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There seems to be a common misconception about what exaltation really is, among some members of the church. While discussing this topic in a Facebook LDS group, it is thought that anyone in the celestial kingdom will be exalted. I tried to explain that that is not the case. Exaltation is reserved only for those who enter into the everlasting covenant of celestial marriage which is the highest level in the celestial kingdom. So, she was a little upset because she didn't think that was fair. She is a single lady and has done everything in her power to live the standards and has kept all of her covenants in the temple and feels she is "married" to the Lord (she hasn't found someone to marry in the temple). I made the attempt to explain that she need no worry because the lord will make sure she has a chance to be sealed to a worthy priesthood holder either in this life or the next. 

Of course, exaltation and eternal life s a broad and vast subject but the gist of it is the union of two celestial law abiding individuals who are one with God. What is your take on this?

 

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5 hours ago, Xavier said:

There seems to be a common misconception about what exaltation really is, among some members of the church. While discussing this topic in a Facebook LDS group, it is thought that anyone in the celestial kingdom will be exalted. I tried to explain that that is not the case. Exaltation is reserved only for those who enter into the everlasting covenant of celestial marriage which is the highest level in the celestial kingdom. So, she was a little upset because she didn't think that was fair. She is a single lady and has done everything in her power to live the standards and has kept all of her covenants in the temple and feels she is "married" to the Lord (she hasn't found someone to marry in the temple). I made the attempt to explain that she need no worry because the lord will make sure she has a chance to be sealed to a worthy priesthood holder either in this life or the next. 

Of course, exaltation and eternal life s a broad and vast subject but the gist of it is the union of two celestial law abiding individuals who are one with God. What is your take on this?

No time to look up quotes.  But there has been a double standard declared about this.  Men are expected to marry in the temple.  But it is understood that some women will not be able to find a worthy spouse.  So, they will have some leeway on the matter.  What I understood was that there is currently a slightly higher number of worthy women in the Church than worthy men, and it is usually this way, and has been throughout history.

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8 hours ago, Xavier said:

There seems to be a common misconception about what exaltation really is, among some members of the church. While discussing this topic in a Facebook LDS group, it is thought that anyone in the celestial kingdom will be exalted. I tried to explain that that is not the case. Exaltation is reserved only for those who enter into the everlasting covenant of celestial marriage which is the highest level in the celestial kingdom. So, she was a little upset because she didn't think that was fair. She is a single lady and has done everything in her power to live the standards and has kept all of her covenants in the temple and feels she is "married" to the Lord (she hasn't found someone to marry in the temple). I made the attempt to explain that she need no worry because the lord will make sure she has a chance to be sealed to a worthy priesthood holder either in this life or the next. 

Of course, exaltation and eternal life s a broad and vast subject but the gist of it is the union of two celestial law abiding individuals who are one with God. What is your take on this?

You are correct, at least according to what you specified here (as I do not have knowledge of how the discussion went and points made).

1) We are informed that no worthy person will be denied any eternal blessing that they did not have the chance upon earth. A single woman who has lived up to her covenants made in the temple will have the opportunity in the next life. Somehow this will all be worked out by a loving Heavenly Father.

2) At least according to the prophets and knowledge we have now, there are three degrees in the Celestial kingdom. Only those who reach the highest level are exalted and become like Gods.

Exaltation I do not believe is broad. I believe exaltation is pretty clear. It is to become one with the Father and to receive all the Father hath through His Son. This can not be accomplished without a spouse. Neither is man without the woman, nor woman without the man. Truly overcoming second death.

Eternal life on the other hand can and has been used in multiple ways:

1) Eternal life is given to all those who received a body and will be resurrected. Even those in the Telestial kingdom have been saved (salvation) to a degree of glory. This is their eternal life, without eternal lives (same for Terrestrial kingdom). This appears to be using eternal life as a way of saying "immortality."

2) Eternal life is the greatest of all the gifts of God (Doctrine and Covenants 14:7) which is synonymous with exaltation. The greatest of all the gifts of God is exaltation.

I am drawing a blank, but I am thinking I have read eternal life read one other way, and I am drawing a blank.

Edited by Anddenex

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8 hours ago, Xavier said:

There seems to be a common misconception about what exaltation really is, among some members of the church. While discussing this topic in a Facebook LDS group, it is thought that anyone in the celestial kingdom will be exalted. I tried to explain that that is not the case. Exaltation is reserved only for those who enter into the everlasting covenant of celestial marriage which is the highest level in the celestial kingdom. So, she was a little upset because she didn't think that was fair. She is a single lady and has done everything in her power to live the standards and has kept all of her covenants in the temple and feels she is "married" to the Lord (she hasn't found someone to marry in the temple). I made the attempt to explain that she need no worry because the lord will make sure she has a chance to be sealed to a worthy priesthood holder either in this life or the next. 

Of course, exaltation and eternal life s a broad and vast subject but the gist of it is the union of two celestial law abiding individuals who are one with God. What is your take on this?

Exaltation is for those who have been sealed up through covenant and validated by the Holy Spirit of Promise as families: spouses to each other (marriage) and children to them (BIC or covenant), back to Adam. We are saved as individuals and exalted as families (one large family of God): https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2008/04/salvation-and-exaltation?lang=eng

" In God’s eternal plan, salvation is an individual matter; exaltation is a family matter."

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33 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

You are correct, at least according to what you specified here (as I do not have knowledge of how the discussion went and points made).

1) We are informed that no worthy person will be denied any eternal blessing that they did not have the chance upon earth. A single woman who has lived up to her covenants made in the temple will have the opportunity in the next life. Somehow this will all be worked out by a loving Heavenly Father.

2) At least according to the prophets and knowledge we have now, there are three degrees in the Celestial kingdom. Only those who reach the highest level are exalted and become like Gods.

Exaltation I do not believe is broad. I believe exaltation is pretty clear. It is to become one with the Father and to receive all the Father hath through His Son. This can not be accomplished without a spouse. Neither is man without the woman, nor woman without the man. Truly overcoming second death.

Eternal life on the other hand can and has been used in multiple ways:

1) Eternal life is given to all those who received a body and will be resurrected. Even those in the Telestial kingdom have been saved (salvation) to a degree of glory. This is their eternal life, without eternal lives (same for Terrestrial kingdom). This appears to be using eternal life as a way of saying "immortality."

2) Eternal life is the greatest of all the gifts of God (Doctrine and Covenants 14:7) which is synonymous with exaltation. The greatest of all the gifts of God is exaltation.

I am drawing a blank, but I am thinking I have read eternal life read one other way, and I am drawing a blank.

Everyone will receive one of two outcomes- eternal life or eternal death. Eternal life is synonymous with salvation. Eternal death only comes upon the son's of perdition for they are the only ones who partake of the second death which is an eternal death.

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20 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Everyone will receive one of two outcomes- eternal life or eternal death. Eternal life is synonymous with salvation. Eternal death only comes upon the son's of perdition for they are the only ones who partake of the second death which is an eternal death.

This is one point of interpretation we disagree upon. Eternal life though has been used synonymous with salvation as I mentioned in #1.

As to the second death, those in the Telestial and Terrestrial state also experience the second death as they are no longer in the presence of the Father, they are not exalted. All who are not exalted experience to some degree a second death, not just he sons of perdition.

Edited by Anddenex

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8 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

This is one point of interpretation we disagree upon. Eternal life though has been used synonymous with salvation as I mentioned in #1.

As to the second death, those in the Telestial and Terrestrial state also experience the second death as they are no longer in the presence of the Father, they are not exalted. All who are not exalted experience to some degree a second death, not just he sons of perdition.

Only the son's of perdition partake of the second death, all the rest are saved from the second death and go into eternal life.

There isn't any scripture reference stating what you propose.

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4 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Only the son's of perdition partake of the second death, all the rest are saved from the second death and go into eternal life.

There isn't any scripture reference stating what you propose.

I understand Rob this is your personal interpretation of scripture, and words from the prophets.

Second death is being removed from the presence of the Father. Only those in the Celestial kingdom overcome the second death. Just read Doctrine and Covenants 76. This is enough for me to recognize what you provide is incorrect.

We disagree.

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Just now, Anddenex said:

I understand Rob this is your personal interpretation of scripture, and words from the prophets.

Second death is being removed from the presence of the Father. Only those in the Celestial kingdom overcome the second death. Just read Doctrine and Covenants 76. This is enough for me to recognize what you provide is incorrect.

We disagree.

 

16 Yea, behold, this death bringeth to pass the resurrection, and redeemeth all mankind from the first death—that spiritual death; for all mankind, by the fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual.
            17 But behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth mankind, yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord.
            18 Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance, that whosoever repenteth the same is not hewn down and cast into the fire; but whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire; and there cometh upon them again a spiritual death, yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness. (Hel. 14:16-18)

32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
            33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
            34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
            35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.
            36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
            37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power.

The scriptures testify that only the son's of perdition partake of the second death.

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1 minute ago, Rob Osborn said:

 

16 Yea, behold, this death bringeth to pass the resurrection, and redeemeth all mankind from the first death—that spiritual death; for all mankind, by the fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual.
            17 But behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth mankind, yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord.
            18 Yea, and it bringeth to pass the condition of repentance, that whosoever repenteth the same is not hewn down and cast into the fire; but whosoever repenteth not is hewn down and cast into the fire; and there cometh upon them again a spiritual death, yea, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness. (Hel. 14:16-18)

32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
            33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
            34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
            35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.
            36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
            37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power.

The scriptures testify that only the son's of perdition partake of the second death.

I understand this is your personal interpretation Rob of the scriptures. We have agreement that the sons of perdition will receive a second death.

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3 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

I understand this is your personal interpretation Rob of the scriptures. We have agreement that the sons of perdition will receive a second death.

I mean, if you could offer up a scripture or two, otherwise it's your word against the scriptures and who are we to believe?

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11 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

I mean, if you could offer up a scripture or two, otherwise it's your word against the scriptures and who are we to believe?

I believe I offered the whole section of Doctrine and Covenants 76 (you can also read 131). Well, in fairness, its your interpretation of the scriptures provided that is in discussion, not the scriptures. ;)

But we can read other things:

1) Second death is spiritual death. Spiritual death is a separation from God (source) Who are separated from God? There are are three states (two glories) which are separated from the Father: sons of perdition, those in the Telestial kingdom, and those in the Terrestrial kingdom.

2) "Further spiritual death comes as a result of our own disobedience. Our sins make us unclean and unable to dwell in the presence of God (see Romans 3:23; Alma 12:12–16, 32; Helaman 14:18; Moses 6:57). Through the Atonement, Jesus Christ offers redemption from this spiritual death, but only when we exercise faith in Him, repent of our sins, and obey the principles and ordinances of the gospel" (see Alma 13:27–30; Helaman 14:19; Articles of Faith 1:3). (Source)

Again, who is unclean to dwell in the presence of God -- particularly God the Father? Again: the sons of perdition, those who dwell in the Telestial kingdom, and those in the Terrestrial kingdom.

If you only want to review the passages of scripture you quote, while ignoring others, then I find your response at odds with a little irony, "otherwise it's your word against the [all] the scriptures and who are we to believe?"

I know where I stand Rob.

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1 minute ago, Anddenex said:

I believe I offered the whole section of Doctrine and Covenants 76 (you can also read 131). Well, in fairness, its your interpretation of the scriptures provided that is in discussion, not the scriptures. ;)

But we can read other things:

1) Second death is spiritual death. Spiritual death is a separation from God (source) Who are separated from God? There are are three states (two glories) which are separated from the Father: sons of perdition, those in the Telestial kingdom, and those in the Terrestrial kingdom.

2) "Further spiritual death comes as a result of our own disobedience. Our sins make us unclean and unable to dwell in the presence of God (see Romans 3:23; Alma 12:12–16, 32; Helaman 14:18; Moses 6:57). Through the Atonement, Jesus Christ offers redemption from this spiritual death, but only when we exercise faith in Him, repent of our sins, and obey the principles and ordinances of the gospel" (see Alma 13:27–30; Helaman 14:19; Articles of Faith 1:3). (Source)

Again, who is unclean to dwell in the presence of God -- particularly God the Father? Again: the sons of perdition, those who dwell in the Telestial kingdom, and those in the Terrestrial kingdom.

If you only want to review the passages of scripture you quote, while ignoring others, then I find your response at odds with a little irony, "otherwise it's your word against the [all] the scriptures and who are we to believe?"

I know where I stand Rob.

So, you aren't going to cite any scripture eh? I only debate this because it's a false doctrine.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

So, you aren't going to cite any scripture eh? I only debate this because it's a false doctrine.

Anddenex scratches head and :rolleyes:

Please take a moment to see how many scriptures were cited and provided for you to read. 😮

Here is another one from our beloved Prophet now, spoken as an apostle:

 

Quote

 

Eternal Life

After judgment comes the possibility of eternal life—the kind of life that our Heavenly Father lives. His celestial realm has been compared with the glory of the sun. (See 1 Cor. 15:41; D&C 76:96.) It is available to all who prepare for it, the requirements of which have been clearly revealed: “Ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.” (2 Ne. 31:20; see also John 17:3.)

 

There is only one kingdom that lives as Heavenly Father lives. If you continue to think it is false doctrine, not much I can help with there. Have a wonderful day Rob!

Edited by Anddenex

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10 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Anddenex scratches head and :rolleyes:

Please take a moment to see how many scriptures were cited and provided for you to read. 😮

Here is another one from our beloved Prophet now, spoken as an apostle:

 

There is only one kingdom that lives as Heavenly Father lives. If you continue to think it is false doctrine, not much I can help with there. Have a wonderful day Rob!

But all of the scriptures cited support how I'm defining it.

Eternal life is given to all of those saved from perdition. That, the scriptures are very clear on.

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Exhalation will only be the reward for the faithful who enter into all of the necessary covenants. Latter-day revelation confirms that the new and everlasting covenant of marriage is required to enter into the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. The marriage covenant and sealing is necessary, and if a woman has lived her entire life in a manner that is consistent with the commandments and other temple covenants, I believe provision will be made for her to be sealed to a husband in the life to come. Men can be sealed to more than one woman, and I see no reason why our Father in heaven would deny one of his daughters exhalation simply because no man asked her to marry him in this life.

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43 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I think common misconception might (emphasized "might") be that one can enter the Celestial Kingdom without being exalted.

That is a good thought, although exaltation is to live as the Father lives, and if there are three degrees within this kingdom, the bottom two do not live as the Father lives. So, me personally, I hesitate to say they are -- at this moment.

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Exaltation in LDS doctrine means the highest state of happiness and glory within the Celestial kingdom.

Eternal life in LDS doctrine means to be resurrected and spiritually alive and live in Gods presence eternally as families. All of those saved from hell receive eternal life.

Salvation in LDS doctrine means to be saved from physical and spiritual death.

As one can clearly see, salvation and eternal life are synonymous. Exaltation is a status elevated above salvation/eternal life. This is why things get confusing. People tend to think all three terms mean the same thing.

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1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

Exaltation in LDS doctrine means the highest state of happiness and glory within the Celestial kingdom.

Eternal life in LDS doctrine means to be resurrected and spiritually alive and live in Gods presence eternally as families. All of those saved from hell receive eternal life.

Salvation in LDS doctrine means to be saved from physical and spiritual death.

As one can clearly see, salvation and eternal life are synonymous. Exaltation is a status elevated above salvation/eternal life. This is why things get confusing. People tend to think all three terms mean the same thing.

It depends on context, just as the correct meaning of the scriptures does.

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1 hour ago, Anddenex said:

and if there are three degrees within this kingdom

If. Exactly.

I am skeptical that there are three degrees therein. I don't deny there are, of course. (I don't believe that it is my place or right to interpret scripture individual of the prophets and apostles like some people do). But it doesn't make sense to me. Since there is very, very little said on the matter, I think's it's acceptable to take an "I'm not so sure" attitude in the matter.

Here's the deal:

To make it to the Celestial Kingdom we must obey the Father in all things, and upon failure in that regard, repent. So who, exactly, obeys the Father in all things but then says, "Nope. I choose disobedience" when it comes to marriage? And if said individual consciously and purposefully chose disobedience, their failure and unwillingness to repent, unwillingness to submit to the will of the Father, unwillingness to have a broken heart and a contrite spirit, etc., would hardly qualify them for Celestial glory, now, would it? And we know that if they cannot get married by choice that the opportunity will be given them. So who, exactly, is it that fits this impossible scenario of being both humble, obedient, willing to submit to the Father in all things, and also prideful, disobedient, and unwilling to submit to the Father in all things?

That's my simple thought on the matter.

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22 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Yes it does. In the context of the scriptures my definitions I gave are correct.

No, in the context of your definitions incorrect meaning is attributed to the scriptures.

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32 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

If. Exactly.

I am skeptical that there are three degrees therein. I don't deny there are, of course. (I don't believe that it is my place or right to interpret scripture individual of the prophets and apostles like some people do). But it doesn't make sense to me. Since there is very, very little said on the matter, I think's it's acceptable to take an "I'm not so sure" attitude in the matter.

Here's the deal:

To make it to the Celestial Kingdom we must obey the Father in all things, and upon failure in that regard, repent. So who, exactly, obeys the Father in all things but then says, "Nope. I choose disobedience" when it comes to marriage? And if said individual consciously and purposefully chose disobedience, their failure and unwillingness to repent, unwillingness to submit to the will of the Father, unwillingness to have a broken heart and a contrite spirit, etc., would hardly qualify them for Celestial glory, now, would it? And we know that if they cannot get married by choice that the opportunity will be given them. So who, exactly, is it that fits this impossible scenario of being both humble, obedient, willing to submit to the Father in all things, and also prideful, disobedient, and unwilling to submit to the Father in all things?

That's my simple thought on the matter.

Someone once suggested that there is progression from one degree to another within the celestial kingdom, so that all can eventually be exalted according a training schedule (so to speak). Some are newcomers and others have been there awhile. The lowest may be for those celestial spirits who have not been resurrected, but they will be once they are given parents, mates and children; the next for translated beings in the same condition; the highest for resurrected people.

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