I Would Like Opinions On An Activity My Kids Did In Primary

[rusure]

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LDS believe the sacrifice for sin was on the cross.

I'm incredibly glad to hear you say that, though many who have posted in this thread would disagree with us.

Then I think you have misunderstood what others have said.

[Maureen]

...So why all the discussion about Gethsemane? Christians the world over have long marvelled at Luke 22:44: 'And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.'

I'm still making my way through this thread but thought I would add what I found from the NET Bible regarding the Luke verses:

[Then an angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. And in his anguish 112 he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.] 113 (Luke 22:43-44)

112tn Grk “And being in anguish.”

113 tc Several important Greek mss (Ì75 א1 A B N T W 579 1071*) along with diverse and widespread versional witnesses lack 22:43-44. In addition, the verses are placed after Matt 26:39 by Ë13. Floating texts typically suggest both spuriousness and early scribal impulses to regard the verses as historically authentic. These verses are included in א*,2 D L Θ Ψ 0171 Ë1 Ï lat Ju Ir Hipp Eus. However, a number of mss mark the text with an asterisk or obelisk, indicating the scribe’s assessment of the verses as inauthentic. At the same time, these verses generally fit Luke’s style. Arguments can be given on both sides about whether scribes would tend to include or omit such comments about Jesus’ humanity and an angel’s help. But even if the verses are not literarily authentic, they are probably historically authentic. This is due to the fact that this text was well known in several different locales from a very early period. Since there are no synoptic parallels to this account and since there is no obvious reason for adding these words here, it is very likely that such verses recount a part of the actual suffering of our Lord. Nevertheless, because of the serious doubts as to these verses’ authenticity, they have been put in brackets. For an important discussion of this problem, see B. D. Ehrman and M. A. Plunkett, “The Angel and the Agony: The Textual Problem of Luke 22:43-44,” CBQ 45 (1983): 401-16.

sn Angelic aid is noted elsewhere in the gospels: Matt 4:11 = Mark 1:13.

M.

[sierra-breann]

I think the nail and ribbon is a great idea. It helps us to remember that Jesus died for us. And if it wasn't for Jesus dying for us we wouldn't have to amazing opportunities that we receive because of him and his love for us. Object lessons really help the younger children to focus on sharing time. Now everytime they see that nail and the ribbon they will remember the concept they were taught that day in primary. I do sharing time nearly every week and it is hard to find things on lds.org they are interesting enough to keep the childrens attention span. We have a young primary. I don't feel that everything you use should have to come off of lds.org. As long as you are teaching the things the general primary presents for each months themes it shouldn't matter.

[Flyonthewall]

I have not read the entire thread, so forgive me if I am repeating something that has already been brought out.

Was the Primary teacher a convert? If so, that could easily explain why....

My wife was the Primary president, when one of our kids came home from primary with a crochet'ed bookmark in the shape of the cross. My wife asked me what, if anything she should do about it. We both agreed that it was not a big deal, but it should be brought to the attention of the teacher that we shouldn't be giving crosses out in primary.

So my wife, being the president talked to the teacher, who was a dear sweet, older lady, that was confined to an electric scooter. Well, this sweet lady felt embarrassed for being talked to about it. She explained that when she was a little girl, a teacher in the church she attended, gave her one, and it had special meaning to her, and she wanted to do the same thing for her class. It made my wife feel really bad for the teacher, that took the time to make the bookmarks by hand so that her class could have a special memento.

Please be gentle if you speak to the teacher, because it could be an innocent oversight.

[smileadventures]

Might I suggest that ideas gleaned on this very board would be inappropriate under these rules. Don't consider using anything you learn here for.... anything at church on Sunday - it's not LDS.org. :)

[WANDERER]

I have worn a cross before: as a symbol of Christ's love, sacrifice and giving...and as a reminder of what it is to be Christ-like...His love and His grace. Okay, an empty cross makes a bit more sense to me.

I'm a bit weirded out by people who see it as some sort of 'evil' symbol. I guess I'd never really thought about it as wearing an instrument of torture and death around my neck. But really, how can I find it offensive...or shun it...or turn away from it.

I was reading through some responses to atonement and came across someone who thought the whole crucifixion

"Morally repugnant that an innocent person should pay the price"

Morally repugnant. Their response is 'revulsion'.

It kind of does my head in.

[THIRDpersonviewer]

I would just say, from my understanding, the cross has been a representation of the death of Christ. That He is dead. We as Mormons believe that He lives. There are a great many Mormons that also know that He lives.

I worship a living God. Not death.

[Truegrits]

When I see a cross, I do not think "death", I just think Jesus.

I only think "death" when I see a crucifix. And He had to die; that was the plan, so I have always wondered why it was so 'wrong' to wear a cross?

[ruthiechan]

Consider this. Many evils were done in the name of God, many evil deeds done while bearing the cross. Mayhaps that is another reason to not have the cross as a symbol for the Church. Since the cross is not the symbol for the LDS church then if I wear a cross people will not know what Church belong to and thusly just think "christian" when they see me. Of course I am Christian since I believe in Christ and try to follow Him, but it's not the same as belonging to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I know an LDS gal who wears a Star of David with the cross in the center around her neck. She is not jewish. I think the idea was neat, but not something I would wear.

Might I suggest that ideas gleaned on this very board would be inappropriate under these rules. Don't consider using anything you learn here for.... anything at church on Sunday - it's not LDS.org. :)

That does not seem to pan out for me. I am the Relief Society Music Director. While there are some very general ideas for what to do during my five minutes of music time there aren't specific activities given.

However, there are lesson activities for the children in the lesson book but I do recall that one must consider the maturity of the children, their special needs, and other such things. I know there are some lessons that would be exclusive to some children. For example, some activities require you to walk or hop or whatever but if you have a child who is chair bound, well, that's not a good idea to do now is it? So it is then up to the teacher to prayfully find another suitable activity that would include the child in the wheel chair (and yes, I've had some experience regarding such things).

I do not know the age of the children that this nail and ribbon activity was done with. If it were younger than eight then I would question the wisdom, however I think if the person was led by the Spirit to give the children a nail with a red ribbon around it then it's a-ok by me. In fact, if I received that sort of thing I would've hung it up on my wall as a reminder and have it still assuming I was old enough to understand the significance. And yes, I really do have some items from childhood that held significance for me.

PS: It took me two days to finish this thread. Oy.

Oh, and Crimson I could not find your thread. I am interested in reading it so if you could give me the exact link I would be very happy, the links you gave just go back to the main forum page. *sadness*

PS again: Ah, just found it by searching for your username and threads you started.

[Flyonthewall]

my personal opinion is that the cross is neither good nor evil, however, my faith in Christ goes beyond His death. His mission did not end with His death, but with His ressurection, and really, His mission will not be over until this mortality ends for us all.

As has been stated by GBH, or some other GA's, our symbol of Christ should be our lives.

[Tough Grits]

This thread was started regarding something that was sent home from primary.

Setting aside all religious/gospel aspects...I would be VERY upset if somebody gave my children a nail...as they would poke each other in the eye with them!

They got in a fist-fight today over a doughnut. So, it would have disturbed me greatly if they had been given a nail, a safety pin, a needle, or anything sharp or with a sharp edge.

I am not trying to be light about the topic...but we all have our own perspective.

My perspective would have been the folly of giving my children, especially my son, a sharp object.

I am not going to touch the whole Gethsemane/cross issue. How I feel about what my Savior has done for me is personal, and how I choose to view Gethsemane is also personal. All that truly matters, as has been mentioned in this thread many times, is that I know Jesus Christ DID atone for me, that he was resurrected, and that he lives.

As for the cross, it is just a piece of jewelry...like any CTR ring or charm.

Half the time I don't even wear a wedding band...because it is just a piece of jewelry. Wearing or not wearing that wedding ring does NOT make or break my eternal marriage with my husband.

More important that any ring, is the love that my husband and I have for each other.

More important than any cross or CTR ring, is the love that we have for Heavenly Father, our gratitude for the sacrifice of our Savior, and the trust in the witness of the Holy Ghost.

I don't hold any piece of jewelry that I own as sacred. But by the same token, it is not for me to judge if another chooses to wear a cross, a CTR ring, or a wedding band.

Do what makes you feel right. Let others do the same.

[ruthiechan]

Good point about about the whole sharp object issue!

Which goes back to my thoughts on it depends on the age and maturity of the children. I have known eight year olds who are not mature enough to handle a sharp object including scissors without serious supervision.

[Tough Grits]

Good point about about the whole sharp object issue!

Which goes back to my thoughts on it depends on the age and maturity of the children. I have known eight year olds who are not mature enough to handle a sharp object including scissors without serious supervision.

Exactly.

BTW: I just love your signature quote. Funny, but so very true.

[ruthiechan]

Exactly.

BTW: I just love your signature quote. Funny, but so very true.

Why thank you. :)

I love your new avatar. It works.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I agree that the whole nail thing is a worry if it was a real nail and therefore could be dangerous.

My personal view of the atonement is that Gethsemane is where he took upon himself the sins of the world and the cross is where he paid the ultimate price and therefore was able to declare "It is finished." Gethsemane was a very private setting, even private from those who went with him as he left them and walked on a little further to pray alone. Golgotha was very public. It therefore makes perfect sense to me that there would be forshadowing of the latter but not the former. People would/could/should have been able to recognise the crucifixion as the fulfilment of the previous forshadowings whereas no-one saw Gethsemane and therefore there was no recognition and therefore no need of anything to recognise.

[Islander]

I have worn a cross before: as a symbol of Christ's love, sacrifice and giving...and as a reminder of what it is to be Christ-like...His love and His grace. Okay, an empty cross makes a bit more sense to me.

I'm a bit weirded out by people who see it as some sort of 'evil' symbol. I guess I'd never really thought about it as wearing an instrument of torture and death around my neck. But really, how can I find it offensive...or shun it...or turn away from it.

I was reading through some responses to atonement and came across someone who thought the whole crucifixion

"Morally repugnant that an innocent person should pay the price"

Morally repugnant. Their response is 'revulsion'.

It kind of does my head in.

If you go to Mexico, for example, you will see that people carry small gold replicas of AK-47 which is a very popular assault rifle among the drug dealers. I have seen also small replicas of handguns as well attached to gold chains. It is the Mex version of the "bling bling."

Most people do not think about it. Other have been desensitized from it and yet another group has rationalized it (the cross) into being a sacred piece of memorabilia.

Ultimately we are free to chose and do what we will. It is, however, wise to hearken to the council of the brethren in these things. After all the question has been around for 150 years.

Edited June 14, 2008 by Islander

[candyprpl]

Okay, if the primary kid is like 3-6 years old, maybe the nail would go over their heads.

But you can't seriously expect me to believe that 8-11 year-old kids who have action figures with guns and swords that depict violence and who watch movies like Ninja Turtles...these same kids are not supposed to be able to handle the awful truth of our Lord's death?

Again, I think this uncomfortable feeling about the ornament isn't about age or propriety, but about a personal disconnect with the cross in LDS religion.

I don't like seeing kids play with toys that depict violence! I think the ornament was a little extreme. Nobody is saying that what it symbolizes is wrong -- just a little to extreme. Kids are very tender-hearted and they don't need this kind of symbol to know Jesus Christ and the Atonement. I've been teaching in primary for 2 years now and I haven't come across anything like that.

Just my opinion^_^

[Maya]

all lessons are to be followed in class as well as the activities....there is not suppose to be any outside material brought in.....all material used is suppose to be borrowed from the Material Center.I could go on with more but I won't. I think you all will get my point....

Really uh what material center been 20+ years in primary never heard about it... but then we are not in USA?!

I been trying to make a bit different lesons than in the book.. I just cant think of dong lessons the way they are in the book... If I had followed the book entirely I think my kids had goen on walls! I think the main thing for primary is to thach kids that it is nice to be in the church and that God loves them. Hmm Actually my kids had, in the last 4 years I taught, one and the same same book same lessons every second year . There is only 2 books for ages 4-8. We been told the book is an aid to us but we dont have to follow it if we ahve something better. I think my project with making of the swoard of rigiousness and shield of the truth and helmet of ... missing my words here. Any way you get the picture... each lesson had about each thing like rigiousness, truth... which ever thing we were making, plus a short summupp of the lesson they ahd had two years a go. Kids were with whole hearted.

Some classes are too smart to ahve same lesson so may times. Some are too smart to ahve the lesson the way it is in the book some are again not developed enough to ahve the lesson it is written.

Here in Norway kids in general do not read before the age of 8! (Thanks to the school system) So ALL lessons where you write or ask them to read before that age .. actually 9 may be a pain to those slower in learning and cause unwillingness to attend!

[sugarcrane2]

I'm kinda well.... shocked by this quote

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palerider

all lessons are to be followed in class as well as the activities....there is not suppose to be any outside material brought in.....all material used is suppose to be borrowed from the Material Center.I could go on with more but I won't. I think you all will get my point....

Yes we are to stick to the manuals but really I can't find a different coloring page? I can't bring in a fish craft for the "I'm Thankful for Fish" lesson? Heavenly Father wants us to teach what he has given us in the manuals you do that and you find ways to make it relevant it the children. I first taught that lesson 5 yrs ago and one of the kids still has it hanging in his house. He remembers that God loves him and hopefully that I loved him to. There are hundreds of online recourses that have ideas for primary our presidency has even talked about her favs. We don't need to go back to the being told how many steps we can take on Sunday and still keep it holy. We have been given the chance to prove that we can follow the spirit and use his guidance in preparing a lesson. We are given stewardship of that class and are promised Divine guidance when we ask for it. Stick to the lessons, pray and have fun with them.

The nail I think its fine, those 3 year olds know more then we think and if they don't one day they will. They will see that and remember that Jesus knows what they are feeling because he has felt it to, he knows them and loves them and isn't that the whole point of primary?