Sleep Paralysis or Evil Spirits?


clbent04
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1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

I quoted your claim.  I even bothered to take out all other statements to focus on that specific claim that I'm addressing.  I'm not the one that made claims.  I simply called yours out.

Literally nobody has said that Sleep Paralysis is not an alternative explanation.  Some of us have explained why it isn't the most likely explanation, in our view, in @clbent04's case but I'm not aware of anybody dismissing it outright, in general.

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1 minute ago, unixknight said:

Literally nobody has said that Sleep Paralysis is not an alternative explanation.  Some of us have explained why it isn't the most likely explanation, in our view, in @clbent04's case but I'm not aware of anybody dismissing it outright, in general.

That says it is unixknight I'm quoting.

 

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6 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Saying that Sleep Paralysis is not an alternative explanation to your experience because our understanding of Sleep Paralysis is not good is something that is not applicable to the state of medicine in 2019.

I never said sleep paralysis isn't an alternative explanation to why people wake up in a paralyzed state.  I simply stated it's my opinion that what I experienced was caused by an evil spirit, not the side effects of sleep paralysis as understood by the medical community.

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48 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Hah hah... you're in rare form today.  You frame 3 questions and then conclude that because of those 3 questions, our scientific understanding is NOT very good. 

Hah Hah... You make statements that indicate you refuse to accept commonly accepted definitions of words.  Perhaps you should join the "preferred gender pronoun" crowd.

Having a solid scientific understanding of something means that we at least have:

  • Some underlying knowledge about the process in question as it interacts with other scientific facts we have already established.
  • Some data that has been collected to confirm that hypothesis.
  • And a conclusion that can be reasonably drawn from that data that explains what "A" causes "B".

What you've done is made fun of the scientific method.  Do you really want to continue down this path?

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By the way, those questions have answers. 

Then give them.  I asked open questions in all curiosity.  I was not aware of any such data or even theories.  And certainly no studies that have been done.  And I mean this sincerely, I'm simply of the opinion that I am ignorant of any such information out there.  If you can educate me, then I'd probably thank you for the new information.

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But that's irrelevant to the claim that because YOU don't have a good enough understanding of sleep paralysis that it can't be used as an alternative explanation to demonic possession.

I never made that claim.  Others may have.  I did not.  My position is completely different from yours or theirs.  I'm on the third road.

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2 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I never made that claim.  Others may have.  I did not.  My position is completely different from yours or theirs.  I'm on the third road.

Then you're inserting yourself in a discussion taking what we said to fit your own discussion.  We're not talking about third roads whatever that road is.

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22 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

I never said sleep paralysis isn't an alternative explanation to why people wake up in a paralyzed state.

Unixknight did.  That's the claim I'm responding to.

 

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I simply stated it's my opinion that what I experienced was caused by an evil spirit, not the side effects of sleep paralysis as understood by the medical community.

The title of your thread is a question.  If you already know that it is caused by an evil spirit, then why bother asking the question?  We can't possibly tell you what happened to you over the internet.  We can only draw from our own experiences on the matter.

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12 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Then you're inserting yourself in a discussion taking what we said to fit your own discussion.  We're not talking about third roads whatever that road is.

I didn't twist anything.  I simply asked some RELEVANT questions that you refused to answer.

Now you're making it worse by claiming that there are answers, yet still refusing to find them or give them when asked.

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16 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I never made that claim.  Others may have.  I did not.  My position is completely different from yours or theirs.  I'm on the third road.

I think your position is in line with most others here.  Nobody's been dismissing Sleep Paralysis.  It's just that there are plenty of people cheerleading for that as the only answer and so we emphasize the alternative as a way to counterbalance it.  I think we've all acknowledged that Sleep Paralysis is a thing, we're just not willing to assume it's the only thing.

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Just now, unixknight said:

I think your position is in line with most others here.  Nobody's been dismissing Sleep Paralysis.  It's just that there are plenty of people cheerleading for that as the only answer and so we emphasize the alternative as a way to counterbalance it.  I think we've all acknowledged that Sleep Paralysis is a thing, we're just not willing to assume it's the only thing.

I'm not sure it is a thing, any more than I think ball lightning is a thing.

The problem with both of them (AFIK) is that they both have a ton of anecdotal accounts, but they are so difficult to actually isolate for scientific study because they are so random.  So, we really have no idea what either of them are.

Who's to say that either of them aren't related to "other-worldly" things?  I'm not. 

Who's to say they are?  I'm not.

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26 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I didn't twist anything.  I simply asked some RELEVANT questions that you refused to answer.

Now you're making it worse by claiming that there are answers, yet still refusing to find them or give them when asked.

Dude, it's irrelevant to the discussion that you inserted yourself into.  "Refusing to find them or give them when asked" - who do you think you are?  I don't owe you anything.  

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37 minutes ago, unixknight said:

I think your position is in line with most others here.  Nobody's been dismissing Sleep Paralysis.  It's just that there are plenty of people cheerleading for that as the only answer and so we emphasize the alternative as a way to counterbalance it.  I think we've all acknowledged that Sleep Paralysis is a thing, we're just not willing to assume it's the only thing.

That's not what you said in that bullet point I challenged.  In that bullet point you stated that Sleep Paralysis is not a reliable alternative.  I have a family full of experiences where Sleep Paralysis IS a reliable cause.  Sleep Paralysis is very different from Demonic Presence.  Our family had experienced both as I've related on this very thread.  If you don't understand Sleep Paralysis, it is easy to interpret it as Demonic Presence.  That's why it is not accurate to state that we do not have enough understanding of Sleep Paralysis.  We do.  We have more than enough to distinguish it from Demonic Presence.  Several of my family members have gone through the medical process as Sleep Paralysis usually comes with other physiological issues tied to it.  Of course, those who do not believe in spirits will use Sleep Paralysis to justify a true Demonic Presence experience too.  Both are wrong.

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17 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Dude, it's irrelevant to the discussion that you inserted yourself into.  "Refusing to find them or give them when asked" - who do you think you are?  I don't owe you anything.  

Here is how anatess2 begins each day by staring at herself in the mirror each morning and reciting her battle song 

658733301_nevergiveup.gif.a24a8b8f8fe813f75030ebd4e7d97b2c.gif

Edited by clbent04
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29 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

That's not what you said in that bullet point I challenged. 

Yes it is.  Here's what you quoted, with me boldfacing the meat of it:

3 hours ago, anatess2 said:

 our scientific understanding of Sleep Paralysis is NOT very good.  There's a lot we don't know about sleep, the brain, the state between slumber and wakefulness.  There are just a ton of gaps which makes Sleep Paralysis an unreliable alternative explanation, as I see it.  While @clbent04's account carries many of the criteria for what we know as Sleep Paralysis, we really don't know enough about it to really understand what that even means.

I made a factual statement, that there's a lot we don't know about sleep, the brain, etc.  Then I expressed my view that the gaps are enough to make it an unreliable explanation.  Implicit in that is that I'm discussing this particular case, as I went on to mention @clbent's account again.  I also opened  up that section of my post by specifically saying that it was my process in this particular case.  That's hardly a condemnation of Sleep Paralysis in general.  In fact,  you'd have the right context by recalling what I said earlier in the thread:

On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:10 AM, unixknight said:

I'm not suggesting that every case must be supernatural, or that psychology is wrong.  I just think we need to remain aware that it isn't always one or the other, and use the right tool for the job.

That should be sufficient, if we're discussing in good faith.

29 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I have a family full of experiences where Sleep Paralysis IS a reliable cause.... Our family had experienced both as I've related on this very thread.

Okay.  You said that before.  I didn't question it.  If somebody else did then take it up with them and quit projecting it onto me.

29 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Sleep Paralysis is very different from Demonic Presence.

That's the entire basis of what we've been saying.

29 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Of course, those who do not believe in spirits will use Sleep Paralysis to justify a true Demonic Presence experience too. 

...as others (including myself) have been emphasizing this entire time.  

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32 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Dude, it's irrelevant to the discussion that you inserted yourself into.  "Refusing to find them or give them when asked" - who do you think you are?  I don't owe you anything.  

I "inserted" myself?  I've been following this thing from the beginning because I found it to be a fascinating topic.  And I found the discussion to be informative, thought provoking, and amusing.

Remember, the claim that Unix made was "the science behind it isn't solid" (paraphrased).  You denounced that idea.  I was wondering what your basis was.  So, I asked.  But your response (or lack thereof) is not making you look good.

And you're right, you don't owe me anything.  But it is a rare person who can make unfounded claims and still have any credibility of taking the moral high ground when you can't back them up.

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2 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Yes it is.  Here's what you quoted, with me boldfacing the meat of it:

I made a factual statement, that there's a lot we don't know about sleep, the brain, etc.  Then I expressed my view that the gaps are enough to make it an unreliable explanation.  Implicit in that is that I'm discussing this particular case, as I went on to mention @clbent's account again.  That's hardly a condemnation of Sleep Paralysis in general.  In fact,  you'd have the right context by recalling what I said earlier in the thread:

That should be sufficient, if we're discussing in good faith.

Okay.  You said that before.  I didn't question it.  If somebody else did then take it up with them and quit projecting it onto me.

That's the entire basis of what we've been saying.

...as others (including myself) have been emphasizing this entire time.  

Then I may have interpreted that bullet point incorrectly because I didn't connect that with a clbent's specific case but as a generalization of these cases.

The case with clbent's account if we're going to be specific to that is 6 pages of moot-point discussions as I've stated very early on from the facts provided.  NOBODY on the internet can tell clbent what it was.  We can discuss it until the sky falls to the ground none of it will matter.  I thought clbent was asking a question - sleep paralysis or evil spirit? - in that case, with the facts gathered and I re-iterated, there is no way for anybody to know.  But there IS a way of finding out in the future as I've told clbent if it happens again.  But it requires clbent to get familiar with what Sleep Paralysis and apply certain suggestions to differentiate it from evil spirits.  But that has now become moot-point too because clbent says he is sure it is an evil spirit.  If he's sure, then that's that.  None of us are in a position to say it might not.

And that's all I have to say about that.

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7 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I "inserted" myself?  I've been following this thing from the beginning because I found it to be a fascinating topic.  And I found the discussion to be informative, thought provoking, and amusing.

Remember, the claim that Unix made was "the science behind it isn't solid" (paraphrased).  You denounced that idea.  I was wondering what your basis was.  So, I asked.  But your response (or lack thereof) is not making you look good.

And you're right, you don't owe me anything.  But it is a rare person who can make unfounded claims and still have any credibility of taking the moral high ground when you can't back them up.

The discussion is between what unixknight said and my challenge to that bullet point he claimed.  "The science behind it isn't solid" is not what we're talking about.  We're talking about Sleep Paralysis versus Evil Spirits.  In 2019, the science behind Sleep Paralysis is solid enough to distinguish it from Evil Spirits.  Or Alien Abductions.  Or anything else Sleep Paralysis is interpreted as in different cultures.

It is a rare person to make this about my unfounded claims when I didn't make any claims but simply challenged a claim... and then make it into "taking the moral high ground".  

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Just now, anatess2 said:

The discussion is between what unixknight said and my challenge to that bullet point he claimed.  "The science behind it isn't solid" is not what we're talking about.  We're talking about Sleep Paralysis versus Evil Spirits.  In 2019, the science behind Sleep Paralysis is solid enough to distinguish it from Evil Spirits.  Or Alien Abductions.  Or anything else Sleep Paralysis is interpreted as in different cultures.

It is a rare person to make this about my unfounded claims when I didn't make any claims but simply challenged a claim... and then make it into "taking the moral high ground".  

Facepalm-Funny-Bear-Meme-Picture.jpg.45c5c288454df57a92073af332653853.jpg

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Just now, clbent04 said:

When you didn't think anatess2 would ever admit to being wrong about anything ever, but then she does.

amazement.gif.c178f547b23b1d72da2154b046d6d316.gif

 

Okay, if this wasn't clear before I'm going to say it clearly this time.  Insulting me may be fun for you, but it is not fun.  And, frankly, it is starting to make me upset.  And I don't get upset easy.  But there are two of you here throwing insults at me today.  I will expect an apology.

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25 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Okay, if this wasn't clear before I'm going to say it clearly this time.  Insulting me may be fun for you, but it is not fun.  And, frankly, it is starting to make me upset.  And I don't get upset easy.  But there are two of you here throwing insults at me today.  I will expect an apology.

When have you ever been concerned about making others upset by voicing your opinion on here? 

You said it best. To quote you:

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

who do you think you are?  I don't owe you anything.  

 

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  • 3 years later...

The name sleep paralysis insinuates that it happens when you are sleeping, going into or coming out of sleep.

I have experienced this during daylight hours while kneeling and praying. I remember clearly what it felt like. It has happened to me quite a few times over the last 20 years at night times - but it feels the same as when I experienced at day time, while being fully awake and out of bed. Just last night I had another experience twice in a row. I was awake. I find that turning on the light helps prevent it from happening again. Ever since it doesn't scare me much anymore, its frequency reduced. So I was quite surprised with my experience last night after a few years of not having an encounter.

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