What's "Anti-Mormon" to you?

[prisonchaplain]

3 hours ago, lostinwater said:

So i guess this depends on which God you are referring to.  The God of the Muslims, or the Trinity, or Jesus, or God the Father.  Or the Protestant or Lutheran, or Jehovas Witness version of God.  

I know I am tearing this quote out of a conversation, but it raises a common objection to religion. There are so many beliefs about God/god/gods and the afterlife. Are they all pretty much right and meaningful? Is there even such a thing as ultimate truth? Are some right and others wrong? Is one right and all others wrong? Isn't it wiser just to discount it all, since none rises above the others?

This line of thought is misleading. Religion can be divided into some really broad camps. Polytheism, Monotheism and Atheism, for example. Polytheism usually does not require a singular truth, and adherents follow the god of their people and place, generally with no compulsion to evangelize/proselytize others. Monotheists, in contrast, follow a universal God--the Creator. The belief system is followed by roughly half the world, with over two billion Christians, and about two billion Muslims. The one God is believed to be the same as that worshipped by Jews (15 million).

My own line of thinking then is that if polytheism is true I do not much care. My people and region do not have a local god, and I figure I'll do fine just to stay out of the way of all those small gods. Besides, I do believe there is one God who created everything. So, I look first to the most ancient monotheistic faith--Judaism. It's rabbis are commanded, in the Talmud, to discourage me from converting three times, before they will consider me as a possible proselyte. They suggest I follow the religion of my upbringing, or just try to do well. If they are not eager for me, I'm not sure that's a God I need to pursue. The God of Islam requires that I learn Arabic if I want to really know his words, and pray proper prayers. That also seems standoffish. The Christian God sent his Son to die for me. His Spirit draws me. His followers invite me. They learn my language, teach me to read and write, build hospitals to care for me--they feed and clothe me, and visit me when I am in prison.

Then I look at how this God would have me live. Sometimes it is hard, but it is so noble. Love my enemies? Respect my wife so much I do not even lust after other women. Share the good truths I learn with whoever I can. This is a God I want to follow. Forever.

Edited December 12, 2018 by prisonchaplain

[lostinwater]

4 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I know I am tearing this quote out of a conversation, but it raises a common objection to religion. There are so many beliefs about God/god/gods and the afterlife. Are they all pretty much right and meaningful? Is there even such a thing as ultimate truth? Are some right and others wrong? Is one right and all others wrong? Isn't it wiser just to discount it all, since none rises above the others?

Thank-you.  i don't really have an issue with religion any more than i have an issue with knives.  They are as good or as bad as the person who uses them.  Or perhaps as good and as bad as the person who uses them.  Both geniuses and fools, Saints and bigots , chefs and murderers, all make use of them. 

4 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Then I look at how this God would have me live. Sometimes it is hard, but it is so noble. Love my enemies? Respect my wife so much I do not even lust after other women. Share the good truths I learn with whoever I can. This is a God I want to follow. Forever.

That's beautiful.  That describes God in a way i completely agree with, also.  And while we may differ about other characteristics, i love when there is consensus - it brings people together.  Anyways, the last thing i want to come across as saying is that religion is unilaterally bad.  Most assuredly not.  Just saying that i am not going to accept the belief in God as a multiple choice test - like choose between God-Muslim, God-Catholic, God-Mormon, God-Bhuddism, Gods-Hinduism, or atheism.  To be honest, i think that's more or less the formula for how most "atheists" begin to see themselves as such.  They are told that they must either believe in the God that can't decide if they want to bash the child's head against the rocks, or bless them, or no God at all.  A God who wipes people's memories, tests them based on the information that was wiped, and then assigns them their spot in the eternities based on how much of that they were able to recall, as the spiritual equivalent of an infant, whose lifespan in the eternal realm was the equivalent of a blink of an eye, or no God at all.

And i'm not saying that anyone here even tries to make anyone make a choice like that - or that this faith tells people things like that.  i really don't think that happens here.  i don't think that was what your post was saying either - just want to say that specifically.  On the whole, everyone here is remarkably accepting of alternative viewpoints, where they can be - and are in no way obligated to even make the attempt.  And for the record, i have feelings as to which viewpoints are right - but i'll be the first one to admit that my beliefs are almost guaranteed to be lacking in big ways.  i hope that God is such that after i die, we can just laugh about how wrong i got a bunch of it, and then move along.  Alternatively, i might burn in hell, or suffer in some dingy darker version of heaven for all eternity.  But if that's the case, i likely would have just screwed up again in the next life anyways, and eventually would wind up in hell in the long run.  And when one is talking about eternity - what's the effect of a few trillion years of lucky guessing going to matter, either way.

For me, i guess i keep coming back to the common core of almost all the recognized religions.  Kindness, love towards one's enemies, respect, etc.,  Your statement describe that in such a wonderful way.  Maybe the decoration of that common core with all the things that differentiate the various sects - and allow them to exist as individual entities, as organized forces for a mix of bad and good - but mostly good for most people -  is just the price of delivery of the common core - like the price one pays to operate and exist in the world.  And if that is true, then people like me would do well to show a bit more compassion and appreciation.  

Regardless, i guess to a degree, one just has to place their bets for eternity as best they can based on the cards they were dealt, and let the chips fall as they may. 

[DennisTate]

A courageous Christian Visionary was given a dream that indicates that most of us Christians are far too adversarial toward each other.... and especially toward Latter day Saints.  

 

http://64.71.77.248/fq-protestant/tfq-en.html

 

Quote

 

The Evil Army

 

I saw a demonic army so large that it stretched as far as I could see. It was separated into divisions, with each carrying a different banner. The foremost and most powerful divisions were Pride, Self righteousness, Respectability, Selfish Ambition, and Unrighteous Judgment, but the largest of all was Jealousy. The leader of this vast army was the Accuser of the Brethren himself. I knew that there were many more evil divisions beyond my scope of vision, but these were the vanguard of this terrible horde from hell that was now being released against the church.

The weapons carried by this horde had names on them: the swords were named Intimidation; the spears were named Treachery; and their arrows were named Accusations, Gossip, Slander and Faultfinding. Scouts and smaller companies of demons with such names as Rejection, Bitterness, Impatience, Un-forgiveness and Lust were sent in advance of this army to prepare for the main attack. I knew in my heart that the church had never faced anything like this before.

The main assignment of this army was to cause division. It was sent to attack every level of relationship-churches with each other, congregations with their pastors, husbands and wives, children and parents, and even children with each other. The scouts were sent to locate the openings in churches, families or individuals that rejection, bitterness, lust, etc., could exploit and make a larger breech for the divisions that were coming.

The most shocking part of this vision was that this horde was not riding on horses, but on Christians! Most of them were well-dressed, respectable, and had the appearance of being refined and educated. These were Christians who had opened themselves to the powers of darkness to such a degree that the enemy could use them and they would think that they were being used by God. The Accuser knows that a house divided cannot stand, and this army represented his ultimate attempt to bring such complete division to the church that she would completely fall from grace.

The Prisoners