1000 years in hell??


dahlia
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I don't see any scenario where anyone will be without God in satisfactory. The plan of salvation set out in the council is something we all agreed on and everyone will have the opportunity to reach their eternal happiness with God and their family.

James 1:12, “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.”.

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2 minutes ago, Rickie said:

I don't see any scenario where anyone will be without God in satisfactory. The plan of salvation set out in the council is something we all agreed on and everyone will have the opportunity to reach their eternal happiness with God and their family.

James 1:12, “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.”.

I agree with one caveat. Any and all who set foot into the way of salvation unto eternal life will achieve it. Only those who fully end up rejecting the Savior, like Satan, will not achieve it.

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1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

yet on the other forgive the women caught in adultery immediately as Christ did

Christ didn't forgive her, he just did not condemn her, her option to repent of her sin remained possible, rather than receiving an immediate punishment as established by the Law of Moses.  You are right that most people interpret the passage incorrectly and assume she was forgiven immediately.  That said, I'm not sure it is worth arguing further as it is far off the topic of this thread, and also because it has been discussed on this forum a couple of times since I joined.

1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

But, we don't have these same reservations in regards to say an 11 year old Israeli girl who is of the Jewish faith and dies of cancer at that age. We don't say she's going to hell.

Hell meaning Spirit Prison, yes, absolutely, I would say she goes there!  I have a son who is 10 years old; his adoption has not yet been finalized, and as a result, he has not yet been baptized; if he were to die today, I have no problem acknowledging that he would be in Spirit Prison until we complete his work.  The problem is that, from what I can tell, you view Spirit Prison as the same for everyone who goes there, and that it is Hell in the figurative sense.  The reality however is that Spirit Prison is going to be a different experience for different individuals, just like the Greek usage of the word Hades would indicate, and just like modern prophets teach and have taught.

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9 minutes ago, person0 said:

Christ didn't forgive her, he just did not condemn her, her option to repent of her sin remained possible, rather than receiving an immediate punishment as established by the Law of Moses.  You are right that most people interpret the passage incorrectly and assume she was forgiven immediately.  That said, I'm not sure it is worth arguing further as it is far off the topic of this thread, and also because it has been discussed on this forum a couple of times since I joined.

Hell meaning Spirit Prison, yes, absolutely, I would say she goes there!  I have a son who is 10 years old; his adoption has not yet been finalized, and as a result, he has not yet been baptized; if he were to die today, I have no problem acknowledging that he would be in Spirit Prison until we complete his work.  The problem is that, from what I can tell, you view Spirit Prison as the same for everyone who goes there, and that it is Hell in the figurative sense.  The reality however is that Spirit Prison is going to be a different experience for different individuals, just like the Greek usage of the word Hades would indicate, and just like modern prophets teach and have taught.

Well, you are wrong. No nice way to say it. "Spirit prison" is hell. No ifs and or buts.

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17 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Well, you are wrong. No nice way to say it. "Spirit prison" is hell. No ifs and or buts.

Spirit Prison is Hell, no ifs ands or buts.  This is a literal statement.  We are saying nearly identical words with completely different meanings.  My position agrees with modern revelation, your position stems from your personal, non authoritative, interpretation of scripture.  To put it in the words of a guy I know, "You are wrong. No nice way to say it."

What type of torment do you suppose a 10 year old girl who for all intents and purposes was righteous would experience in Hell, anyway?  If Jesus went and hung out in Hell, would he all of a sudden start suffering just because he was there?  Would the spirits in Paradise have to suffer through a bombardment of torment at they trek through Spirit Prison to preach the gospel?  To me these all have a simple answer; there is no torment for the righteous, even in Prison.

Unrelated, I have been meaning to ask you, I know you have been a member for a long time, but I wonder, did you originally convert from another faith?

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30 minutes ago, person0 said:

Spirit Prison is Hell, no ifs ands or buts.  This is a literal statement.  We are saying nearly identical words with completely different meanings.  My position agrees with modern revelation, your position stems from your personal, non authoritative, interpretation of scripture.  To put it in the words of a guy I know, "You are wrong. No nice way to say it."

What type of torment do you suppose a 10 year old girl who for all intents and purposes was righteous would experience in Hell, anyway?  If Jesus went and hung out in Hell, would he all of a sudden start suffering just because he was there?  Would the spirits in Paradise have to suffer through a bombardment of torment at they trek through Spirit Prison to preach the gospel?  To me these all have a simple answer; there is no torment for the righteous, even in Prison.

Unrelated, I have been meaning to ask you, I know you have been a member for a long time, but I wonder, did you originally convert from another faith?

Spirit prison is hell. It's where the detestable wicked spirits go. It's not where 11 year old Jewish girls who die of cancer go. They go to Paradise. 

No, I have always been LDS, born into the covenant.

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12 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
            15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:14-15)

And how does this say that the second death is not "hell"?  The scripture says exactly that - that the second death is and should be considered hell.  You seem to have this idea that {We shouldn't conflate the "second death" language with "hell" or "spiritual death" as the second death in scripture has a unique and separate meaning.} confused and completely wrong.

 

The Traveler

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15 minutes ago, Traveler said:

And how does this say that the second death is not "hell"?  The scripture says exactly that - that the second death is and should be considered hell.  You seem to have this idea that {We shouldn't conflate the "second death" language with "hell" or "spiritual death" as the second death in scripture has a unique and separate meaning.} confused and completely wrong.

 

The Traveler

To clarify- we shouldn't conflate the first spiritual death and temporary hell with the second spiritual death and eternal hell that awaits the unrepentant at judgment.

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2 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

To clarify- we shouldn't conflate the first spiritual death and temporary hell with the second spiritual death and eternal hell that awaits the unrepentant at judgment.

WRONG - There is no difference.  There is only one spiritual death which is separation from G-d the Father whereby one is subject to Satan.  There is no such thing as a "Second" spiritual death.  

You say we are subject to G-d (at his right hand) or subject to Satan (at the left hand of G-d) - now you are saying there is a 3rd possibility or second spiritual death - I Do Not Believe You!!!  And I am quite sure if anyone else posted this same contradiction - you would not believe it. 

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

WRONG - There is no difference.  There is only one spiritual death which is separation from G-d the Father whereby one is subject to Satan.  There is no such thing as a "Second" spiritual death.  

You say we are subject to G-d (at his right hand) or subject to Satan (at the left hand of G-d) - now you are saying there is a 3rd possibility or second spiritual death - I Do Not Believe You!!!  And I am quite sure if anyone else posted this same contradiction - you would not believe it. 

 

The Traveler

There very much is a first and a second spiritual death. They are both the same thing but they are called "first" and "second" to designate the timing and effects as they are different. All are redeemed from the first spiritual death and brought back before God in judgment. Those found filthy still at that point are cast into the second death which is an eternal spiritual death, its no longer temporary. Thus, at judgment, there is either the right hand to inherit eternal life or on the left to inherit eternal death.

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On 1/14/2019 at 3:12 PM, Rob Osborn said:

Spirit prison is hell. It's where the detestable wicked spirits go. It's not where 11 year old Jewish girls who die of cancer go. They go to Paradise. 

No, I have always been LDS, born into the covenant.

From the Plan of Salvation on LDS.org:

Spirit Prison

The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18–20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

Also, it seems that Spirit Prison and Spirit Paradise are more a state of mind rather than a specific location.   It is said that after we die there will be teachers and learners.   Those is Spirit Paradise will be teaching and those in Spirit Prison will be learning (or at least given the chance to learn).   If this is true it seems like Spirit Prison and Spirit Paradise would be in the same location, but the state of mind (or spirit) will be different.   Otherwise how those who are teaching others at the same time that others are learning from the teachers?  

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6 hours ago, Scott said:

From the Plan of Salvation on LDS.org:

Spirit Prison

The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18–20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

Also, it seems that Spirit Prison and Spirit Paradise are more a state of mind rather than a specific location.   It is said that after we die there will be teachers and learners.   Those is Spirit Paradise will be teaching and those in Spirit Prison will be learning (or at least given the chance to learn).   If this is true it seems like Spirit Prison and Spirit Paradise would be in the same location, but the state of mind (or spirit) will be different.   Otherwise how those who are teaching others at the same time that others are learning from the teachers?  

Spirit prison (hell) is a separate location from paradise, both paradise and hell are not a frame of mind, they are actual places. The scriptures speak for themselves on who are in Spirit prison-

13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.
            14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection. (Alma 40:14-14)

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