Daniel and Alma

[Fether]

Just looking for some insight. In preparing the primary lesson today on Daniel and the Lions Den, I read yet again the bit about how the princes and king made it law that no one should pray to anyone but the king or they would be out to death.

Each time I read this I am reminded of the story of Alms and his people on the wilderness. In Mosiah 24:11 we learn that Amulon had guards watch over the people of Alma, and if they were caught praying they would be put to death.

Two similar situations yet completely different responses.

Daniel: Faithfuly prayed in defiance and was miraculously saved.

Alma’s people: Taught to not pray openly but to pray in their hearts

Any insights on to why these experiences were different? Why wouldn’t Alma, the prophet, tell the people to pray anyway as Daniel did?

[zil]

Perhaps because Daniel was alone (or just with a few friends) and the consequences were his to choose and bear, but Alma had a whole group with him, with varying faith, and whom Amulon could use to punish by proxy, so to speak ("obey or I beat your sister" kind of thing).

Edited December 2, 2018 by zil

[mikbone]

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

Just looking for some insight. In preparing the primary lesson today on Daniel and the Lions Den, I read yet again the bit about how the princes and king made it law that no one should pray to anyone but the king or they would be out to death.

Each time I read this I am reminded of the story of Alms and his people on the wilderness. In Mosiah 24:11 we learn that Amulon had guards watch over the people of Alma, and if they were caught praying they would be put to death.

Two similar situations yet completely different responses.

Daniel: Faithfuly prayed in defiance and was miraculously saved.

Alma’s people: Taught to not pray openly but to pray in their hearts

Any insights on to why these experiences were different? Why wouldn’t Alma, the prophet, tell the people to pray anyway as Daniel did?

Daniel and his fellows had a very different relationship with the king (one of authority) than Alma's people did with their overseers (as prisoners).

[Anddenex]

I wonder of this also has implication toward praying toward Jerusalem three times a day. This was the tradition, in accordance with events previous; whereas, the Nephites did not have such the tradition as Jerusalem was on the other side of the world.

 

[mordorbund]

4 hours ago, Anddenex said:

I wonder of this also has implication toward praying toward Jerusalem three times a day. This was the tradition, in accordance with events previous; whereas, the Nephites did not have such the tradition as Jerusalem was on the other side of the world.

 

 

It's a practice captured in the dedicatory prayer of the Jerusalem Temple.

Quote

 But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!

Have respect therefore to the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O Lord my God, to hearken unto the cry and the prayer which thy servant prayeth before thee: That thine eyes may be open upon this house day and night, upon the place whereof thou hast said that thou wouldest put thy name there; to hearken unto the prayer which thy servant prayeth toward this place.

Hearken therefore unto the supplications of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, which they shall make toward this place: hear thou from thy dwelling place, even from heaven; and when thou hearest, forgive.

As the Nephites (though not Alma's people) had more local temples, I imagine they could have had a similar practice.

[JohnsonJones]

15 hours ago, mordorbund said:

 

It's a practice captured in the dedicatory prayer of the Jerusalem Temple.

As the Nephites (though not Alma's people) had more local temples, I imagine they could have had a similar practice.

How many temples did they have?

I believe Nephi Built one and that there was one in the Land Bountiful.  We also know the King Benjamin taught at the temple and that Alma and others referred to a temple.  At any one of these times though, that would only mean they had one or two working at any specific time period.  How many others are mentioned in the Book of Mormon?

As far as the Original Question, I think it is a matter of power, individual evil, and authority.

In Daniel's case the King was not the specific aggressor.  It was advisors who were out to deal the damage, and the King ruled over them.  Daniel still risked death, and could have been killed.  In fact, Daniel WAS thrown to the Lion's Den.  It was ONLY after the miraculous saving of his life by the Lord that he was gotten out and the Law changed.  It could be that the standard punishment was to be fed to the  Lion's rather than be slain outright.

On the otherhand those who were over Alma were exceedingly hard hearted towards Alma's people themselves.  It could be that death was done on the spot or personally by them.  Their ruler himself was the aggressor and very likely to pursue the punishment no matter the cost.

I imagine in both instances, they were led by the spirit and/or revelation on what course of action was the wisest course.

Edited December 4, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[mordorbund]

2 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

How many temples did they have?

I believe Nephi Built one and that there was one in the Land Bountiful.  We also know the King Benjamin taught at the temple and that Alma and others referred to a temple.  At any one of these times though, that would only mean they had one or two working at any specific time period.  How many others are mentioned in the Book of Mormon?

Those were the ones I was referring to. When I said they had "more local temples", I didn't mean they had more temples than the Jerusalem people (and they happened to be local); I meant they had temples that were more local than the Jerusalem temple, so if they were facing toward a temple during prayer it would have been that one.

[askandanswer]

You might also want to consider the following. I think there are some similarities.

Alma 14:8  And they brought their wives and children together, and whosoever believed or had been taught to believe in the word of God they caused that they should be cast into the fire; and they also brought forth their records which contained the holy scriptures, and cast them into the fire also, that they might be burned and destroyed by fire.
9  And it came to pass that they took Alma and Amulek, and carried them forth to the place of martyrdom, that they might witness the destruction of those who were consumed by fire.
10  And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene?  Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames.
11  But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.
12  Now Amulek said unto Alma: Behold, perhaps they will burn us also.
13  And Alma said: Be it according to the will of the Lord.  But, behold, our work is not finished; therefore they burn us not.
14  Now it came to pass that when the bodies of those who had been cast into the fire were consumed, and also the records which were cast in with them, the chief judge of the land came and stood before Alma and Amulek, as they were bound; and he smote them with his hand upon their cheeks, and said unto them: After what ye have seen, will ye preach again unto this people, that they shall be cast into a lake of fire and brimstone?
15  Behold, ye see that ye had not power to save those who had been cast into the fire; neither has God saved them because they were of thy faith.  And the judge smote them again upon their cheeks, and asked: What say ye for yourselves?
16  Now this judge was after the order and faith of Nehor, who slew Gideon.
17  And it came to pass that Alma and Amulek answered him nothing; and he smote them again, and delivered them to the officers to be cast into prison.
 

[Just_A_Guy]

Daniel and his three friends were by no means the only Jews in Babylon at this time—the political and theological cream of Jewish society was carried to Babylon before Zedekiah was installed as king, including (if memory serves) Ezekiel; and this core is the seed from which rabbinic Judaism and the Old Testament as we know it emerged.

The fact that there was no recorded mass slaughter of Babylonian Jews at the time of Darius’ decree, and the fact that Mordecai’s defiance before Haman/Ahasuerus seems atypical Jews seem to have been tolerated in Persia until Haman started stirring up trouble, and the royal household apparently didn’t even initially know that Esther was a Jew) suggests to me that post-diaspora Jews tended to keep a low profile when they could and that the open defiance exhibited by luminaries such as Daniel, Meshach, Shadrach, Abed-nego, Mordecai, and Esther was the exception rather than the rule.