Men as Providers

[anatess2]

12 minutes ago, boxer said:

Right dude, you under-estimate your own IQ. It absolutely requires high intellect.

Average IQ is like 80.  That is the average.  People who graduate with a bachelor's degree's average IQ is around 100, master's degree 110+, PhD over 120.

You really underestimate what it takes to get an MD/JD, etc.  You are actually really intelligent.

That is not the issue.  The issue is you underestimate the intelligence of Women.  And that's what TRUE Feminism is supposed to do.  To fight sexists like you.

[boxer]

5 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

If you think I'm using emotion over logic you would be... wrong.  Coder, remember?

Like I said... stop smoking out of your butt.  You want to be an Engineer?  You better be able to support your statements.

My main source of this info is Jordan B. Peterson's lecture series.  I'm not gonna bore you with linking the 2 hour video on this thread.  But I'll go ahead and cut-and-paste the relevant Wikipedia entry just because I'm feeling generous.

Analyses of males' and females' grades revealed that, on average, women who had dropped out of engineering programs were either approximately as qualified or even more qualified than their male peers who continued their studies. Additionally, surveyed female dropouts revealed that very few (approximately 9.8% to 11.5%) actually dropped out because they viewed the work as too difficult.[17][21] Among their primary reasons for dropping were: loss of interest in the field, the inability to see themselves as professional engineers, inappropriate behavior from male peers, and the highly pressured environment professional engineers worked under. .[23]

[17] Seymour, Elaine. "The Loss of Women from Science, Mathematics, and Engineering Undergraduate Majors: An Explanatory Account." Science Education 79.4 (1995)
[21] Seymour, Elaine. "The Role of Socialization in Shaping the Career-Related Choices of Undergraduate Women in Science, Mathematics, and Engineering Majors." Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 869 (1999): 118-26.
[23] Cuny, Janice, and William Aspray. "Recruitment and Retention of Women Graduate Students in Computer Science and Engineering." ACM SIGCSE Bulletin 34.2 (2002): 168.

 

There you go with an insult again.  What does "dropping out" have to do with anything?  I never said woman engineers were less intelligent than male engineers . . .sigh. pointless.

[boxer]

11 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

That is not the issue.  The issue is you underestimate the intelligence of Women.  And that's what TRUE Feminism is supposed to do.  To fight sexists like you.

Actually, I got the statistics on intelligence from Jordan Peterson.

More male geniuses than female geniuses-FACT.

More male dunces than female dunces-FACT.

How am I being "sexist"?

More insults.  You can't argue without hurling an insult.

I'm just curious why it is that you are personalizing my comments.  You are taking my comments about facts and making them apply to you-which I have not done.

(sidenote: this is actually a typical male/female thing . . .which is why the only female I actually like "arguing" with is my wife, b/c she understand me and I understand her . . .after years of this exact same crap).

And with that, I am bowing out.  I'm realizing the futility of having meaningful arguments with the opposite sex on the internet .  . . the whole male/female thing-yeah it's real. 

Good luck-you win.

Edited December 12, 2018 by boxer

[anatess2]

11 minutes ago, boxer said:

There you go with an insult again.  What does "dropping out" have to do with anything?  I never said woman engineers were less intelligent than male engineers . . .sigh. pointless.

Everything.

I told you, intelligence is not the reason for the disparity between the abundance of male engineers to female engineers.  The drop-out rate in Engineering School (where Engineers are made) proves it.  You disagreed.  You are wrong.

Edited December 12, 2018 by anatess2

[anatess2]

1 minute ago, boxer said:

Actually, I got the statistics on intelligence from Jordan Peterson.

More insults.  You can't argue without hurling an insult.

Calling it as it is and hurling it right back at you.  You started the insult with "you're just a coder, you don't know engineering" drivel.  

Edited December 12, 2018 by anatess2

[anatess2]

8 minutes ago, boxer said:

Actually, I got the statistics on intelligence from Jordan Peterson.

More male geniuses than female geniuses-FACT.

More male dunces than female dunces-FACT.

How am I being "sexist"?

More insults.  You can't argue without hurling an insult.

Having more male geniuses than female geniuses IS NOT THE REASON YOU HAVE GENDER DISPARITY IN ENGINEERING, MEDICINE, AND LAW.  Insisting that it is after evidence is shown to the contrary is sexist!

I can argue without hurling an insult.  But you insult my intelligence ("you don't know engineering", "I don't care about your pedigree"), it's a free for all, open season.

Edited December 12, 2018 by anatess2

[mikbone]

23 minutes ago, boxer said:

Right dude, you under-estimate your own IQ. It absolutely requires high intellect.

Average IQ is like 80.  That is the average.  People who graduate with a bachelor's degree's average IQ is around 100, master's degree 110+, PhD over 120.

You really underestimate what it takes to get an MD/JD, etc.  You are actually really intelligent.

Hard work absolutely cannot make-up for sub-optimal intelligence.  Hard work can overcome some difference, if you take a hardworker with some intelligence and a lazy person with more intelligence, but when the average IQ is 80, no amount of hard work from a person who has an IQ of 80 is ever going to compete with someone of 110+ IQ.  Just not gonna happen.

And you really don't know how smart and blessed you are b/c of your intellect until you've dealt with the average.  And most people who are MDs, engineers, etc. b/c of the circles they run in do not interact with people who are much lower than them on the IQ scale.

Instead of looking down on those less fortunate b/c they didn't work as hard or whatever, maybe realize they are absolutely doing the best they can with the gifts God gave them.

/sigh

First do some basic research.  Average IQ is 100.  One standard deviation is +\- 15

I value my work ethic and wisdom over my raw brain power.  And I’d rather hang out with my 6 year old than a bunch of neurosurgeons on their 3rd or 4th wife with their irritating self righteous banter...

[anatess2]

15 minutes ago, mikbone said:

/sigh

First do some basic research.  Average IQ is 100.  One standard deviation is +\- 15

I value my work ethic and wisdom over my raw brain power.  And I’d rather hang out with my 6 year old than a bunch of neurosurgeons on their 3rd or 4th wife with their irritating self righteous banter...

Average IQ in Engineering is 125 (varies between engineering fields but it's around that number).

Female Average is 101 +/-13.  Male Average is 103 +/-14 in First World nations.  Not that very significant difference when you're needing 125 IQ.

Genius IQ is 145 or so they say.  The higher the IQ requirement goes, the more dominant males become.  Engineering, Law, and Medicine IQ averages are not that high.  Theoretics, on the other hand, are where the geniuses conglomerate.

Medicine is where the God-complex is.  It's not just because they're smart.  It's more so because they can literally have the power over life or death.  Law have a bunch of crooks because they have the power to bend legalities.  Engineers find the most complicated way to do a very simple thing - like providing astronauts with a writing tool by designing a ballpoint pen that works without gravity when a pencil meets the requirements.

Edited December 12, 2018 by anatess2

[mikbone]

https://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d7506

Orthopaedic surgeons: as strong as an ox and almost twice as clever? Multicentre prospective comparative study

Edited December 12, 2018 by mikbone

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

I value my work ethic and wisdom over my raw brain power.  

Yup. 

Ever notice that the only place people brag about having "high IQs" (or even talk about it really) is the internet? 

Besides, getting along with people and working hard is vastly more important to success and happiness than IQ. 

[zil]

9 minutes ago, mikbone said:

https://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d7506

Orthopaedic surgeons: as strong as an ox and almost twice as cleaver? Multicentre prospective comparative study

There. Fixed that for them.

[mikbone]

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/01/what-a-game-of-chess-can-tell-us-about-the-gender-gap

What a game of chess can tell us about the gender gap

 

 

 

[The Folk Prophet]

11 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Women don't "contrive a device".  They call men.

Hahahahah!

[The Folk Prophet]

11 hours ago, MormonGator said:

What if a man is more comfortable raising children/counseling people at funerals than he is at roofing, fixing cars, etc? Is he just forced to do things he doesn't like/isn't comfortable at?

Yes.

And he should grow up while he's at it.

11 hours ago, MormonGator said:

even if you aren't comfortable.

Because "comfortable" is the key to salvation?

[The Folk Prophet]

7 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

I can't compete with that.....

therefore I conclude that I am actually a woman.

Statistically speaking.

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, boxer said:

Women use emotion to think, men use logic.

Why does it strike me that this was said emotionally instead of logically?

In fact, I really have to wonder what kind of logic it requires to actually voice this sort of thing in today's world.

How, exactly, did you expect a statement of this nature to go over?

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, boxer said:

Whatever, use emotion, call me silly.  I deal in facts, logic, reason, not name-calling and emotional logic.

He said passionately.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, boxer said:

How am I being "sexist"?

Um...

1 hour ago, boxer said:

I'm realizing the futility of having meaningful arguments with the opposite sex on the internet .  . . the whole male/female thing-yeah it's real. 

 

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

 The higher the IQ requirement goes, the more dominant males become.  

I'm going to say this without knowing a thing about it, having never studied the matter, but I would bet dollars to donuts that there are some serious flaws/problems with the methods whereby either they determine "IQ" or gather said data in whatever study(s).

Dollars to donuts.

Edited December 12, 2018 by The Folk Prophet

[The Folk Prophet]

36 minutes ago, mikbone said:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/01/what-a-game-of-chess-can-tell-us-about-the-gender-gap

What a game of chess can tell us about the gender gap

 

 

 

So interesting.

[Just_A_Guy]

8 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

I can't compete with that.....

therefore I conclude that I am actually a woman.

It’s all the girls in your house, MoE—it gooses your own internal estrogen levels.  (Pretty sure there’s actual science backing this up.  And of course, I can also claim the authority of having four daughters myself.)

What you need to do is talk to your wife about producing a couple of strapping young lads, to bring some balance back to the force.  

[zil]

17 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

donuts

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Law have a bunch of crooks because they have the power to bend legalities. 

I represent that.     

Speaking anecdotally: 

1) “Logic” is a skill distressingly lacking in a distressing number of my colleagues’ professional activities.  Yeah, there are some sharp cookies; but a lot of lawyers are dumb as rocks when it comes to academic/reasoning technique, interpersonal skills, plain old common sense, or all three.  (Though in fairness, I suppose there are those who may well say the same about me.)  There was an old saw in law school about how the “A” students become professors, the “B” students become judges, and the “C” students become millionaires. 

2)  I went to my 20-year high school reunion this summer.  The number of utter morons amongst my classmates who wound up going into medicine, makes me terrified to ever set foot in another hospital.  

Edited December 12, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[Vort]

37 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

3 hours ago, boxer said:

Women use emotion to think, men use logic.

Why does it strike me that this was said emotionally instead of logically?

In fact, I really have to wonder what kind of logic it requires to actually voice this sort of thing in today's world.

How, exactly, did you expect a statement of this nature to go over?

Moreover, what exactly does it mean to "use emotion to think"?

[Guest Godless]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Having more male geniuses than female geniuses IS NOT THE REASON YOU HAVE GENDER DISPARITY IN ENGINEERING, MEDICINE, AND LAW.  Insisting that it is after evidence is shown to the contrary is sexist!

I can argue without hurling an insult.  But you insult my intelligence ("you don't know engineering", "I don't care about your pedigree"), it's a free for all, open season.