Thanks, anti-vax movement...


NeuroTypical
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@SpiritDragon @Anddenex, your statistics is US only, so I can't comment much about that as I am not versed in it.  In the Philippines, though, a decline in public health vaccinations occurred in the past 2 years due to an incident of vaccine contamination that scared off parents to all vaccines.  We were at 85% vaccination rate for measles in 2014 (MMR vaccines are offered free in public health clinics all over the Philippines) and as of the beginning of 2019, we are down to 55% (interesting statistic testament of our success in live birth rates but crazy staggering at how fast vaccination herd immunity can be compromised even with free vaccines).  A measles outbreak was declared last February when 4,000+ children were found to have measles which is over 120% increase from last year and 500+% increase from 2014.  76% of these children were not vaccinated.  70 children have died in the Philippines this year alone.  You might wonder... what about adults?  Well, it's a cultural thing.  The culture is very focused on child survival rates so our statistics is geared towards them.

Now, here's the interesting thing - Australia was declared measles-free back in 2014.  This year, 11 cases of measles were found in Australia - ALL OF THEM CAME FROM THE PHILIPPINES.

This is the thing about herd immunity.  It's not as much you or your child dying of measles.  It's the survivability rate of the highly contagious virus in the area.  It has not become an epidemic in Australia like it has become in the Philippines because Australia has achieved herd immunity.  The country is hostile to the virus.

Edited by anatess2
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Guest MormonGator
16 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I was not happy with Twitter banning, 

I'm not thrilled about it either, but Twitter and Facebook are private companies. If they want to ban anti-vaxxers I'm not going to cry, given how damaging their views are. 

Edited by MormonGator
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4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I'm not thrilled about it either, but Twitter and Facebook are private companies. If they want to ban anti-vaxxers I'm not going to cry, given how damaging their views are. 

So the problem with Twitter and FB is that they're legally having their cake and eat it too.  

The phone company isn't liable for the content of anything said between people e using their service.  Ever.  At the same time, they cannot censor the content of those conversations.  Ever.  You and I could talk on the phone and plot to commit the most horrific crimes, even using the call itself in the commission of a crime, and the telephone company is completely free and clear.

On the other hand, a magazine publisher can  potentially be held responsible for their content... but they also have the right to decide what to print and what not to.

These social media platforms are having it both ways.  They're free from legal responsibility AND they choose to censor content.  This allows them to become as big, powerful and influential as they want with no restrictions of any kind on content (except for content that is illegal).

If you defend Facebook and Twitter's right to censor content, then would you also defend AT&T, Verizon or T-Mobile if they suddenly set up an algorithm to automatically disconnect phone calls that contained phrases like "I'm voting for Trump?"  What if the power company could cut power to your house because you had a campaign sign on your lawn supporting a Republican candidate?  

FB and Twitter are big enough and control enough information that I think it's time for them to see some regulation.

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On 3/14/2019 at 10:03 AM, anatess2 said:

I prefer that each individual be given EQUAL access to ALL INFORMATION - snake oil and non snake oil - and given the liberty to decide for themselves where truth lies.  This power should rest on the individual.  You want to get rid of snake oil salesmen?  Tell people why they should not listen to them.  The more people you convince, the lesser power the snake oil salesman wields.

Agreed!

I ran into a site with a bunch of quotes related to freedom of expression that I thought would be worth sharing:

Quote

If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.  - George Washington

Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.  -  John Milton

If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. - Noam Chomsky

The first principle of a free society is an untrammeled flow of words in an open forum. - Adlai E. Stevenson

A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything.  -  Napoleon Bonaparte

The only way to make sure people you agree with can speak is to support the rights of people you don't agree with. - Eleanor Holmes Norton

The very aim and end of our institutions is just this: that we may think what we like and say what we think.  -  Oliver Wendell Holmes

Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself.  -  Salman Rushdi

 

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I'm the worlds' biggest fan of our 1st amendment rights to freedom of speech.  That said, nothing in those rights was ever intended to force someone to provide someone a podium or a captive audience.   Part of being the world's biggest fan of this right, is to understand that aspect of it.  Folks who don't understand this crucial aspect of free speech, are welcome to climb the mountain of enlightenment and join me on the summit, as I stand there in my robe and long flowing white beard, arms akimbo, gazing towards the rising sun seeing secrets of the universe that lie hidden to the uninitiated.  Noam Chomsky brings tacos on Tuesdays.

I totally get the notion of how a monopoly changes things.  I'm totally down with busting them up as they come.  I'm totally down with the notion that a monopoly in this situation might take on aspects of a public forum, where banning speech would be bad.  But while Facebook, Twitter, SnapChat, Discord, Tumblr, YouTube, DeviantArt, LinkedIn, Pinterest, Instagram, Flickr, Reddit, WhatsApp, Yahoo Answers, and Quora might all have some monopoly contenders among them, nobody is there quite yet.  

So yeah, I'm tickled pink that dangerous disinformation disguised as truth is getting pulled from various private platforms like FB, YT, and Netflix.  I'm still thinking it's because the collective consciousness of America has just enough brain cells between them that it's becoming evident how horrible the anti-vax movement is, and they don't want to be a part of it any more.  The folks who own the companies see it happening, and are responding accordingly.

 

(Note of caution - don't look directly into the sun while trying the above scene - you could damage your retinas.)

Edited by NeuroTypical
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Guest MormonGator
6 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

  I'm still thinking it's because the collective consciousness of America has just enough brain cells between them that it's becoming evident how horrible the anti-vax movement is, and they don't want to be a part of it any more.  

I hope you are right. I pray you are right. The anti-vaxxine crowd does unspeakable damage. It literally costs people their lives. It stopped being funny years ago. 

Edited by MormonGator
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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

 

I totally get the notion of how a monopoly changes things.  I'm totally down with busting them up as they come.  I'm totally down with the notion that a monopoly in this situation might take on aspects of a public forum, where banning speech would be bad.  But while Facebook, Twitter, SnapChat, Discord, Tumblr, YouTube, DeviantArt, LinkedIn, Pinterest, Instagram, Flickr, Reddit, WhatsApp, Yahoo Answers, and Quora might all have some monopoly contenders among them, nobody is there quite yet.

The problem is that these companies are actively moving to crush any contenders to challenge them, by any means necessary.  Gab, an alternative to Twitter, is constantly being targeted with takedowns from hosting companies and the app is being backlisted form app stores.  When Pateron showed its true colors, a competitor started to  gain traction but then PayPal refused to process payments form them.

So while these companies technically aren't monopolies, they are circling the wagons and protecting each other so that they are effectively monopolies.  These social media giants have immense power over information.  Much more even than all the governments of the world combined.  They have demonstrated their ability, willingness and intent to manipulate information to influence the outcome of elections.  They have spoken about this openly.

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They call it SWOT.  Every business major learns it.  You've got a business, so you have Strengths and Weaknesses, and see Opportunities and Threats.  And you act accordingly.  You muscle your way around with your strengths.  You hide, fix, minimize, repair your weaknesses.  You seek Opportunities to grow and get bigger and shut out the competition.  And you identify Threats and find ways to keep them from taking your power.    It's called capitalism, and it's served us so very well over the centuries, that if you can possibly conceive of a thing you might want, just google it, and you can probably find one to buy.

Look - meat clown!

Image result for meat clown

 

So again, when a company gets so good at this that everyone else dies, it's time to bust up a monopoly.  When it's in the public best interests that only one company do it (like utilities and roads and police), then the public runs it through a series of oversight committees and regulatory agencies.  Ain't perfect.  But heck, it's a dang sight better than anything AOC and the Venezuela-copying-brigade want.

I'm all for having clear "dirty tricks and overreach" lines, vigorously enforced.  Maybe Facebook/Twitter needs some.  But that's the solution, not forcing them to air stupid anti-vax propaganda.

 

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1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm all for having clear "dirty tricks and overreach" lines, vigorously enforced.  Maybe Facebook/Twitter needs some.  But that's the solution, not forcing them to air stupid anti-vax propaganda.

Yeah it seems to me that there's fertile ground here for some kind of antitrust lawsuits to happen.  My fear is that these companies will sway public perception enough to get politicians in power who are friendly enough to them that they'll be safe and secure in their power for the forseeable future.

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58 minutes ago, unixknight said:

These social media giants have immense power over information.  Much more even than all the governments of the world combined.  They have demonstrated their ability, willingness and intent to manipulate information to influence the outcome of elections.  They have spoken about this openly.

By the way, there's something else I'm tickled pink about.  This has been, almost word for word, the going gripe since at least the mid '80's when I started to pay attention.  Except in the last few years, the bad guys have stopped being the mainstream media, and is now social media. 

We killed CNN/MSNBC/ABC/FOX/NBC!  The king is dead, long live the king!  

I really am happy about this.  Aren't you folks?

Edited by NeuroTypical
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2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

By the way, there's something else I'm tickled pink about.  This has been, word for word, the going gripe since at least the mid '80's.  Except in the last few years, the bad guys have stopped being the mainstream media, and is now social media. 

We killed CNN/MSNBC/ABC/FOX/NBC!  The king is dead, long live the king!  

I really am happy about this.  Aren't you folks?

It all just makes me want to build a cabin in the middle of nowhere end become a hermit.

Edited by unixknight
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Why did it take almost 6,000 years of human existence (by the Bible's timeline) for something as simple as Penicillin to be given to mankind?  Seems like rather than walk around the streets and heal a leper here and a blind woman there the Lord could have handed the recipe to someone.

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3 hours ago, TheRedHen said:

Why did it take almost 6,000 years of human existence (by the Bible's timeline) for something as simple as Penicillin to be given to mankind?  Seems like rather than walk around the streets and heal a leper here and a blind woman there the Lord could have handed the recipe to someone.

For the same reason a Chemistry teacher makes you perform lab experiments rather than just tell you what  happens.

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4 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

But that's the solution, not forcing them to air stupid anti-vax propaganda.

 

We're not "forcing them to air stupid anti-vax propaganda".  We're wanting them to stop engaging in socio-political biased censorship.

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4 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

By the way, there's something else I'm tickled pink about.  This has been, almost word for word, the going gripe since at least the mid '80's when I started to pay attention.  Except in the last few years, the bad guys have stopped being the mainstream media, and is now social media. 

We killed CNN/MSNBC/ABC/FOX/NBC!  The king is dead, long live the king!  

I really am happy about this.  Aren't you folks?

They're not dead.  Unfortunately.  Proof - the Alex Jones ban was instigated by CNN. 

Basically, the rabbit hole goes like this - MSM is protected by Democrats in Congress - this is mainly due to a form of nepotism where families of Democrat politicians end up in high ranking positions in MSM.  Big Tech is mainly headquartered in Silicon Valley and other predominantly urban areas where Democrat group think is rampant.  Therefore, although it is yet unclear that MSM/Democrats have a direct controlling stake in Big Tech, their predominantly Gen X urbanite controlling groups are Democrat leaning - Proof - the incident with James Damore.  Therefore, Big Tech makes their decisions using MSM narratives and designs their algorithms accordingly.

But there is one good thing - Cable is Dead and MSM is not nimble enough to adapt to the Wild West of internet-powered alternative media, so the attention they're getting in the Wild West is through manipulative algorithms.  They think streaming is their future after the death of cable - they're not learning yet that Gen X and younger don't like paying for stuff they can get for free, so alternative media is still ruled by independent creators who can run a news cycle from their kitchen tables who are just fine getting their material demonetized because they can live off of putting the equivalent of a hat on the ground.  This landscape is changing though, especially with the rise of groups such as Justice Democrats who have now realized that the left can't meme and so they need people like AOC who are walking memes.  Now MSM have some allies in the Wild West that can take their propaganda in that media.

And, of course, the attacks on "non-left conforming" independent creators like... say, Pewdepie, keeps on going.  Now he's responsible for those deaths in New Zealand.  Another thing that was not expected - the influence of such groups as Justice Democrats has caused such havoc such that now... Chelsea Clinton also got accused of killing those people in New Zealand.

Isn't life fun?

Edited by anatess2
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