Celestial Kingdom

[mikbone]

Is it a physical location?  Or is it a state of glory.

It appears that Elohim's abode is near a star named Kolob.  Abraham 3:2-3

When this Earth is Celestialized it will be Jehovah's, and I assume that those who gain exaltation and eternal life will be welcome to live with Jesus Christ here on Earth.

But eventually those children of Jehovah will start creating worlds of their own, under the guidance of Jehovah.  And they will make their own Celestial Kingdoms.

The Universe is vast.  

Edited January 25, 2019 by mikbone

[Jane_Doe]

*Jane puts up her sign post "This is 1000% in the speculation-for-with-no-practical-application territory." *

Ok, now that we know where we are, my personal belief here is that is is much more a state of being rather than an address to mail Christmas cards to.  

[CV75]

18 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Is it a location?  Or is it a state.

It appears that Elohim's abode is near a star named Kolob.  Abraham 3:2-3

When this Earth is Celestialized it will be Jehovah's, and I assume that those who gain exaltation and eternal life will be welcome to live with Jesus Christ here on Earth.

But eventually those children of Jehovah will start creating worlds of their own, under the guidance of Jehovah.  And they will make their own Celestial Kingdoms.

The Universe is vast.  

I think “near unto” and “after the manner of” convey both location and other quantitatives as well as state and other qualitatives, and the phrases can be used interchangeably.

I think the oneness Jesus prayed for in John 17 continues irrespective of location but not of state. Exalted persons continue to be networked with Christ and the Father no matter where else we might find ourselves or be standing in the midst of.

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

I think God the Father exists outside of our Universe. I don't think we can ever come close to understanding the state in which he lives until we have reached it ourselves. The Multiverse is beyond our comprehension because we are now existing inside this space-time continuum. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

Is it a location?  Or is it a state.

I don't see why this is an either/or question.

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

Is it a location?  Or is it a state.

It appears that Elohim's abode is near a star named Kolob.  Abraham 3:2-3

When this Earth is Celestialized it will be Jehovah's, and I assume that those who gain exaltation and eternal life will be welcome to live with Jesus Christ here on Earth.

But eventually those children of Jehovah will start creating worlds of their own, under the guidance of Jehovah.  And they will make their own Celestial Kingdoms.

The Universe is vast.  

It's a location. But, the location also has requirements for the state of being one is in.

[mikbone]

40 years ago this question would not have been answered with words like networking, multiverse, or space-time continuum.

It was only 90 years ago that we discovered that there were galaxies other than the milky-way.  

As we continue to progress in science, do you see our understanding of God to continue to evolve? 

 

Out of curiosity, and obviously this is an esoteric question...  When the scriptures state that Jehovah created worlds without number, do you think that He created the known Universe, or just the Milky-Way galaxy, or some other geographic designation (arm of our Galaxy, Supercluster)?  

Edited January 25, 2019 by mikbone

[Rob Osborn]

34 minutes ago, mikbone said:

40 years ago this question would not have been answered with words like networking, multiverse, or space-time continuum.

It was only 90 years ago that we discovered that there were galaxies other than the milky-way.  

As we continue to progress in science, do you see our understanding of God to continue to evolve? 

 

Out of curiosity, and obviously this is an esoteric question...  When the scriptures state that Jehovah created worlds without number, do you think that He created the known Universe, or just the Milky-Way galaxy, or some other geographic designation (arm of ourGalaxy, Supercluster)?  

I think God created part of the universe, not all of it. World's without number is another way of saying "a lot" not that it truly means an infinite amount.

[bytebear]

40 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Out of curiosity, and obviously this is an esoteric question...  When the scriptures state that Jehovah created worlds without number, do you think that He created the known Universe, or just the Milky-Way galaxy, or some other geographic designation (arm of ourGalaxy, Supercluster)?  

I think that God the Father created worlds without end, and i am maybe in the minority that believes that each earth has a savior, and that the story of pre-mortality only involved the people of this Earth, and not of God's other creations.  I am not arrogant enough to think we are lucky enough to have been assigned the one Earth in the vast universe to be the epicenter for the fall of Man via Adam and Eve and the assignment of a savior.

Moses Chapter 1 says:

 

Quote

 

33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.

35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.

 

So how do I reconcile "by my Son"?  I interpret it to mean, by the savior of that inhabitable planet, and that Moses was still under the restriction of "only an account of this earth" and didn't need to understand how Adams and saviors fit in the larger scheme of the Father's power.

So, to answer your question, I would say our savior created many worlds, but only one that is inhabited by (a portion of) God's children.
 

Edited January 25, 2019 by bytebear

[Jersey Boy]

3 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

*Jane puts up her sign post "This is 1000% in the speculation-for-with-no-practical-application territory." *

Ok, now that we know where we are, my personal belief here is that is is much more a state of being rather than an address to mail Christmas cards to.  

So do you believe God exists in a realm of pure thought and that his throne is merely symbolic and not an actual seat of power located on a celestialized planet, similar to what our earth is going to become after the final judgement?

[mikbone]

6 minutes ago, bytebear said:

I think that God the Father created worlds without end, and i am maybe in the minority that believes that each earth has a savior, and that the story of pre-mortality only involved the people of this Earth, and not of God's other creations.  I am not arrogant enough to think we are lucky enough to have been assigned the one Earth in the vast universe to be the epicenter for the fall of Man via Adam and Eve and the assignment of a savior.

Moses Chapter 1 says:

 

So how do I reconcile "by my Son"?  I interpret it to mean, by the savior of that inhabitable planet, and that Moses was still under the restriction of "only an account of this earth" and didn't need to understand how Adams and saviors fit in the larger scheme of the Father's power.

So, to answer your question, I would say our savior created many worlds, but only one that is inhabited by (a portion of) God's children.
 

I think that I have an understanding that is similar to yours.  I may be wrong though.

I think that Elohim is likely an Architect that oversees the construction of many Carpenters.  

I'm not sure about how much area each Carpenter's influences though. 

Quote

Now this Enoch God reserved unto Himself, that he should not die at that time, and appointed unto him a ministry unto terrestrial bodies, of whom there has been but little revealed. . . . He [Enoch] is a ministering angel, to minister to those who shall be heirs of salvation and appeared unto Jude as Abel did unto Paul; therefore Jude spoke of him (History of the Church, 4:209).  

If Enoch is a ministering angel to other terrestrial bodies that it seems likely that these worlds are also under the influence of Jehovah's Atonement.  

[bytebear]

Since God is a physical being,I can only assume he resides in a physical realm.

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, Jersey Boy said:

So do you believe God exists in a realm of pure thought and that his throne is merely symbolic and not an actual seat of power located on a celestialized planet, similar to what our earth is going to become after the final judgement?

I would not phrase things that way.  I would more phrase in that being exalted and being in the Celestial kingdom is about *being*-- your character, mindset, etc,   much more than it is about living in some exclusive gated fancy neighborhood of fancy houses.  Obviously an exalted person is still going to physically be located somewhere, but that physical address isn't really the focus/defining factor.  

Edited January 25, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[Jersey Boy]

44 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

I would not phrase things that way.  I would more phrase in that being exalted and being in the Celestial kingdom is about *being*-- your character, mindset, etc,   much more than it is about living in some exclusive gated fancy neighborhood of fancy houses.  Obviously an exalted person is still going to physically be located somewhere, but that physical address isn't really the focus/defining factor.  

Does the following description of God’s abode, taken from D&C 131, harmonize with your thinking?

7 But they (the angels) reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord.

8 The place where God resides is a great Urim and Thimmim.

9 This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s. (D&C 131)

From the above description of God’s heavenly dwelling place and the nature of the future celestialized earth, it appears celestial kingdoms are designed to perform specific important functions to assist divine beings in the accomplishment of God’s will. It appears the glorified worlds where resurrected beings dwell are much more than just  “fancy addresses.”

 

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Jersey Boy

[JohnsonJones]

It could have multiple meanings. 

For example, is there a House of the Lord here on this Earth.  Where is it?

Does he dwell there?  Does his Spirit.

It is possible that he dwells exactly where the scriptures state he dwells in our universe, but also has other definitions of where he dwells. 

It may also mean something other than is being read in this thread.

I think it was @Traveler who extrapolated on this at some point in the past (though I could be mistaken) in regards to this specific scripture related in the Original Post.

[Fifthziff]

On 1/24/2019 at 1:45 PM, mikbone said:

Is it a physical location?  Or is it a state of glory.

It appears that Elohim's abode is near a star named Kolob.  Abraham 3:2-3

When this Earth is Celestialized it will be Jehovah's, and I assume that those who gain exaltation and eternal life will be welcome to live with Jesus Christ here on Earth.

But eventually those children of Jehovah will start creating worlds of their own, under the guidance of Jehovah.  And they will make their own Celestial Kingdoms.

The Universe is vast.  

What Abraham 3:2-3 is referring to is unknown.  We say the word "star" but we don't know what that is because we are told that the realm we are currently in is made of a different matter than those things that are spiritual.  Which means they are of a, likely, different physics and chemistry and mechanics than what we are familiar with here. 

[Phineas]

On 1/24/2019 at 1:45 PM, mikbone said:

Is it a physical location?  Or is it a state of glory.

It appears that Elohim's abode is near a star named Kolob.  Abraham 3:2-3

When this Earth is Celestialized it will be Jehovah's, and I assume that those who gain exaltation and eternal life will be welcome to live with Jesus Christ here on Earth.

But eventually those children of Jehovah will start creating worlds of their own, under the guidance of Jehovah.  And they will make their own Celestial Kingdoms.

The Universe is vast.  

It’s a state of being.  We can live a celestial life here on this earth.  

[Rob Osborn]

14 minutes ago, Phineas said:

It’s a state of being.  We can live a celestial life here on this earth.  

I would disagree to a degree. It's impossible to live a Celestial life without having a fulness of joy. That is only obtained when the spirit and body are inseparably connected after resurrection.

[Starwatcher]

On 1/25/2019 at 12:22 AM, mikbone said:

40 years ago this question would not have been answered with words like networking, multiverse, or space-time continuum.

It was only 90 years ago that we discovered that there were galaxies other than the milky-way.  

As we continue to progress in science, do you see our understanding of God to continue to evolve? 

Probably

On 1/25/2019 at 12:22 AM, mikbone said:

 

Out of curiosity, and obviously this is an esoteric question...  When the scriptures state that Jehovah created worlds without number, do you think that He created the known Universe, or just the Milky-Way galaxy, or some other geographic designation (arm of our Galaxy, Supercluster)?  

They are worlds without number, but He said that he could number them, because they are his. We can't number them, because we can't see them all.

Moses 1:35 - But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.

Since our Milky Way galaxy will meet and merge with the Andromeda galaxy in a couple billion years, it seems unlikely that Father's realm extends only to the Milky Way.

I am convinced that Father's kingdom consists of the known (and unknown universe).  And that He was the one who initiated the Big Bang.

[mikbone]

13 minutes ago, Starwatcher said:

Since our Milky Way galaxy will meet and merge with the Andromeda galaxy in a couple billion years, it seems unlikely that Father's realm extends only to the Milky Way.

I am convinced that Father's kingdom consists of the known (and unknown universe).  And that He was the one who initiated the Big Bang.

Totally reasonable answer.  But my original question was: how much did Jehovah create? (as opposed to Heavenly Father).

And didn’t Heavenly Father create spiritually?  

And out of curiosity, is your scope bigger than my 18” Obsession?

Edited February 2, 2019 by mikbone

[Starwatcher]

Just now, mikbone said:

Totally reasonable answer.  But my original question was: how much did Jehovah create? (as opposed to Heavenly Father).

Heck, who knows?  I sure don't, but when I write that I think Jehovah only created this earth/solar system, I am uncomfortable with it.  I do not believe that this kind of information is something we are intended to know at this time.  Because we don't need to know.

Just now, mikbone said:

And didn’t Heavenly Father create spiritually?  

He created US spiritually.  Although one is perhaps reminded that spiritual and temporal are the same to the Father.  I believe that Father called forth the Universe, and it was initially matter unorganized.  Much of it is still matter unorganized, but over time it becomes organized, as need for organization grows.