mikbone Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/mormon-gay-conversion-therapist-now-choosing-pursue-life-homosexual-1299757%3famp=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Best of luck to him. Sorry he has chosen this path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 If someone were recovering from drug addiction and relapsed, we know the right response. "So sad--hope you return to recovery soon." Isn't that the appropriate response to this too? mirkwood, Midwest LDS, Just_A_Guy and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyme Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 At this point, I just come here for the laughs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 You know, as much screaming and griping as the gay community engages in about how rough it is being gay in America, you'd think they'd welcome any chance to be rid of it... I guess it isn't so rough after all... NightSG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShorty Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 @prisonchaplain: That might be a good response -- if we are assuming homosexuality is something like an addiction. My own questions and struggles with my sexuality lead me away from seeing my sexuality as an unsatisfiable addiction -- which makes it difficult for me to accept that his sexuality is some kind of addiction. That could just be me. What if our sense of sadness or betrayal or whatever we want to call it is more akin to the sadness and betrayal felt by those in the deaf community when someone gets an operation so they can enter the hearing world? What if experiencing same sex attraction is more like being deaf -- where some argue whether it is a disability or just a difference. Where some argue against "person first language" in favor of identifying as deaf. Where some argue that deafness is not a disease in need of "fixing." My hopes for him and others in the LGBT community is that they can find peace and happiness. Find, develop, and grow a relationship with God and Christ. And find and grow a relationship with a church. I would like to hope he could find a comfortable place within the LDS Church to be active. NeuroTypical 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 IIRC, this guy was initially claiming to be bisexual. Now he says he’s exclusively gay. If that’s right, then he’s living proof that sexual orientation can indeed be changed. NightSG, JohnsonJones, mirkwood and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) @MrShorty I'm not sure I understand comparing same-sex attraction to deafness. God doesn't say no to deafness. It's not a sin. God does say no to having sex with the same gender. So, if one is so attracted, celibacy seems to be an obvious first step. My understanding is that for most traditional Christians, it's the final step. A good number of same-sex attracted folk, motivated by rigorous faith, successfully resolve to be celibate. Sadly, a few states (CA and NY, I believe) have lumped in psychological therapies that would support those who choose celibacy in with discredited conversion therapies, and made them prohibited. In the past I've mentioned the good work of Drs. Throckmorton and Yarhouse. It seems that the individual who is the subject of this string was similarly involved. Edited January 25, 2019 by prisonchaplain The Folk Prophet, Just_A_Guy, Midwest LDS and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 hours ago, prisonchaplain said: @MrShorty I'm not sure I understand comparing same-sex attraction to deafness. God doesn't say no to deafness. It's not a sin. Totally agreed. Comparing desire to disability is such a nonsense philosophy. And, of course, the only support for such ideas is anecdotal. Reliable, scientific, unimpeachable anecdote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 9 hours ago, MrShorty said: Where some argue that deafness is not a disease in need of "fixing." Really? So if there was a perfect, absolute, clean and easy, simply 'fix' for deafness it shouldn't be taken advantage of? Scientists and doctors shouldn't even bother trying to come up with such a thing? Moreover, the hearing aid industry should be outlawed? 9 hours ago, MrShorty said: My hopes for him and others in the LGBT community is that they can find peace and happiness. But, of course, you know that the path to true peace and happiness doesn't involve giving in to base sexual desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 9 hours ago, MrShorty said: My hopes for him and others in the LGBT community is that they can find peace and happiness. Find, develop, and grow a relationship with God and Christ. And find and grow a relationship with a church. I would like to hope he could find a comfortable place within the LDS Church to be active. Beautifully said. Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said: Really? So if there was a perfect, absolute, clean and easy, simply 'fix' for deafness it shouldn't be taken advantage of? Scientists and doctors shouldn't even bother trying to come up with such a thing? This is exactly the attitude of many in the deaf community. It's a whole culture, you see, a beautiful, wonderful culture based on the lack of hearing. So therefore, hearing cannot be particularly good or even important. If I want my children to partake in my wonderful deaf culture, then I need to deafen them so they can be like me. Grunt, MrShorty and mordorbund 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 hours ago, prisonchaplain said: @MrShorty I'm not sure I understand comparing same-sex attraction to deafness. God doesn't say no to deafness. It's not a sin. True, but that's beside the point. We already know and acknowledge (most of us, anyway) that homosexual behavior is sinful and removes us from God's presence. That is not the issue. Rather, the issue is the experience of the thing from the perspective of the person involved. MrShorty is suggesting that perhaps the experience of being homosexual in a heterosexual society is similar in some senses to the experience of being deaf in a hearing world. I don't read this as an acceptance of homosexuality, but as an effort to understand the nature of the experience from the inside. MrShorty and prisonchaplain 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Vort said: This is exactly the attitude of many in the deaf community. It's a whole culture, you see, a beautiful, wonderful culture based on the lack of hearing. I don't doubt it. And I actually understand why they would embrace that. And I expect that if a "fix" for hearing was developed that some wouldn't partake because they've convinced themselves of such things. But it's a bit different for someone who's had their hearing and then begins losing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, Vort said: This is exactly the attitude of many in the deaf community. It's a whole culture, you see, a beautiful, wonderful culture based on the lack of hearing. So therefore, hearing cannot be particularly good or even important. If I want my children to partake in my wonderful deaf culture, then I need to deafen them so they can be like me. My children haven't chosen whether they identify as hearing or not. Colirio, zil, mirkwood and 4 others 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 15 hours ago, Grunt said: My children haven't chosen whether they identify as hearing or not. Probably depends on who's talking and what they're saying. mirkwood, Grunt and carlimac 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askandanswer Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 On 1/24/2019 at 9:29 AM, prisonchaplain said: If someone were recovering from drug addiction and relapsed, we know the right response. "So sad--hope you return to recovery soon." Isn't that the appropriate response to this too? And the even better response is "So sad - I'll help you to return to recovery soon." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Godless Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 7:55 PM, unixknight said: You know, as much screaming and griping as the gay community engages in about how rough it is being gay in America, you'd think they'd welcome any chance to be rid of it... I guess it isn't so rough after all... It's important to understand that LGBTQ people view sexual orientation (and its baggage) as a biological identifier, like race/skin color. Despite the hardships they sometimes face in our society, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find POC who would want to change their skin color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 33 minutes ago, Godless said: It's important to understand that LGBTQ people view sexual orientation (and its baggage) as a biological identifier, like race/skin color. Despite the hardships they sometimes face in our society, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find POC who would want to change their skin color. Believe me, brother. I am painfully well aware that that's the way they see it. Anybody who has watched more than 10 minutes of television can't help but be fully versed in the subject these days. (Yes, I'm exaggerating to make a point.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Godless said: It's important to understand that LGBTQ people view sexual orientation (and its baggage) as a biological identifier, like race/skin color. Despite the hardships they sometimes face in our society, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find POC who would want to change their skin color. Black people bleach their skin or have skin lightening make-up. http://theconversation.com/black-americas-bleaching-syndrome-82200 https://www.marieclaire.com/beauty/a27678/skin-bleaching-epidemic-in-jamaica/ White people go to tanning salons. Meanwhile us Asians are wondering what the hype is about. Edited January 26, 2019 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnsonJones Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Carborendum said: Black people bleach their skin or have skin lightening make-up. http://theconversation.com/black-americas-bleaching-syndrome-82200 https://www.marieclaire.com/beauty/a27678/skin-bleaching-epidemic-in-jamaica/ White people go to tanning salons. Meanwhile us Asians are wondering what the hype is about. I thought at least some Asians (the Korean Whitening Cream market for example) were very much into the whitening creams. It sounds like it is a slightly different type of hype? Quick google search shows https://www.nylonpink.tv/best-korean-whitening-cream-give-even-radiant-skin/ Quote Koreans and Asians alike love their whitening creams. Whitening creams aren't used in Korea to make your skin whiter, although Koreans do prefer lighter skin. Whitening creams are actually used to even out the skin tone, brighten dull skin, fade skin blemishes, and increase your glow and luminosity. We've already featured the best toners and serums, now check out our list of our top 10 favorite Korean whitening products https://www.femalemag.com.sg/beauty/korean-whitening-creams-facial/ Quote Returning from your summer beach vacation three shades darker? Not to worry – here are the Korean whitening facial creams that will give you brighter, clearer and more youthful-looking skin in an instant: Even Amazon seems to have a list of these things (or at least it turned up on a Google search, not sure why it was one of the top links to be honest). https://www.amazon.com/slp/korean-whitening-skin-care-products/myzytbh9mfs377n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 hours ago, JohnsonJones said: I thought at least some Asians (the Korean Whitening Cream market for example) were very much into the whitening creams. It sounds like it is a slightly different type of hype? Quick google search shows https://www.nylonpink.tv/best-korean-whitening-cream-give-even-radiant-skin/ https://www.femalemag.com.sg/beauty/korean-whitening-creams-facial/ Even Amazon seems to have a list of these things (or at least it turned up on a Google search, not sure why it was one of the top links to be honest). https://www.amazon.com/slp/korean-whitening-skin-care-products/myzytbh9mfs377n It's true. I was making a joke. Actually, one of the "games" that we played as kids was that we'd stand in a circle and stick our hands in the middle to see who had the lightest skin. Yes, the lightest skin won. This was in Korea with all Korean kids. I always had the darkest skin and my sister always had the lightest. All the neighborhood kids had different shades. Now, here's the stupid part. After we found out who won, we'd do it again to see who would win. And to everyone's surprise, the same person would win. I don't know what that was about. We were all under maybe 8 years old. So, blame it on stupidity of youth. But, yeah, light skin won there. I don't know what that was about. But I don't think we lived in an area with educated people. Here's why: I remember trying to wash my hands very thoroughly. And my family wondered why. I told them. Some of the family shrugged their shoulders and thought it would work. But one of my brothers told me, it doesn't work that way. He was the only one who told me that. I was about 3 or 4 y.o. so, what did I know? But all the adults didn't know what caused skin to darken or lighten? I dunno. That was many decades ago. Korea has come a long way with education. But apparently, they still value light skin. On a related note, plastic surgery has really taken off in Korea. And the fad is to look like the same person. As I understand it, there were several actresses that were considered the epitome of Korean beauty. Not only that, but they all looked somewhat similar. Being of a highly homogenous gene pool, it is easy to understand. But many women in Korea are getting surgery to look like these women. Now people really will be justified in saying all Koreans look alike... at least the women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlimac Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 Does anyone know what the latest research is on " Born that way" ? I thought there were no conclusions. No scientific evidence. And yet this seems to be the pat answer from the LGBT community- It's cruel to try to change what someone is, what they have always been from birth. Did I miss a big announcement somewhere along the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, carlimac said: It's cruel to try to change what someone is, what they have always been from birth. It doesn't really matter if one is born that way or not Have you ever dyed/bleached your hair? Used lipstick? Makeup? Nail polish? What do you think of transgenderism? Edited January 27, 2019 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShorty Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 I thought there were no conclusions. No scientific evidence. My impression as a lay person is that there is a lot of evidence that homosexuality is somehow heritable. There seems to be very little confirmable details into the exact mechanisms of the inheritance -- they have failed to find a "gay gene", for example. It might depend exactly what you mean by "conculsions" and "evidence". Right now, it seems that there is enough good evidence that homosexuality is heritable for most to agree that there is at least a heritable component to homosexuality. However, we are a long ways from a final conclusion where we can explain the exact mechanisms and interactions between genetic factors and in utero factors and post natal factors that cause homosexuality. I recognize that Wikipedia is far from an impeccable source, but there is a decent discussion here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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