My Prediction of the End of the United States

[Guest Scott]

On 12/17/2018 at 10:43 AM, anatess2 said:

Enforcing excessive laws and regulations on the very few countries who have managed to achieve prosperity to the point that they have the luxury of choosing long-term environment protection over immediate survival does not solve your problems when the majority of the planet is occupied by those who do not have the luxury of worrying about what they are going to breathe in 50 years when they're barely fighting to stay alive today.

Rather, enforcing excessive laws and regulations on those few countries would risk their decline out of prosperity back to the point of barely fighting to stay alive (perfect example is what is happening to France today) sending environmental concerns back to the bottom of the "important for survival" stack because now you're back to choosing between dying of starvation or dying of pollution.

 

 

That would be true if the laws were truly excessive or unobtainable economically, but most are not and are obtainable.

Here is a study that just came out of the University of Utah that links air pollution with miscarriages.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/12/18/another-utah-study-shows/

That basically means that people may be forcing others to involuntarily abort their babies.

Environmental protection and a good economy are not mutually exclusive of each other.

There are plenty of ways to cut back on pollution without being excessive.

Nature Conservancy is always non-partisan and has many articles on the topic:

https://global.nature.org/collections/economics
 

[DennisTate]

On 12/3/2018 at 12:14 AM, dogwater said:

I think the Trump and the animosity are a hiccup while we sort out our tribalist behaviors into a more constructive path. I think the society and system can withstand the pressure and adapt in a constructive way.

I agree..... I do believe that as long as the USA will continue to be a good ally to Israel.........

she will continue as a nation....... and will be corrected as every loved child is corrected.  

I really liked the way that this former Atheist and near death experiencer was shown that G-d is

preventing all out nuclear war.  

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/howard-storm.html#a04

[NeuroTypical]

The meme-o-sphere has caught on to this whole notion.  Today's meme was along the lines of "These days are cool.  It's like living through the fall of Rome, but this time with Wi-Fi."

[anatess2]

On 12/21/2018 at 1:24 PM, Scott said:

That would be true if the laws were truly excessive or unobtainable economically, but most are not and are obtainable.

Here is a study that just came out of the University of Utah that links air pollution with miscarriages.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/12/18/another-utah-study-shows/

That basically means that people may be forcing others to involuntarily abort their babies.

Environmental protection and a good economy are not mutually exclusive of each other.

There are plenty of ways to cut back on pollution without being excessive.

Nature Conservancy is always non-partisan and has many articles on the topic:

https://global.nature.org/collections/economics
 

Not all regulations are excessive and the Trump Administration did not revoke all regulations.  The regulations that the Trump Administration worked to change WERE TRULY excessive. 

Did you watch that Rubin interview I shared with you?

[Traveler]

I will make my predictions for the end of the USA and the constitution.  It is based in history and the Book of Mormon.

Step #1. The model for bringing down the Qing Dynasty – most of which occurred around the 19th Century.   A Secret Combination – perhaps even the same that was organized to destroy the Chinese Qing Dynasty will establish a drug trade in the USA.  The Secret Combination will be deeply embedded in both political parties.  Note – there has already been a president of the USA with known family ties to the Drug Cartel that destroyed the Qing Dynasty.

Step #2.  The USA will be drawn into multiple quagmire wars that are never ended or won.  This has many purposes.  To involve patriotic citizens in discoursing foreign wars, increase national debt, create a war time economy and a culture (glamour) of violence.

Step #3.  Political violence will increase within the borders among the citizens of the USA.  Initially (like in Germany) the violence will involve the upcoming generation and will be spawned from universities and places of learning.

Step #4.  All religion and beliefs in G-d will be ridiculed.   This will start as a ban from places of learning (separation of church and state) and then expanded to all “public” places

Step #5.  Political reprisals will take place and fan the flames of violence.    Political opposition will be targeted and anyone not involved (directly or indirectly) to secret combinations will find violent protests at their doorsteps of their home - threatening even their children .  The nation will be divided one camp of violence against another (except for Zion but some of Zion will be enticed into  violence).

Step #6 It will be discovered that through secret combinations, judges have been protecting their own and letting them off with reduced sentences or blatantly false lies claiming that laws were not broken.   The secret combinations will penetrate all major government programs like the IRS, Justice Department, FBI, CIA and even the CDC.  This will spell the end of constitutional law as the remaining “law abiding” citizens will lose confidence in the federal government and things will collapse to local controls.

Step #7 – This may not be the last step but possessions will become “slippery” mostly because of greed and altered morals from recreational drug use and addictions - which are also products of the secret combinations (organized through drug cartels).   Possessions will become so slippery that they will disappear from the front doorstep of homes – seconds or moments after they are place there or delivered by UPS or Federal Express.

There may (likely) be other steps - but hopefully the reader can see the basis and means of the end which will progress regardless of who is elected president.

 

The Traveler

Edited December 29, 2018 by Traveler

[Guest Scott]

On 12/27/2018 at 9:35 PM, anatess2 said:

Not all regulations are excessive and the Trump Administration did not revoke all regulations.  The regulations that the Trump Administration worked to change WERE TRULY excessive. 

Do you have any proof of this?  I want to see real data and equations, and evidence, not a blanket statement saying that they were excessive.

Also, if the ones the Trump Administration are working to change are so excessive, then why are they being met?   If power plants are already meeting the pollution rollbacks, why change them?

For example, the Trump Administration wants to roll back the 2011 mercury pollution limits that power plants are already meeting.  Since the limits were set in place mercury pollution has gone down by 80%.   Why roll them back if they have been successful?   If they were excessive, then why hasn't the entire power grid now shut down.   The cost to power bills has been minuscule.  If the rule was excessive the power grid would have been shut down by now.

On 12/27/2018 at 9:35 PM, anatess2 said:

Did you watch that Rubin interview I shared with you?

Yes, I saw it.

[anatess2]

On 1/1/2019 at 11:53 AM, Scott said:

Do you have any proof of this?  I want to see real data and equations, and evidence, not a blanket statement saying that they were excessive.

I gave you several already.  Which one would you like to discuss in more detail?

 

On 1/1/2019 at 11:53 AM, Scott said:

Also, if the ones the Trump Administration are working to change are so excessive, then why are they being met?   If power plants are already meeting the pollution rollbacks, why change them?  For example, the Trump Administration wants to roll back the 2011 mercury pollution limits that power plants are already meeting.  Since the limits were set in place mercury pollution has gone down by 80%.   Why roll them back if they have been successful?   If they were excessive, then why hasn't the entire power grid now shut down.   The cost to power bills has been minuscule.  If the rule was excessive the power grid would have been shut down by now.

They were being met at the expense of economic health.  Loosening excessive regulations on coal served 3 purposes - 1.) US becoming energy independent, 2.) opening US job opportunities, 3.) leverage against China on the Korean conflict.

 

On 1/1/2019 at 11:53 AM, Scott said:

Yes, I saw it.

And?

[Guest Scott]

8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I gave you several already.  Which one would you like to discuss in more detail?

 

They were being met at the expense of economic health. Loosening excessive regulations on coal served 3 purposes - 1.) US becoming energy independent, 2.) opening US job opportunities, 3.) leverage against China on the Korean conflict.

 

And?

It is true that environmental restrictions cost money to the companies that produce energy.   It is also true that restrictions save billions of dollars in health care cost.

Let's start with the Obama era restrictions on coal fired power plants I mentioned above.   Both the EPA and the industry themselves say that the restrictions will cost $7.4 billion to $9.6 billion.   Both the industry and the EPA accept those figures, so it's rather pointless to debate those figures since it seems everyone is in agreement.

Yes, that is expensive, but it is also estimated that those restrictions will reduce health care cost by $80 billion annually.   Unless you believe that that figure is all a conspiracy, this is a no-brainer.

Also a lot of the utility companies themselves have said that they already installed the pollution reducing equipment.  The restrictions were working just fine, so they were not excessive.   

Further, the US could be equally energy independent whether or not we have coal fired power plants.  Even without the restrictions, the free market is slowly (but not quickly enough) replacing coal fired power plants.  There are a lot of things that can be done as well.   

As far as jobs go, I don't know if you have ever worked at a coal mine, but if you are picturing a hard worker with a pick and shovel in hand that isn't what happens now days.   Most of the employees I worked with were entitled union workers that tend to be very lazy.   When I worked at the mine, I almost had to twist their arm to do simple task such as vehicle inspections and filling out their time sheets.  The union protects their jobs so a lot of them do the bare minimum and it's almost impossible to fire them no matter how lazy they are.   Those guys are making $50 an hour too; more than the engineers (who aren't union).  

Here's an example of what it's like.   At the mine, one guy was driving a fully loaded truck which weighs 67,000 pounds and has a payload of more than 64,000 pounds.   We was going more than four times the allowable speed (according to the MSHA investigation) and ended up hitting a blade a severely injuring the blade operator.   We fired him.   He went to the Union and the Union made us hire him back.  In addition to the accident, he was an incredibly lazy employee as well.  The Union makes it almost impossible to fire those employees.

Also, even according to Trump unemployment is at an all time low and there are more jobs than there are people to fill them.  If someone can't find a job, it has nothing to do with the restrictions on pollution.   You have a bigger problem if you can't find a job.  

The problem in these coal mining towns, which is where I lived for the last 14 years before moving last month is that you have a bunch of people that work at the mine who are uneducated, usually (but not always-some people are better than others) quite lazy, but who are used to making $50 an hour. That's why those people are so worried about coal jobs.  Myself, I really wouldn't shed a tear even if the mine shut down.   Also, a lot of utility companies are also basically government sanctioned monopolies whether anyone admits it or not. 

The economy is not going to collapse due to reasonable restrictions on pollution.   It will do just fine.   If we can spend 3-4 trillion on the useless Iraq war, everyone here should be willing to pay a little bit to give us and our children a better life.  The cost far outweighs the cost of more pollution.  

As far as the China Korea situation goes, this would be a simple solution if any president and administration had the guts to do it. Simply give China the choice.   Tell them that China can either trade with the US or trade with North Korea.   Tell them that it is their choice, but they can't do both.  That would solve the problem quicker than anyone else and unless China is incredibly stupid, it is obvious as to which choice they would make.  If Trump would make such a move, I would support him on it, but like past presidents and administrations, I doubt he has the guts to go that far.  I would support any president and administration on this whether they were democrat, republican, or other.  

Your argument seems to be that if there are any more pollution restrictions, then the economy will collapse.   I call BS.  Yes, they might cost money, but in the grand scheme of things, it is worth the cost.

Also, industry aside, there are many things that can be done to encourage people to be greener without raising taxes.

For example, make roads 100% dependent on the gas tax, rather than ~50%.  Right now, about 50% of highway dollars comes from the general fund and 50% comes from gas taxes.    Making 100% come from gas tax and 0% from the general fund won't increase taxes, it will simply make it a user tax where those who use the roads pay (more at least) fairly for what they use.

Right now, older cars and trucks, which are the ones that pollute more are taxed almost nothing in most states.  The tax should be more evenly distributed.  

The above would also simplify the non-IRS tax code which it seems that Republicans would be happy with.   Anyone can buy any vehicle they want and all roads are paid with using the gas tax. 

The downside to the above is that tax rates on gasoline would have to be raised if everyone drove more  fuel efficient vehicles.   Many have used this argument and it is true.

Many claim that fuel efficient cars aren't paying their share of road cost, but it is really the opposite.   It is trucks and big trucks that don't pay their fair share.   I guess electric cars might be the exception, but there really aren't that many on the road.  I don't have a solution for electric vehicles.  

Cars and lightweight crossovers are the ones paying far more than their share for the roads, while trucks, big SUVs, and more so 18 wheelers are the paying much less of their share; at least on highways.  

The reason is that the average full sized pickup does approximately 20 times more damage to a highway than the average sedan, but an average loaded 18 wheeler does approximately 10,000 times the amount of damage to the highway than the average full sized pickup truck.

The accusation made by some that fuel efficient vehicles aren't paying their fair share isn't true.  It is really the opposite.  I guess that's a whole different topic though.  

Either way, using the gas tax for all highway funding would make things more fair for all users and in the end might encourage people to be more green without restricting their freedom to still buy what they want if they choose to do so.  This is just one example of one thing that could be done.  

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Scott

[Guest MormonGator]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-world-is-getting-quietly-relentlessly-better-11546430400?mod=e2fb

This thread got me thinking. Maybe the doom and gloom that many of us seem to have isn't warranted. 

A very wise (and charming and handsome and funny and witty) person shared this on his facebook page. 

[Anddenex]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-world-is-getting-quietly-relentlessly-better-11546430400?mod=e2fb

This thread got me thinking. Maybe the doom and gloom that many of us seem to have isn't warranted. 

A very wise (and charming and handsome and funny and witty) person shared this on his facebook page. 

"If we can solve global poverty, we can solve other problems like climate change" - Subtitle - hard to really read anything after this.  If he believes "climate change" (aka global warming disguise) can be solved. then he probably isn't accurately seeing how things really are.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Anddenex said:

"If we can solve global poverty, we can solve other problems like climate change" - Subtitle - hard to really read anything after this.  If he believes "climate change" (aka global warming disguise) can be solved. then he probably isn't accurately seeing how things really are.

lol.

Remember @Anddenex-it's only fake news if it goes against our political and religious beliefs! 

[Guest]

On 1/2/2019 at 7:40 PM, MormonGator said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-world-is-getting-quietly-relentlessly-better-11546430400?mod=e2fb

This thread got me thinking. Maybe the doom and gloom that many of us seem to have isn't warranted. 

A very wise (and charming and handsome and funny and witty) person shared this on his facebook page. 

Yup.  Just doom and gloom.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-05/what-to-expect-in-us-china-relations-in-2019/10671434

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/be-ready-for-war-crisis-chinese-president-xi-jinping-tells-army/story-MHbvd9JcOECEDg3591X4SP.html

[Guest MormonGator]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Yup.  Just doom and gloom.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-05/what-to-expect-in-us-china-relations-in-2019/10671434

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/be-ready-for-war-crisis-chinese-president-xi-jinping-tells-army/story-MHbvd9JcOECEDg3591X4SP.html

If I wake up every day and say "Today is the day I'm going to die." eventually I'll be right. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by MormonGator

[Guest]

10 hours ago, MormonGator said:

If I wake up every day and say "Today is the day I'm going to die." eventually I'll be right. 

That's the spirit.  Keep up the good work.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Carborendum said:

That's the spirit.  Keep up the good work.

That's awesome. 

It's something I find very fascinating about religion.  Converting helped me see the world in a much more positive light, while I've noticed that some (some, not all. Some) religious people are really hung up on the "sky is falling, doom and gloom, world is ending" thing. 

[Guest]

Just now, MormonGator said:

some religious people are really hung up on the "sky is falling, doom and gloom, world is ending" thing. 

Isn't it wonderful?

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

Isn't it wonderful?

Dude, you are on fire today. Awesome! Lol! 

[Guest]

Just now, MormonGator said:

Dude, you are on fire today. Awesome! Lol! 

After a good night's sleep (which I've been too busy for lately) yeah, I'm in a pretty good mood.

How're you?

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

How're you?

We got a new puppy, so we're doing great. Cute little Dalmatian named "Clarice". We drove 5 hours from our house to Atlanta yesterday so we're a little tired. Slept for about 10 hours it seems last night! 

[discoqueendiva]

Well i dont trust  trump  , i think anything could  happen,  right now it just feels like a lot of rumors of wars are going around.    It will be interesting to see how things will happen in the next couple of years.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

On 12/29/2018 at 2:02 PM, Traveler said:

Step #4.  All religion and beliefs in G-d will be ridiculed.   This will start as a ban from places of learning (separation of church and state) and then expanded to all “public” places

This is the key I think. September 1995 the church released the proclamation on the family, within 20 years the idea of the traditional family was well and truly under attack. In 2000 the church released "The Living Christ." By 2020 we should see the idea of organized religion, especially Judaeo-Christian beliefs, under serious assault. I believe that we will see the corrupt government begin a restriction on the sharing and practice of certain, so called 'pushy' religions. In other words, the proselyting of religion that we are known for. A ban on religions that 'hurt feelings' by telling or rather making people feel guilty will seem prudent to the rest of the population. "Be nice" will become the watchword of those that would see our religion, and others that stick to true moral principles, destroyed. I know this is a very badly worded response, but I am on the way to work and need to go. 

Cheers all. Remember to keep doing the Come Follow Me manual in order to strengthen you for the days of trial ahead.

[Traveler]

On 1/6/2019 at 7:27 AM, MormonGator said:

That's awesome. 

It's something I find very fascinating about religion.  Converting helped me see the world in a much more positive light, while I've noticed that some (some, not all. Some) religious people are really hung up on the "sky is falling, doom and gloom, world is ending" thing. 

Throughout history there has always been a "sky is falling, doom and gloom, world is ending" thing going on.  It is my understanding that our universe is in general, not a safe place for living things to not pay attention to what is going on all about them at any level.  Obviously there will always be a challenge to survive what will happen next.  Part of the challenge is to be able to anticipate what is coming and being flexible enough to modify behavior to adjust to changes.

As much as I am excited to see the Messiah return - I am not sure that we should anticipate that what will transpire to prepare the world as and lot a fun and amusement park ride kind of excitement.  I am observing many that I care a great deal about - making choices that will ruin (at least for them and in part for those that love them) the positive light that comes with Christ and following that light.

 

The Traveler

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

Throughout history there has always been a "sky is falling, doom and gloom, world is ending" thing going on. 

Exactly-and the sky hasn't fallen yet. 

I remember Catholic friends complaining that Obama would persecute the Catholic church. They said it's the "worst time in history to be Catholic." When someone asked "Worse than when priests were being executed and monasteries were being closed during Henry VIII?" No one had a good answer. 
 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Exactly-and the sky hasn't fallen yet. 
 

FWIW, I feel more optimistic than I have been in a long time...I credit this in large part to President Nelson.  His optimism inspires me, and I LOVE the changes the Lord has directed him to make in the church.  I can't wait to see what comes next!  While I'm waiting, I'm working on the counsel he has already given us.  His direction to cultivate, use and expand our spiritual gifts has brought great things into my life. 

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, Traveler said:

As much as I am excited to see the Messiah return - I am not sure that we should anticipate that what will transpire to prepare the world as and lot a fun and amusement park ride kind of excitement. 

You've met a lot of people who think Armageddon = Disneyland?