Warning in my Patriarchal Blessing


clbent04
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11 hours ago, boxer said:

People think having money solves problems . . .it may solve some problems. . .but not many.  There is a reason why one of the worst things that can actually happen to someone is to win the lottery.

Agree. Money can buy happiness, but only briefly. After it sinks in and you adapt to your new lifestyle, you have the same problems you did before when you were broke. Having money gives you the ability to not worry about money, but you'll still be worried about many other things.  

When you win the lottery, it can cause mega problems because you are suddenly a target to everyone you might have crossed/angered in your life. They'll come out of nowhere demanding some of your winnings. 

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2 hours ago, mirkwood said:

My experience has been in the testimony building category of hearing things come from the mouths of worthy priesthood holders who couldn't of themselves know what I needed to hear.

The power of the Priesthood has been monumental in my life.  Through it, I discovered the truthfulness of the gospel. Priesthood blessings opened up eyes to the power of God entrusted to men here on earth. And it really is a live, active, powerful, Heavenly force. I truly believe the worthy and most faithful Priesthood holders among us can move mountains if it is God's will. Honestly. I believe that 100 percent in my heart after experiencing the incredibly powerful Priesthood blessings of comfort I once received as a young man in need.

That said, before I had the testimony I do now of the Priesthood, as a 19-year old I was somewhat skeptic if the Stake Patriarch's words were inspired in regards to warning me to avoid materialism. But even then, I took that part of the blessing seriously. It just made me think is all considering how the events unfolded shortly before receiving that blessing.  

Few things I respect more in this life than a worthy, Melchizedek Priesthood holder. 

Edited by clbent04
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16 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Only people without money problems have the luxury of claiming money doesn't solve problems.

Money does solve problems, but most of the people I hear complaining about money problems on a regular basis, either have spending problems OR are more interested in someone else solving their money problems for them.

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4 minutes ago, person0 said:

Money does solve problems, but most of the people I hear complaining about money problems on a regular basis, either have spending problems OR are more interested in someone else solving their money problems for them.

A) "Problems" is a subjective idea.

B) What counts in your mind as someone else solving a money problem for someone else? I mean, putting the "win the lottery" idea aside, what else did you have in mind as someone else solving a money problem? We talking government?

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These scriptures below can be applied to wealth and riches:

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.  And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved  But Jesus beheld their thoughts, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but if they will forsake all things for my sake, with God whatsoever things I speak are possible.

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?  And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the resurrection when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."   -- Matthew 19:23 to 28 Inspired Version

I take these scriptures as a caution to avoid the love of money which is the root of evil.  The greatest trial in mortality in my opinion is wealth and ease.  How many times did the Nephites of old turn away from God because of their love of money and pride?  The wisdom of the writer below can be seen in these scriptures: 

"Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die;  Remove far from me vanity and lies; give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me; Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the Lord? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain."  -- Proverbs 30:7 to 9

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54 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

These scriptures below can be applied to wealth and riches:

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.  And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved  But Jesus beheld their thoughts, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but if they will forsake all things for my sake, with God whatsoever things I speak are possible.

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?  And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the resurrection when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."   -- Matthew 19:23 to 28 Inspired Version

I take these scriptures as a caution to avoid the love of money which is the root of evil.  The greatest trial in mortality in my opinion is wealth and ease.  How many times did the Nephites of old turn away from God because of their love of money and pride?  The wisdom of the writer below can be seen in these scriptures: 

"Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die;  Remove far from me vanity and lies; give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me; Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the Lord? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain."  -- Proverbs 30:7 to 9

Define "rich". For many people, it means "someone who has more than me, and I'm jealous". 

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1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

what else did you have in mind as someone else solving a money problem? We talking government?

Person X needs money in order to accomplish A objective.  Person X wants person Y and/or the government to provide him with money in order to 'fix'/'solve' the problem.  The real solution may be for person X to accept the fact that they should abandon A objective, or that they should make other adjustments to enable themselves to achieve it without someone else helping financially.

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2 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Only people without money problems have the luxury of claiming money doesn't solve problems.

Anyone in the US or pretty much any Western Civilization who complains about money is an ungrateful punk who has absolutely no clue what poverty or not having money really looks like.

Does anyone in the US use an outhouse?  Does anyone in the US NOT have running water?  Does anyone who is "poor" in the US not have a blasted smartphone so they can look at porn all day?

We as a culture and a society don't have flipping clue what poor really looks like.

Edited by boxer
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My pet peeve with a lot of religious people is their discrimination against "rich people" and painting them to be villains.

Materialism is not about how much money you make, how many cars you own, etc. etc.  You can be making less than minimum wage with 5 kids and still be materialistic.  You can own 3 Rolex watches and not be materialistic.

Money is simply a tool or a resource.  It is nothing more than that.  If your actions and your heart is on accumulating materials for the sake of accumulating materials, then you're materialistic.  If your actions and your heart is on accumulating materials as a resource for your life's work in the service of Christ's Kingdom, then you're not materialistic. 

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4 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I simply do not believe this.....

I, for one, believe that no one "earns" wealth.

Yeah it is a real thing-believe it or disbelieve it, it doesn't change the facts. 

A little thought experiment for you.  What happens when a child is given 100 christmas presents.  Do they respect the toys?  Do they take care of them? Most certainly not.  Why? b/c if they break 1 toy they have 99 others to play with! So the actual individual toy becomes less important.  Now what happens if a child is given 5 toys for Christmas. Each individual toy takes on more worth.  If you break 1 toy you only have 4 left.  1/100 <<<<< 1/5.  It's a simple economic calculation.  And any child who is old enough to think does this calculation subconsciously!

Now what happens to the child who spends his summers mowing his neighbors yard and at the end of the summer has 300 to buy a game console.   Does he not value his toy more b/c he recognizes how MUCH work went into earning it?  It costs him mowing yards and entire summer! That's a lot of hard work!  What happens if his parents just give him a gaming console?  The child will never understand the actual work that went into earning it.

If a child is raised properly he can begin to see that life isn't free and nothing comes for free-when someone gives him something he will remember how much work it took him to earn the gaming console and how much work it takes for someone else to give him the gift he is getting.

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22 minutes ago, boxer said:

Now what happens to the child who spends his summers mowing his neighbors yard and at the end of the summer has 300 to buy a game console.   Does he not value his toy more b/c he recognizes how MUCH work went into earning it?  It costs him mowing yards and entire summer! That's a lot of hard work!  What happens if his parents just give him a gaming console?  The child will never understand the actual work that went into earning it.

Not to interrupt your spirited debate with TFP but... I just want to point out the fallacy of this statement.  This is only true in families where children have no connection with their parents.  In Asian households, it is customary for parents to give their entire life's work to their children - work to the bone to get the children a fine education, nice things, nice clothes, and even the family business.  The children values it because IT IS THEIR PARENT'S LIFE'S WORK and they want to give honor to that sacrifice.  They do the same thing for their children - give their all to make the next generation just that little bit better than theirs.

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32 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

My pet peeve with a lot of religious people is their discrimination against "rich people" and painting them to be villains.

Materialism is not about how much money you make, how many cars you own, etc. etc.  You can be making less than minimum wage with 5 kids and still be materialistic.  You can own 3 Rolex watches and not be materialistic.

Money is simply a tool or a resource.  It is nothing more than that.  If your actions and your heart is on accumulating materials for the sake of accumulating materials, then you're materialistic.  If your actions and your heart is on accumulating materials as a resource for your life's work in the service of Christ's Kingdom, then you're not materialistic. 

I agree with the premise of your comment, but would have chosen a different example for folks who have means but aren’t materialistic.  

I’ve probably met 20-25 people who own 3 or more Rolex watches. I’m not sure I’d characterize any of them as not being materialistic, even those whose watches are knock-offs. 😀

But I could be wrong.

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5 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

I agree with the premise of your comment, but would have chosen a different example for folks who have means but aren’t materialistic.  

I’ve probably met 20-25 people who own 3 or more Rolex watches. I’m not sure I’d characterize any of them as not being materialistic, even those whose watches are knock-offs. 😀

But I could be wrong.

Yes, you're wrong.  My husband likes Tag Heuer and not Rolex's... he has 3 of them.  Nobody who knows my husband can conclude at anytime ever that he is materialistic.

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36 minutes ago, boxer said:

Yeah it is a real thing-believe it or disbelieve it, it doesn't change the facts. 

Well, if you say so...

39 minutes ago, boxer said:

Yeah it is a real thing-believe it or disbelieve it, it doesn't change the facts. 

A little thought experiment for you.  What happens when a child is given 100 christmas presents.  Do they respect the toys?  Do they take care of them? Most certainly not.  Why? b/c if they break 1 toy they have 99 others to play with! So the actual individual toy becomes less important.  Now what happens if a child is given 5 toys for Christmas. Each individual toy takes on more worth.  If you break 1 toy you only have 4 left.  1/100 <<<<< 1/5.  It's a simple economic calculation.  And any child who is old enough to think does this calculation subconsciously!

Now what happens to the child who spends his summers mowing his neighbors yard and at the end of the summer has 300 to buy a game console.   Does he not value his toy more b/c he recognizes how MUCH work went into earning it?  It costs him mowing yards and entire summer! That's a lot of hard work!  What happens if his parents just give him a gaming console?  The child will never understand the actual work that went into earning it.

If a child is raised properly he can begin to see that life isn't free and nothing comes for free-when someone gives him something he will remember how much work it took him to earn the gaming console and how much work it takes for someone else to give him the gift he is getting.

So, logically -- if someone is given all things...all power -- say...the very rocks would obey them...they're guaranteed to not appreciate things, be spoiled, de-value things and life and all, etc.?

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4 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Well, if you say so...

So, logically -- if someone is given all things...all power -- say...the very rocks would obey them...they're guaranteed to not appreciate things, be spoiled, de-value things and life and all, etc.?

So that's my problem.  I was wondering if I was taking too much for granted there. (sorry, probably an irreverent joke, this).

:beammeup:

VERY OFF TOPIC....

In truth though, in theory, anyone who has the Melchizedek Priesthood has that power, and anyone who has been a sealer technically has been given the keys and authority to do all sorts of things.  Of course it requires purpose, reason, and one must be doing it in accordance with the desires of the Lord (it must be lock and key with him I think in most of this world changing stuff) and at least a tiny bit of faith (at least that of a mustard seed which is).

Then...one should be able to move mountains...much less the very rocks.

I'm not sure how often Priesthood holders reflect on just how much power a Priesthood holder has been given and how much trust he has been entrusted with.

Edited by JohnsonJones
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4 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Well, if you say so...

So, logically -- if someone is given all things...all power -- say...the very rocks would obey them...they're guaranteed to not appreciate things, be spoiled, de-value things and life and all, etc.?

?? I must have triggered you.  I have no idea what you are trying to say here or that it has any relevance to the conversation at hand.

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1 hour ago, boxer said:

?? I must have triggered you.  I have no idea what you are trying to say here or that it has any relevance to the conversation at hand.

He's saying the exact same thing I was saying with Asian parents except, instead of using Asian parents as examples, he's using God.  So, just like saying Asian children don't appreciate what their parents give them (which is not true because Asian children desire to honor their parents), the children of God don't appreciate what God gives them (also not true because we desire to honor God).

In other words, whether a child values a game console his parents gave him or not is not because it was given to him more so than how much he honors his parents.

Edited by anatess2
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Guest MormonGator
2 hours ago, boxer said:

 I must have triggered you.

I love when people say "I must have triggered you" in an insulting way. 

First off, everyone has "triggers"- (yes, even you). Second, if I walk up to you, call your mother a ________, you get angry can I say " Ha ha I triggered you. Look at the snowflake"?. Or, maybe I can make tasteless jokes about your religion, watch you get angry, and make fun of you for having "triggered" you. Or, maybe I can say something insulting about your lack of hair, or a something you are really sensitive about, and then watch you angry. 

It's fun to poke at peoples sensitivity, especially online. Makes me feel good about my own problems. 
 

Edited by MormonGator
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1 hour ago, boxer said:

?? I must have triggered you.

Huh???

1 hour ago, boxer said:

I have no idea what you are trying to say here

Then how is it you presume I've been "triggered"?

1 hour ago, boxer said:

or that it has any relevance to the conversation at hand.

Let me walk you through it then.

You are saying if people are given stuff without effort it spoils them. If that is incorrect, feel free to clarify

So I considered this and presented, for your consideration, Christ, who had, at his finger tips, anything He desired. For naught but His will, the water turned to wine. Hardly "hard work" in the traditional sense. Christ, clearly, was not spoiled and worse off for the fact that He had anything He wanted.

As @JohnsonJones pointed out, we all have this same power for nothing but faith. Does that spoil and ruin us?

God gives us our immortal lives for free, and eternal salvation to all for nothing but humility and repentance. Not to mention the air we breathe, food, raiment, intelligence, skill, etc., etc. Are we spoiled in that? Does it ruin our souls that these gifts are freely given to all?

We do not work hard to earn our salvation. We work because we love God and He asks us to. He rewards us if we are faithful and repentant. We earn nothing, and the gift given is free.

I see no reason why or how teaching children this eternal principle translates to certain hurt for them.

I intend to teach my children to work hard because they love God, their fellow man, and themselves.

Of course there are and will be consequence for choice. That is part of it. But the idea that THIS-MUCH work equates to THIS-MUCH money is man-made, worldy, logically flawed, nonsense.

The hundred-billionaire doesn't work harder than the billionaire. Neither one "earned" their money. They got it because of intelligence, luck, hard-work, circumstance, who they knew, what they were born into, wisdom, any one of these, or a combination of a few.

Sure, hard work to pay for your own x-box is one way to teach an important principle. It is not the end all of it, by a long shot. And, sure, buying a kid the x-box for Christmas has the potential to spoil the kid, but this sort of thing doesn't exist in a bubble. How else does one interact with their child? Are there other means whereby the child is being taught important eternal principles? Many parenting theories consider reward for work a lesser choice because it's putting ulterior motivation on things that should be inherent to character. I feel the same. The eternal gospel is also based upon the same.

So there you go. You can claim you've got all the "facts" if you like. But my contemplation on the matter has led to a different perspective.

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10 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Sure, hard work to pay for your own x-box is one way to teach an important principle. It is not the end all of it, by a long shot. And, sure, buying a kid the x-box for Christmas has the potential to spoil the kid, but this sort of thing doesn't exist in a bubble. How else does one interact with their child? Are there other means whereby the child is being taught important eternal principles? Many parenting theories consider reward for work a lesser choice because it's putting ulterior motivation on things that should be inherent to character. I feel the same. The eternal gospel is also based upon the same.

Whoa!  You're an Asian parent!  Who knew?  ;)

 

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