thing: I think where we really get into trouble with open-mindedness (rather, the lack thereof) is related to thoughtful questions.

I'm moderately closed-minded on the questions I can answer.

When and if someone asks me a question I cannot answer, that is the time when open-mindedness comes into play a bit. Do I ignore and stubbornly press on in my view regardless of the inability to answer? Or do I diligently seek an answer?

Obviously not all things have answers. And to disbelieve anything without a complete answer...well...that means not believing much of anything, because very little is truly, ultimately fully provable. (I'll inject the Matrix ideology here as support and move on.) But having a decent explanation that comes from rational thought...vs irrationally pressing on with the traditions of ones parents...or culture...or church...or scientific community...or television parenting...or etc... Not wise.

That is, of course, the core beauty of the true Church of Jesus Christ. It is, in the end, fully rational. No one is asked to believe blindly. God may be known. But only by God.

[zil]

I'm sort of falling into the camp of:

A) Have we defined "open-minded" in such a way that it can be consistently identified as present or absent, or measured consistently?

B) Are we sure it's actually a good thing?

I'm reading C. S. Lewis's space trilogy (am on Perelandra now) and have just finished the bit (possible SPOILER - though the way the books are written, I tend to think it doesn't matter that much) where the character has concluded that maybe there's no difference between "completely free" and "predestined" - as either way, one has completely accepted the will of God and is acting it out.  And something in my head is linking that to this idea of "open-minded" - is not knowing the will of God and doing it the most open-minded thing one can do?  Is not omniscience as open-minded as it gets?  And yet this is the complete opposite of being "open" to having one's mind changed.  So if it's not open-minded, then open-minded isn't a good thing.

I think I would prefer to be called teachable or humble or faithful than "open-minded".

Edited November 17, 2018 by zil

[lostinwater]

i have found that for just about anything that really matters in life, it's my heart that has to change, not my mind.  My mind just makes up intellectual justifications for how i feel about something.  So i guess keeping an open mind is secondary to keeping an open heart.  And that i think is manifested in how you treat someone who disagrees with you.  

And i think all of us can change how we feel about something.  i've sure done some 180 degree turns in life - and i'd have sworn until i was blue in the face that *i* never would change.  Someone is completely against homosexuality until their sibling comes out.  Someone believes everyone with gender dysphoria are mentally ill sociopaths who are running around suing everyone until one of their closest friends reveals what they've been feeling for the past many years.

People believe in God until they accidentally run over their child when backing out of the driveway, or see their family nearly starve to death because it hasn't rained enough for the past 3 years.  Or lose a daughter to suicide, having received no prompting to get up and check on them.  Or someone is against all gun control, until their child gets murdered.  

[Fether]

Full disclosure, I only scanned this thread. But I just wanted to leave this little nugget of wisdom I heard from an investigator on my mission.

”The purpose of having an open mind is to eventually close it on to something”

- investigator

Being firmly grounded in the idea of always being open minded sounds like the actions of a foolish man. Their homes are most certainly built on sand

Edited November 17, 2018 by Fether

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Here's the thing: I think where we really get into trouble with open-mindedness (rather, the lack thereof) is related to thoughtful questions.

I'm moderately closed-minded on the questions I can answer.

When and if someone asks me a question I cannot answer, that is the time when open-mindedness comes into play a bit. Do I ignore and stubbornly press on in my view regardless of the inability to answer? Or do I diligently seek an answer?

Obviously not all things have answers. And to disbelieve anything without a complete answer...well...that means not believing much of anything, because very little is truly, ultimately fully provable. (I'll inject the Matrix ideology here as support and move on.) But having a decent explanation that comes from rational thought...vs irrationally pressing on with the traditions of ones parents...or culture...or church...or scientific community...or television parenting...or etc... Not wise.

That is, of course, the core beauty of the true Church of Jesus Christ. It is, in the end, fully rational. No one is asked to believe blindly. God may be known. But only by God.

The funny thing about people is that most of them are suckers for a puzzle.  The cool (manipulative?) thing about the “thoughtful question” is that if framed well and posed with the right body language, it can’t help but draw people into your point of view and turn them into your ally in solving what has become a mutually vexing question.  

I find the technique works better in in-person oral communications; because via writing, a stubborn person can just pretend not to get the point and you get stuck down the rabbit hole of trying to clarify yourself.  In person, I can usually tell  fairly quickly via body language when a person is deliberately playing dumb.  

Edited November 17, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest]

6 hours ago, zil said:

I'm sort of falling into the camp of:

A) Have we defined "open-minded" in such a way that it can be consistently identified as present or absent, or measured consistently?

B) Are we sure it's actually a good thing?

I think I would prefer to be called teachable or humble or faithful than "open-minded".

Like so many things, it's a question of balance.  If we don't close our minds on at least SOMEthing, then we are as a wave of the sea, driven with the wind and tossed.  But it is hubris to close our minds an a VAST array of concepts. That would require so much knowledge that mere morals simply cannot know enough to be that certain about too many things.  

Yes, one could argue that the Spirit gives conviction... True.  And it is technically possible.  But how many people do you know of that are so in tune with the Spirit that virtually everything they say is absolute truth that we can hang our hat on for all eternity?  Even the Prophet doesn't fit that bill 24/7.

Quote

One needs to be slow to form convictions, but once formed they must be defended against the heaviest odds.

  -- Gandhi

I find it all too common for people to form convictions at the drop of a hat because the platitudes that support it sound so good.

[zil]

8 hours ago, Carborendum said:

But it is hubris to close our minds an a VAST array of concepts.

Exactly.  Hence, teachable.

[The Folk Prophet]

12 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The funny thing about people is that most of them are suckers for a puzzle.  The cool (manipulative?) thing about the “thoughtful question” is that if framed well and posed with the right body language, it can’t help but draw people into your point of view and turn them into your ally in solving what has become a mutually vexing question.  

I find the technique works better in in-person oral communications; because via writing, a stubborn person can just pretend not to get the point and you get stuck down the rabbit hole of trying to clarify yourself.  In person, I can usually tell  fairly quickly via body language when a person is deliberately playing dumb.  

To be fair, deliberately playing dumb is a kind of full on legitimate dumb in and of itself.