Reaction to change

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

Ultimately, I suspect in six months we'll look back on this and think, "wow, that really wasn't as big a deal as we felt it was at the time." Kids will continue to mature and progress, and everyone will adjust.  It's just different. And sometimes different takes time to adjust to.

I guess I'm ahead of the curve.  I just don't see the big deal about this change.  I figure, just accept it and move on.

[Vort]

5 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

I'm sorry, I can't let this go.  I tried, because it really isn't any of my business, but I just can't.  Forgive me.

The first thing I would say to your son is that he isn't alone in how he feels. He thought he had almost an entire year to go before being ordained a priest, and now he's finding out "oh, we're going to ordain you next week."  Sudden changes are uncomfortable, and it's okay to be uncomfortable.  I'm hearing stories in my own ward and stake, as well as from various internet sources of children and youth who are feeling discomfort with this change.  I believe this discomfort is more prevalent in the youth with fourth quarter birthdays.  So again, it's normal, he's not alone, and he has every right to feel that way.

I'd also tell him it's okay to say no.  

Lastly, I commend you.  You said "If my son doesn't think he's ready." Despite any misgivings you might have about this change, it looks clear that whether or not he becomes a priest is based on how he feels and not on how you feel.  And I think that's the model we should follow in implementing this change.  Listen to what the youth want. 

Ultimately, I suspect in six months we'll look back on this and think, "wow, that really wasn't as big a deal as we felt it was at the time." Kids will continue to mature and progress, and everyone will adjust.  It's just different. And sometimes different takes time to adjust to.

My second son was preparing for his mission when the 18-year-old missionary policy was announced. He left at 18½. My third son didn't feel quite ready, so he went to BYU for a semester and ended up leaving for his mission a few months after turning 19. (And HE'S COMING HOME in 73 days! Not that we're counting.) For him, it was definitely the right decision.

 

I am truly sorry that social factors enter in so heavily at times into such matters. It shouldn't be that way. But as always, do what is right, let the consequence follow. If a young man (or his parent, or bishop) feels he should wait a bit, for whatever reason, for a Priesthood "advancement", so be it.

[MarginOfError]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

I guess I'm ahead of the curve.  I just don't see the big deal about this change.  I figure, just accept it and move on.

Well, it was a big deal to me...because I was the one that spent three hours making sure I had the lists right about who goes into what class, what interviews we need, and which callings are being vacated (we are losing half of our class and quorum presidents to these advancements).  Leader and Clerk resources hasn't caught up to this change yet, and I haven't heard anything about when it will.  

But for some people, it's a BIG deal for other reasons.  Especially where it creates a sudden separation from friends and such.  Next year won't be as bad, because everyone will know it was coming.  If this had been announced in October, I don't think we'd see as much frustration about it.  The sudden timing about is just jarring.

Sidenote: I am really looking forward to January 1st.  I have a feeling that the temple recommend system won't let us assign recommends to the 11-year-old youth.  I also suspect that the system will reject ordinations of the 11 year olds.  I'll be happy if neither of those are true, but unfortunately, our technology tends to lag behind our policies.  I'm not sure how we'll handle the temple recommend issue if we can't issue those.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

My second son was preparing for his mission when the 18-year-old missionary policy was announced. He left at 18½. My third son didn't feel quite ready, so he went to BYU for a semester and ended up leaving for his mission a few months after turning 19. (And HE'S COMING HOME in 73 days! Not that we're counting.) For him, it was definitely the right decision.

 

I am truly sorry that social factors enter in so heavily at times into such matters. It shouldn't be that way. But as always, do what is right, let the consequence follow. If a young man (or his parent, or bishop) feels he should wait a bit, for whatever reason, for a Priesthood "advancement", so be it.

 @Vort, is their a cut off date for missionaries? Let's say your third son went to BYU for two years. Can he still go on a mission at age 20? Just asking, nothing more. 

[MarginOfError]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

 @Vort, is their a cut off date for missionaries? Let's say your third son went to BYU for two years. Can he still go on a mission at age 20? Just asking, nothing more. 

I believe they can leave as late as age 26.  It might be 25.  I'm too lazy to look up the exact number.

[Vort]

Just now, MormonGator said:

 @Vort, is their a cut off date for missionaries? Let's say your third son went to BYU for two years. Can he still go on a mission at age 20? Just asking, nothing more. 

I think the cutoff age for men is 25 or 26. I don't believe there is a cutoff age for women; I've talked to several female RMs who have mentioned having a companion in her 30s or 40s. I'm sure someone on this list can give you an authoritative answer.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

I think the cutoff age for men is 25 or 26. I don't believe there is a cutoff age for women; I've talked to several female RMs who have mentioned having a companion in her 30s or 40s. I'm sure someone on this list can give you an authoritative answer.

 

1 minute ago, MarginOfError said:

I believe they can leave as late as age 26.  It might be 25.  I'm too lazy to look up the exact number.

Thanks. 

[MarginOfError]

31 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Yeah, we've talked about this.  But unfortunately, he is alone in our ward.  All his other friends don't care.  They think they're not going to be blessing the sacrament anyway because the Priests are not going anywhere and that's all they care about.  My son (actually both my sons) don't think this way.  They take these things very seriously.

It's my fault, I can admit.  We make these things such big deals in our house.  Like when they were baptized, we spent months preparing them for it and making sure they understand what they're going into and that they're ready to be baptized not just because they're turning 8 but because they are ready to make the covenants.  We talked about their testimony, etc.  We rented an oceanfront condo for a week and had a week-long celebration having their baptisms on the ocean on the first day.  Getting ordained were also big deals... months long preparation, celebration, etc. etc.  This time, we won't get that if he gets ordained according to the Bishop/Stake Pres schedule.  And I'm sure my feelings of unease is seeping through my talks with my son despite my best effort.

Oh...so you're helicopter parenting!    (waits to get drop kicked by @anatess2)

Seriously, take as long as you guys need.  And if your bishop or anyone else pressures you to go faster, you can tell them MOE said to shove it.

[anatess2]

18 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

Oh...so you're helicopter parenting!    (waits to get drop kicked by @anatess2)

Seriously, take as long as you guys need.  And if your bishop or anyone else pressures you to go faster, you can tell them MOE said to shove it.

I identify as an apache helicopter.  

But seriously... my husband thinks I'm a helicopter parent.  My sister thinks I neglect my children because I let them do whatever I let them do.

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

If this is true, then the Prophets would change the Young Men age up to 19 or down to 11, not do those who are unfortunate enough to be born from January to May a disservice.  You are being cruel when you don't intend to be.  You should realize this folly and stop propagating untruths to serve What You Want.

Hum, not sure where or what you are saying. Let me ask- have you been a Young Mens president or a counselor in the YM program for an extended period of time in the last 10 years?

[MarginOfError]

2 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Hum, not sure where or what you are saying. Let me ask- have you been a Young Mens president or a counselor in the YM program for an extended period of time in the last 10 years?

That is a ludicrous question, and no matter the answer, it has very little to do with the matter at hand.

[Rob Osborn]

5 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

That is a ludicrous question, and no matter the answer, it has very little to do with the matter at hand.

It has everything to do with it. Bear with me for a moment to see where I am going with this.

[MarginOfError]

Just now, Rob Osborn said:

It has everything to do with it. Bear with me for a moment to see where I am going with this.

No.  I will not.  If you think the answer to the question has any relevance at all, justify why it should matter that anyone have youth leadership experience in order to have a valid viewpoint on how this plays out for the youth.

[Rob Osborn]

5 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

No.  I will not.  If you think the answer to the question has any relevance at all, justify why it should matter that anyone have youth leadership experience in order to have a valid viewpoint on how this plays out for the youth.

Welll, its kind of the same as for the the relief society president to tell the YM president what the YM need and how to run the program.

[mikbone]

Joseph F. Smith served in Hawaii from age 15-19.  

His father Hyrum died when he was 5 and His mother died when he was 13. 

No doubt he was a special person and was foreordained for greatness.

But sometimes we might be protecting our children a bit too much...

[MarginOfError]

1 minute ago, Rob Osborn said:

Welll, its kind of the same as for the the relief society president to tell the YM president what the YM need and how to run the program.

Oh, spectacular.  You've missed the point of the Ward Council.  Since 2010, I can recall being instructed that the Relief Society President is a leader in the Ward, not just for the women.  She does have the authority to make recommendations and observations directly to the Young Men President, just like the Young Men President has authority to make recommendations and observations directly to the Relief Society President.  

So, yeah, your question was ludicrous and irrelevant.  Thanks for playing though.

[Rob Osborn]

5 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

Oh, spectacular.  You've missed the point of the Ward Council.  Since 2010, I can recall being instructed that the Relief Society President is a leader in the Ward, not just for the women.  She does have the authority to make recommendations and observations directly to the Young Men President, just like the Young Men President has authority to make recommendations and observations directly to the Relief Society President.  

So, yeah, your question was ludicrous and irrelevant.  Thanks for playing though.

Im not gonna discuss this any further with you, have a nice day.

[anatess2]

20 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Hum, not sure where or what you are saying. Let me ask- have you been a Young Mens president or a counselor in the YM program for an extended period of time in the last 10 years?

I'm a woman.  I'm a mother of 2 boys and my husband has been either Scoutmaster or in various YM Presidency positions since I've known him.

So no, you don't get to pull your... "You don't know anything about Young Men" card.

Besides, you don't need to know anything about Young Men to see not just the illogic but the ERROR of saying those who are born in January are less prepared than those born in December in this new YM Ordination policy change.

Edited December 17, 2018 by anatess2

[MarginOfError]

2 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Im not gonna discuss this any further with you, have a nice day.

That sounds like code for, "Oops, I just got owned."

[Rob Osborn]

7 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I'm a woman.  I'm a mother of 2 boys and my husband has been either Scoutmaster or in various YM Presidency positions since I've known him.

So no, you don't get to pull your... "You don't know anything about Young Men" card.

Besides, you don't need to know anything about Young Men to see not just the illogic but the ERROR of saying those who are born in January have the potential of being less prepared than those born in December in this new YM Ordination policy change.

Not sure if you are good at math but...every young man who enters priests will be in the priests quorum longer now regardless of when their birthday is. Everyone entering the priests quorum will enter when they are either 15 years old or 16 years old and a few days. Almost entirely though, they will now enter priests and stay a minimum of 2 and a half years instead of barely two. This means that in general they will spend more time as a organized quorum together and have a better opportinity to unify.

[zil]

Zil sees: "Reaction to change"

Zil thinks....

Husband's reaction to change (prior to marriage): toss it in a can and forget about it.

Zil's reaction to change on learning about n cans: that is not living in the same house as I do.

After all other ideas flop, Zil and future husband drive to Reno.  On the way, Zil sorts through n cans of coin, pulling out things that are not coin.  Future husband locates casino that will take pennies.  Coins transferred into casino buckets and carried in where they're dumped into counting machines.  After numerous trips between car and cage, Zil and future husband drive away from Reno with nearly $2000 in bills.

Husband's reaction to change (after marriage): hand it over to Zil at the end of the day so it doesn't accumulate.

[We now return you to your regular program...]

[Midwest LDS]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

 @Vort, is their a cut off date for missionaries? Let's say your third son went to BYU for two years. Can he still go on a mission at age 20? Just asking, nothing more. 

@Vort was correct the cutoff is 26 for men. On my mission my companion told me about his brother, who turned 26 in the MTC. He slid in right under the wire. Sisters don't have a specific age cutoff, although if they are over 40 they typically are assigned to a non proselytizing mission.

[zil]

1 minute ago, Rob Osborn said:

Not sure if you are good at math but...every young man who enters priests will be in the priests quorum longer now regardless of when their birthday is.

Except the ones born on 01 January.  Bwa ha ha ha ha!

[anatess2]

9 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Not sure if you are good at math but...every young man who enters priests will be in the priests quorum longer now regardless of when their birthday is. Everyone entering the priests quorum will enter when they are either 15 years old or 16 years old and a few days. Almost entirely though, they will now enter priests and stay a minimum of 2 and a half years instead of barely two. This means that in general they will spend more time as a organized quorum together and have a better opportinity to unify.

I am very good at math.  

Taking the policy to its extreme examples:

Those born on January 1 will be Priests for 2 years.

Those born in December 31 will be Priests for 3 years.

That's one year difference.

Unification is not where your error is.  Your error is in the claim that staying longer in the Priest quorum makes you a better missionary implying that those born on December 31 will be better prepared for a mission than those who are born on January 1.

[Rob Osborn]

5 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I am very good at math.  

Taking the policy to its extreme examples:

Those born on January 1 will be Priests for 2 years.

Those born in December 31 will be Priests for 3 years.

That's one year difference.

Unification is not where your error is.  Your error is in the claim that staying longer in the Priest quorum makes you a better missionary implying that those born on December 31 will be better prepared for a mission than those who are born on January 1.

And this is where experience on the frontlines makes all the difference.  I have been in the quorum every week and over the years have noticed the general dropoff in activity during their time as priests. Its a literal fact. If they are going to fall away it will be most likely be in their time as a priest versus teacher or deacon. In our stake alone, only one in ten are going on to serve missions. There are many factors and whereas it isnt my main goal to send them all on jissions, it is my goal to strengthen each one and help them become converted disciples of Christ. Without unity in the quorum it just doesnt happen. I have seen it over and over again. With changes to quorum being on Jan 1 it allows the training and placement of new quorum presedencies to be more regular and allow more members of the quorum to serve in a leadership role. All these factors build the unity the priests desperatley need. They will still all leave priests at the same time but all of them will be in an organized quorum for longer than before. The Lord works in simple yet marvelous ways. There is nothing negative this does, only positive to strengthen the youth and better prepare them for the world. Overall, young men from start to finish will be in organized quorums longer and move together in groups from quorum to quorum strengthening quorums even more.