So... Solo. The Han Solo Movie. The.... yeah.

[unixknight]

So despite the misery in the title, I didn't *hate* Solo: An Old Western A Star Wars Story.  My hate is reserved for Episode 8 and Star Trek: Into Darkness.

Was it good?  I mean, I dunno.  Still digesting.  There are two things though that I think were just not done well.

And yeah, brace for spoilers.

First, this movie should have been completely reworked and called: Lando: A Star Wars Story.  Lando Calrissian was, without a doubt, the only likeable character in the film for me, and the only one who is at all interesting.  He's not overdone, the character's backstory is added to without breaking anything, and we come away still feeling like there's a lot more to the character that we could learn and more stories to tell.  He's charismatic, he's amusing, and he's possibly the only competent character in the movie because he seems to be the only character making rational decisions (when he's not sitting at the card table, anyway.)  I actually felt bad for him that he lost the Millenium Falcon.

Second, and this is the part that bugs me... Han Solo is a character who, when we first meet him in Episode 4, comes across like a guy who's been around the galaxy a few times and has a long and colorful history.  We get hints about that history all through the original trilogy.  What's the Kessel Run?  How did Han and Chewie meet?  What's the history between Han and Lando?  Has he always been a smuggler?  How did he start working for Jabba?  Gee, I bet there's a lot of cool stories to tell about this guy.

Nope.  Just one.  All of that history compressed into one single film.  We learn how Han got his blaster, how he was an Imperial soldier, how he met Chewie, how he met Lando, how he acquired the Falcon, what the Kessel Run is...  (Mind you, I have the exact same complaint about the prologue to Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade where we learn that in one single Boy Scout adventure, Indy acquired his snake phobia, his affinity for a bullwhip, his hat, and his personal style as an adventurer archaeologist.  WHAT IS IT WITH YOUR CHARACTERS, HARRISON FORD???)

So where else is there to  go with this character?  Had these latest Star Wars movies done well, what else could they have done with Solo to fill this stuff in?  I guess we could have had the story of how he got on Jabba's bad side but...   *sigh*.  It feels like they were trying to cram it all in out of a fear that this movie wouldn't get a "sequel."  

Well, at least they got that right.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

The hatred of the new films seems to be from fans that were sad that their pet theories bore no fruit. I have loved all the new films very much.

[anatess2]

35 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

The hatred of the new films seems to be from fans that were sad that their pet theories bore no fruit. I have loved all the new films very much.

This is completely baseless.  COMPLETELY.  So, because you displayed that you don't know Star Wars and its fandom,  it's understandable that you would like The Last Jedi very much.

[anatess2]

@unixknight, Solo went through a ginormous rewrite - which is part of the reason it lost a lot of money.  It shouldn't have cost that much to make in the first place.

The Han Solo Trilogy, and also The Lando Calrissian Trilogy from the old expanded universe (novels) is so much better in bridging Solo and Lando's histories into A New Hope and keeping the essence of the movie character.  Even after they had to ret-conn some characters to fit into Phantom Menace (yeah @Emmanuel Goldstein, the fandom doesn't blow a gasket when Lucasfilms do this if it makes sense).

I rolled my eyes in the name Solo.  You're alone?  Ok, we'll call you Solo.  So now Kylo Ren is Ben Solo because his father is... alone.  Lame.

And then there's the stupid droid.  Fine if you make a stupid droid.  I make fun of how they make C3PO stupid.  But now, that stupid droid is the heart and brain of the most loved spaceship, the one and only, the epic symbol of the Star Wars Universe... the Millenium Falcon.  So yeah, way to destroy the Millenium Falcon, mates.

Anyway, I like how Solo and Chewy met - this follows the old expanded universe.  Although it was kinda, huh?  how Solo can speak wookie.  And I like how Lando and Solo met even as it is drastically different from the old expanded universe (Lando won the Falcon but he can't fly it, so he went looking for Solo who had a reputation of being a great racing pilot... they smuggled together until Solo won the Falcon from Lando on another game).

Edited January 15, 2019 by anatess2

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, unixknight said:

We learn how Han got his blaster, how he was an Imperial soldier, how he met Chewie, how he met Lando, how he acquired the Falcon, what the Kessel Run is... 

We also learn about the love triangle between Lando/Han/L3-37.  And how Han won, and she is now the soul of Millenium Falcon.  

And how close everyone is to getting uncomfortable the next time they get reminded of how Solo beat on the Falcon's console to get the hyperdrive to work in the original trilogy.  (But hey, we survived Leia kissing her brother, we can survive this, right?)

Edited January 15, 2019 by NeuroTypical

[anatess2]

11 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

We also learn about the love triangle between Lando/Han/L3-37.  And how Han won, and she is now the soul of Millenium Falcon.  

And how close everyone is to getting uncomfortable the next time they get reminded of how Solo beat on the Falcon's console to get the hyperdrive to work in the original trilogy.  (But hey, we survived Leia kissing her brother, we can survive this, right?)

It's one thing to kiss someone you didn't know was your brother (there's this super awesome movie, People Like Us, where Chris Pine tried to help out his sister who doesn't know she has a brother and she tried to kiss him... it was awesome how Chris Pine portrayed the, uhm no no yech! scene).  It's another thing to beat, berate, and yell at some---thing you know is the love of your life.. yech.  Argg... this is just stupid.

Interesting side note, the new Fantastic Beast movie revealed Nagini as a Maledictus - a woman who permanently turned into a snake - which made fans gulp because of the things Voldemort did to that snake - practically making her into his slave - knowing it's a woman in there.  The studio was like, Voldemort loves Nagini, you can see how he always protected her... well, duh, he made her into his horcrux!

P.S. @Emmanuel Goldstein, the fandom didn't blow a gasket with the siblings reveal either after Lea had that kissy-thing with Luke.

Edited January 15, 2019 by anatess2

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

13 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

But now, that stupid droid is the heart and brain of the most loved spaceship, the one and only, the epic symbol of the Star Wars Universe... the Millenium Falcon.  So yeah, way to destroy the Millenium Falcon, mates.

It does have a peculiar dialect.

[unixknight]

1 hour ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

The hatred of the new films seems to be from fans that were sad that their pet theories bore no fruit. I have loved all the new films very much.

If you like these new movies then more power to ya.  Makes them feel like less of a disaster.

That said, I think it's unfair to chalk fan disappointment up to pet theories not being canonized.  I've personally never been one to indulge in theorizing.  I stick to what's on the screen.  Period.  Yes, I've read Star Wars (and Star Trek) novels but always kept in mind that they were non-canon sources and could readily be wiped out by anything that  hits the screen.

I dislike the newer films because to me they reek of corporate interference and political pandering.  They just aren't good films, speaking quantitatively.  I enjoyed Solo, but I'm not calling it a good movie.

26 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Anyway, I like how Solo and Chewy met - this follows the old expanded universe.  Although it was kinda, huh?  how Solo can speak wookie.  And I like how Lando and Solo met even as it is drastically different from the old expanded universe (Lando won the Falcon but he can't fly it, so he went looking for Solo who had a reputation of being a great racing pilot... they smuggled together until Solo won the Falcon from Lando on another game).

Yeah like I said above the deviations from the EU don't bother me.  I wouldn't want filmmakers to feel beholden to what exists in previously published novels (or other media), because the visual medium in motion pictures isn't even remotely the same as novels.  What works in one medium doesn't necessarily work in others.

Edited January 15, 2019 by unixknight

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

3 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

P.S. @Emmanuel Goldstein, the fandom didn't blow a gasket with the siblings reveal either after Lea had that kissy-thing with Luke.

Probably because it was not a big deal at the time. But most fans that whine about the new group of films were not even born in 1983. The fandom has changed for the worse in my opinion. We should just enjoy the films or not, but going on the web and saying "I will never see Solo because I did not like episode 8" is just kind of childish, don't you think?

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

1 minute ago, unixknight said:

That said, I think it's unfair to chalk it up to pet theories not being canonized.  I've personally never been one to indulge in theorizing.  I stick to what's on the screen.  Period.  Yes, I've read Star Wars (and Star Trek) novels but always kept in mind that they were non-canon sources and could readily be wiped out by anything that  hits the screen.

I dislike the newer films because to me they reek of corporate interference and political pandering.  They just aren't good films, speaking quantitatively.  I enjoyed Solo, but I'm not calling it a good movie.

Yeah like I said above the deviations from the EU don't bother me.  I wouldn't want filmmakers to feel beholden to what exists in previously published novels (or other media), because the visual medium in motion pictures isn't even remotely the same as novels.  What works in one medium doesn't necessarily work in others.

You make some good points, but it is all based on our personal preferences. I enjoyed that Ryan Johnson did everything exactly the opposite of what we expected. It made the film funner to watch. I did not really care for Rose and Finn's story, it could have been shorter on the Casino planet, but in all I liked the film.

One criticism of Solo that I do have is that it felt like they put a dark filter on the entire film. Honestly, don't evil drug lord types ever turn up the lights?

[unixknight]

1 minute ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

You make some good points, but it is all based on our personal preferences. I enjoyed that Ryan Johnson did everything exactly the opposite of what we expected. It made the film funner to watch. I did not really care for Rose and Finn's story, it could have been shorter on the Casino planet, but in all I liked the film.

One criticism of Solo that I do have is that it felt like they put a dark filter on the entire film. Honestly, don't evil drug lord types ever turn up the lights?

Well yeah, it's all about personal preference.  I mean, no film is ever universally lauded nor hated.  Some films, even bad ones, can resonate with us in ways that allow us to love them even with their flaws.  Most people hate Event Horizon, yet it's one of my favorites.  I couldn't tell you why, I just like it.  That's why I have no problem with people who love movies I dislike, or hate movies I love.  We all connect to different things.

That being said, you and I would have to agree to disagree on the wisdom of Johnson's subverting expectations.  I think it was clumsily done and feels more to me like audience trolling than clever subversion, but I bet we could have an enjoyable and friendly discussion about it.  That's what makes movies, as an art form, so great.

And yeah, Solo was dark... but in my mind I shifted it from being a Star Wars movie to a Western heist movie and that helped me to enjoy it even more, and the darkness of it didn't bother me.  I do see where it did felt very un-StarWars-y though.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

1 minute ago, unixknight said:

And yeah, Solo was dark... but in my mind I shifted it from being a Star Wars movie to a Western heist movie and that helped me to enjoy it even more, and the darkness of it didn't bother me.  I do see where it did felt very un-StarWars-y though.

The western vibe is something I really liked about it. It makes be excited for the Mandalorian later this year. I think they will be heading in a very enjoyable direction soon. I just hope we can get a new film about every 18 months or so.

[unixknight]

10 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

The western vibe is something I really liked about it. It makes be excited for the Mandalorian later this year. I think they will be heading in a very enjoyable direction soon. I just hope we can get a new film about every 18 months or so.

Are they still releasing that?  I thought Star Wars films were on pause.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

Just now, unixknight said:

Are they still releasing that?  I thought Star Wars films were on pause.

The Mandalorian and the Cassian Andor shows will be release on Disney + this fall and next year respectively. The Rian Johnson and Benioff/Weiss film trilogies are currently in the pre-production stage, but they have not been cancelled. 

[Fether]

I thought it was pretty good. The cameo st the end seemed to be nothing more than a nod to Starwars Clone Ward and Rebels fans... I was hoping for a little more

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

1 minute ago, Fether said:

I thought it was pretty good. The cameo st the end seemed to be nothing more than a nod to Starwars Clone Ward and Rebels fans... I was hoping for a little more

An in-person cameo would have been better.

[NeuroTypical]

Meanwhile, CBS pay-to-watch has three live-action Star Trek series currently playing or in production.

- Discovery, where the main character is more than a minority, more than female, this time, she's a minority female!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- A "Picard was loved, so let's give him a series or something" show!!
- In like episode 2 of Discovery, the other minority female died.  So let's give her a show focused on the years before she died.  [image: TV Exec board meeting:  "We're here to talk about what people with money like.  Minority females!  Those like those, right?"]

Shame, shame, shame on CBS for their absolute lack of a full transgender or transitioning crew of the USS Caitlyn Jenner.

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by NeuroTypical

[unixknight]

5 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Meanwhile, CBS pay-to-watch has three live-action Star Trek series currently playing or in production.

- Discovery, where the main character is more than a minority, more than female, this time, she's a minority female!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- A "Picard was loved, so let's give him a series or something" show!!
- In like episode 2 of Discovery, the other minority female died.  So let's give her a show focused on the years before she died.  [image: TV Exec board meeting:  "We're here to talk about what people with money like.  Minority females!  Those like those, right?"]

Shame, shame, shame on CBS for their absolute lack of a full transgender or transitioning crew of the USS Caitlyn Jenner.

 

I'm so torn about Discovery.  Some of it was actually pretty great, especially the big twist... but... it doesn't feel like Star Trek.  It feels like a sci fi show set in the Star Trek universe.

Trekkies will understand.

 

[Midwest LDS]

I liked Solo. It wasn't the best Star Wars movie I've ever seen, and I think several of your complaints are valid, but I left the theatre satisfied. I thought of it as a space western/heist movie, and I have to admit I liked the crazy female droid. I also loved Lando's portrayal, and I think your right he definitly stole the show. I do wish they had stretched out Han's story a little, and some of the story felt a little rushed, but I was happy with it and despite it's flaws it didn't deserve the hate it received from the fandom IMO.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Midwest LDS

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Probably because it was not a big deal at the time. But most fans that whine about the new group of films were not even born in 1983. The fandom has changed for the worse in my opinion. We should just enjoy the films or not, but going on the web and saying "I will never see Solo because I did not like episode 8" is just kind of childish, don't you think?

Again.  Completely false.

No.  It's not childish.  Star Wars is not just for children.  Star Wars is a cultural phenomenon.  People "grew up with" Star Wars.  And Star Trek.  And superheroes of the Marvel Universe or DC Universe, etc. etc.  These are iconic things that are woven into a worldwide culture separate from "Western culture", "Eastern culture", "White culture", "Black culture", etc. etc.  People spend lots and lots of money and lots and lots of time invested in Star Wars - from movies, to books, to toys, to conventions to halloween costumes, etc. etc.

For example, my children were born around the Prequels.  One child is in the Rebellion (Luke), the other child is in the Empire (Vader).  And they have grown up with Luke and Vader as icons of their childhood, playing them against each other and carrying Empire and Rebel lunchboxes and wearing Empire and Rebel shoes.  And they have their own view of how the Empire is good and how the Rebel is good and how the Empire is bad and how the Rebel is bad, etc. etc.  So, for The Last Jedi to COMPLETELY CHANGE THE ESSENCE OF LUKE... that reverberates through my kids' history.  Therefore, there's no point in supporting the rest of the Star Wars offerings because it is not the same Luke that you know.   It's not the same Jedi, it's not the same universe.  None of their bickering on Empire vs. Rebel make any sense anymore in the Disney world.

I was born around the Original Trilogy.  And Luke and Leia and Han were our heroes.  The Jedi and the Sith had rules that govern their universe.  It would have been great if Disney just threw out all the old characters and made movies of completely new characters.  But to use iconic characters and make them so unheroic... well, that would be like DC making iconic Superman, an emo.  And then for somebody to just be able to wield a lightsaber without any training at all, and even not being force sensitive... well, that ruins what makes a lightsaber special.  And to be able to wield the force without training... ugh... what's the point of all those younglings Yoda had to take from their parents?  It's nothing but stupidity one right after the other.

Edited January 15, 2019 by anatess2

[anatess2]

17 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

I liked Solo. It wasn't the best Star Wars movie I've ever seen, and I think several of your complaints are valid, but I left the theatre satisfied. I thought of it as a space western/heist movie, and I have to admit I liked the crazy female droid. I also loved Lando's portrayal, and I think your right he definitly stole the show. I do wish they had stretched out Han's story a little, and some of the story felt a little rushed, but I was happy with it and despite it's flaws it didn't deserve the hate it received from the fandom IMO.

Again, Solo was not what broke Star Wars.  The Last Jedi did.  There's no point in ANY Disney Star Wars movie when the universe is not Star Wars anymore.  It's like going to a Vegan Convention where the main offering is bacon.  What's the point in going?

[unixknight]

7 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

I was happy with it and despite it's flaws it didn't deserve the hate it received from the fandom IMO.

Agreed.  I think Solo fell victim to the backlash on Episode 8, as @Emmanuel Goldstein mentioned.  People couldn't take their money back from seeing Episode VIII, but they could refuse to pay to see another movie by the same studio.  

I think we could have done without the droid being an emblem of civil rights pandering.  I didn't hate the character, I just felt like they used her all wrong in the story.

The more I think about it, the more I think this script was a revised script for an Old Western comedy film, not unlike Maverick.  I don't mean Star Wars done in a Western style, I mean I think they took a straight Western and adapted it to Star Wars.  Not necessarily a criticism, just an observation.  

Actually... I do mean it as a criticism.  Science fiction or Science Fantasy should be stories that simply cannot be told in any other genre.  It's their strength.  It allows them to do social commentary from an entirely new and enlightening perspective that lets us see our own world in a different light.  To simply take an existing story and wrap it in a veneer of a science fantasy franchise is a waste, and ultimately I think that's what kept Solo from being awesome.

[anatess2]

By the way, just to add salt to the gaping wound.

Some guy created a Vader fan fiction mini-movie.  It's AWESOME.  Brings you back to when Star Wars was still Star Wars.  We were so excited waiting for Episode 2 that the guy promised.  He needs $100K to make Episode 2 but because of copyright stuff, he can't crowd-fund, or even monetize Episode 1 on YouTube to fund Episode 2.  So, it's been an uphill struggle for him to find the money - he's trying to do odd jobs like do video production for some Star Wars vloggers and such.

So anyway... Disney decided to claim his video because the composer that contributed to the music for the fanfic, used a few seconds of John William's score.  So now Disney monetized the YouTube video and all the money goes to... tat-tada Disney.

WE ARE ALL P.O'.D  This is just another stake stabbed in the hearts of the fandom.

[Guest Scott]

Dang guys.  It's just a movie.  You pay a few bucks and spend a few hours to see it and it may or not be good.  

If it wasn't what you expected, no harm was done.  Watching movies is usually a big time waster anyway.   

Disney owns Star Wars now.   They can do whatever they want with it and no one has to see it.  If they want to put Mickey Mouse or Goofy in it, that's their business.  

Movies are made to make money for the producers and others; that is all.   They aren't made to make everyone happy.

Solo made Disney more than $150,000 i profits.    They accomplished their goal whether or not you liked the movie. If you didn't like the movie, then they did nothing wrong.

Personally I liked Star Wars movies including Solo.   It wouldn't bother me if one of them were bad though.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Scott

[anatess2]

46 minutes ago, unixknight said:

I'm so torn about Discovery.  Some of it was actually pretty great, especially the big twist... but... it doesn't feel like Star Trek.  It feels like a sci fi show set in the Star Trek universe.

Trekkies will understand.

 

Into Darkness broke Star Trek too.  The beginning scene already put Trekkies into... whaaaat... then the ending with Khan's nano-whatevers curing Kirk was like... get outta here with that junk!  It would have been better if they kept Kirk dead and spend some time figuring out how to properly bring him back alive in the next movie.  Right now, the next movie is... tat-tada... cancelled.