Long fasting


Vort
 Share

Recommended Posts

Most Latter-day Saints have at least attempted to fast for 24 hours, which in LDS tradition means to go without both food and drink (including water) for a 24-hour period. When this kind of a fast is actually done, it typically starts Saturday afternoon with a lunch, ending at e.g. 2:00 pm. The Latter-day Saint then quits eating or drinking until 2:00 pm Sunday, when s/he eats lunch perhaps a few minutes later than normal. Voilà! A 24-hour fast.

It's actually a very simple fast, as fasts go, and within the capability of literally almost every Latter-day Saint. Now, many Latter-day Saints don't actually fast, or don't fast for 24 hours, because it "feels bad". It makes us feel "sick". We get a "headache". I've shared President Woodruff's quote about that before. Here it is again, in case anyone's interested:

Quote

It was remarked this morning that some people said they could not fast because it made their head ache. Well, I can fast, and so can any other man; and if it makes my head ache by keeping the commandments of God, let it ache.

Too often, I have found myself not participating in a 24-hour fast for one lame reason or another, ranging from "I don't feel well" to "I forgot" to "I need to take this antihistamine" to "my wife will be upset if I don't eat the Saturday night dinner she fixed". Pathetic. One of my goals for this year is to complete (and enjoy) a true 24-hour fast at least once per month on Fast Sunday.

Truth be told, a 24-hour fast is nothing. Literally, I think the majority of our ancestors would not have considered going without food for a day even to have constituted a true fast. Why not? Because skipping food for a day or two was a common occurrence in people's lives before the modern era. Sure, people got hungry when they didn't eat. But hunger is not starvation. When we say we're "starving", we're using hyperbole, even if most of us don't realize it. If there is one thing we obese Americans do not suffer from, it's starvation. On the contrary, we're overfed. We eat too much and too often.

For these reasons, I believe that the LDS fast is a precious gift given us by a Father in heaven who knows our particular needs and challenges.

But this post is not actually about what we might call "religious fasting", that 24-hour period that (usually) includes the first Sunday of the month and entails going without food or drink. People do that (or do not do it) according to their desires and willingness to subject themselves to some discomfort* in return for spiritual and physical benefit. Rather, I'm talking about something I've been referring to as "long fasting", which I believe is much more in line with historical ideas of fasting.

[*By the way, I dispute the "discomfort" of fasting. I believe that is merely a wrong perception on our part, a perception that can quite easily be changed. Ten or so years ago, I went to take care of my parents for a week, both of whom were convalescing after surgery. I offered my mother a foot rub, which to my surprise she said she had never received before. I told her how wonderful it felt, and started massaging her feet. She said it hurt. I toned down my massage until I was barely rubbing her feet at all. She hated it; it caused her pain. That experience opened my eyes, and I soon came to realize that almost any experience that is new to us will be perceived as uncomfortable. If it's a physical sensation such as a massage, it will feel painful, because we have no experience with the sensation, and our body perceives all new or non-normal sensations as painful. So it is with fasting; it's "painful" to us because we are not used to how it feels. We think our joints feel "achy" because we are not used to the increased sensitivity that fasting brings about; when we are used to it, we realize that our joints aren't achy, they just don't feel the same. Truth be told, it's actually a pleasant, relaxed feeling, once we get used to it. As for the headaches that so commonly accompany a fast, in my experience that is merely a matter of habituation. When I first started taking fasting seriously years ago, I would get headaches, sometimes pretty bad, and even stomach aches (ironically) from fasting. After fasting a small number of times, maybe six or fewer, those symptoms went away. My body realized that fasting was not starvation, adapted to the blood sugar change (or whatever was going on), and I haven't had a headache from fasting since that time.]

In the waning year of WWII, the US Army did a study on low-calorie (starvation) diets in preparation for what they foresaw as a real possibility of mass starvation in Europe and elsewhere. Thirty-six volunteers were chosen and given a twelve-week "control period", where they were fed 3200 calories per day. This was followed by a 24-week "semi-starvation period", where their calories were cut in half, about 1560 per day. This was followed by a couple of extended "recovery periods". The results of the "semi-starvation" part were sobering,if not exactly shocking. From Wikipedia:

Quote

Among the conclusions from the study was the confirmation that prolonged semi-starvation produces significant increases in depression, hysteria and hypochondriasis as measured using the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory. Indeed, most of the subjects experienced periods of severe emotional distress and depression. There were extreme reactions to the psychological effects during the experiment including self-mutilation (one subject amputated three fingers of his hand with an axe, though the subject was unsure if he had done so intentionally or accidentally). Participants exhibited a preoccupation with food, both during the starvation period and the rehabilitation phase. Sexual interest was drastically reduced, and the volunteers showed signs of social withdrawal and isolation. The participants reported a decline in concentration, comprehension and judgment capabilities, although the standardized tests administered showed no actual signs of diminished capacity. This ought not, however, to be taken as an indication that capacity to work, study and learn will not be affected by starvation or intensive dieting. There were marked declines in physiological processes indicative of decreases in each subject's basal metabolic rate (the energy required by the body in a state of rest), reflected in reduced body temperature, respiration and heart rate. Some of the subjects exhibited edema in their extremities, presumably due to decreased levels of plasma proteins given that the body's ability to construct key proteins like albumin is based on available energy sources.

Compare this to Upton Sinclair's The Fasting Cure (downloadable PDF), written in the early 20th century. Sinclair experienced no starvation at all. He simply quit eating for extended periods, a week or more at a time. (Note that Sinclair drank water; this was a traditional "food fast", not an LDS-style "food and drink fast".) After a couple of days, all feelings of hunger vanished, and he felt fine. He was able to work and continue as normal. Eventually, his hunger returned, at which point he ate again.

I find this remarkable. Completely giving up eating for a period of time is much healthier, and actually much easier and more comfortable, than going on a calorie-restricted diet. That seems counterintuitive, but maybe it makes good sense; your body might find it easier to shift into a "no-food" state than to be in a constant "food state" and not get enough food. With these and other thoughts on my mind, I have been toying with the idea of "long fasting" for a year or so now.

Last week, I was fasting for a specific purpose, and decided to stretch that out just a bit to see what would happen. I ate a late dinner Thursday night, then stopped eating on Friday and did a traditional "religious" fast, no food or drink for a day. It went fine, very normal for 24-hour fast. I felt the sensation that, throughout my life, I have identified as "hunger". But it wasn't overwhelming, and frankly it wasn't that hard to ignore. I didn't really get thirsty at all—though note that (1) I did drink a few glasses of water before going to bed on Thursday, so I had "tanked up"; and (2) I live near Seattle, and it's wintertime, so heat and sweaty conditions weren't anything I had to contend with.

In any case, I got up at the normal time Friday morning, worked a normal day, then spent the evening drywalling my basement—moderate physical activity, not high exertion, but lots of standing, stretching, bending over, picking things up, climbing up and down a ladder, etc. More than just sitting watching TV. Friday night came, and I felt fine, pretty much normal after a regular 24-hour fast. I broke my fast with prayer, but decided to continue food-fasting just to see what might happen. So I drank a glass of water (maybe it was two glasses) and shortly went to bed.

Saturday morning came, and I felt okay. Not exactly filled with energy, but not bad by any means. It was a busy Saturday in the basement putting up drywall, and that went on more or less all day, interspersed with a few periods (maybe an hour or ninety minutes in total) of checking my email (and the TH forum 😁) and other such things, as well as helping a neighbor with pressure washing. Late Saturday afternoon, after a day of moderate (not strenuous) physical activity, I felt...well, I felt fine. I wasn't really hungry, not in any meaningful sense. My body wanted to eat, but I was not craving food and weak with hunger or anything like that. I could certainly have continued fasting. It was after 5:00 pm, so probably around 44 hours since I had last eaten—less than two days, so not a heroic fast by any means, but longer than a "normal" fast. It was almost certainly the longest period I had ever gone without solid food since infancy, and the longest I had gone without ingesting nutritious food in my entire life.

And I felt fine. Seriously, no problem. Not really "weak", but relaxed, sort of "in touch" with my body.

I decided to break my fast at that point for two reasons: First, I had thought my wife and I might be going out to eat (we didn't), and I didn't want to break my fast at a restaurant where I would end up eating like a bird. (Post-fasting meals for me are usually quite small; I can't eat much after fasting before feeling full.) Second, Fast Sunday was to start in a week, and I didn't want to be doing a "long fast" that would end within days of beginning a traditional fast. In addition I wanted to make sure I was in good shape for work on Monday (today); this "long fasting" business is new to me, and I don't want to throw a wrench into the works of my daily life while tinkering with it. So I ate a bowl of Cream of Wheat and drank a can of soda pop. An inglorious end to my first tentative exploration of fasting beyond the traditional 24-hour LDS fast, perhaps, but still a useful and interesting experience. I plan to continue pursuing this effort and see what fruits come of it.

An interesting side effect: I lost a good three pounds during that short time. I weighed myself a few hours after breaking my fast, and was fully hydrated, so little if any of that three pounds was water-loss weight due to dehydration. The numbers don't really work out for having lost three pounds; a half-pound of fat should give the average man sufficient metabolic energy for a day's living and light labor, so even a two-day fast should not have moved my weight by more than a pound. So I'm not sure what was going on there, but I was three pounds down from my immediate pre-fast weight. That continued even on Sunday evening (last night), when my weight was still the same as post-fasting.

Anyone else have any experience with what I'm calling "long fasting"? Any other "regular fasting" experiences worth sharing? I put this in the "General discussion" forum instead of the "LDS forum" because it's not specifically about religious fasting, but I'm interested to hear any experiences with fasting that others have to share, religious or otherwise.

Edited by Vort
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently commented on this earlier, but I am fasting weekly now for health benefits. But a fast just focused on health includes drinking water. So to make it spiritual, I remove the water too.

I completed a 24 hour fast last Wednesday and I was fasting for success as I traveled to California for a week of work. So far it has been the most beneficial trips I have made for work. All credit goes to God.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Interesting.  I wonder how that would work for me considering how often I'm at the gym.  I struggle with the lack of water on fast days as it is.

In case it wasn't clear, this idea of a "long fast" does include drinking water (but nothing else).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I fasted for 4+ days, preparing to receive my patriarchical blessing and searching for a testimony.  Lots of praying.  I also drank plenty of water after the first day or two, especially because I was spending some time working in a hot kitchen environment and sweating.  I was a candymaker at the time, but I was used to the smell of chocolate, and it didn't bug me.  2-3 days into it I almost busted my fast - I "cheated" by filling a glass with ice, then filling the glass with OJ and then pouring it back into the jug, then sucking on the ice.  I was amazed at how good it tasted, then before I knew what I was doing, I poured and drank an entire glass of juice.  

The PB was a pivotal lifechanging moment, but although I have to read it to remember what's in it, I have a crystal clear memory of the 3 pieces of leftover Schlotzkys garlic chicken pizza I ate 7 minutes later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I tried keto I often did 1 meal a day, making 24 hours between eating a common occurrence. It surprised me how easy it was and made me realize how much lack of liquid was what made fasting on fast Sundays hard.

I don't know if that has anything to do with long fasting. I've never gone more than 24 hours...and don't plan to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

When I tried keto I often did 1 meal a day, making 24 hours between eating a common occurrence. It surprised me how easy it was and made me realize how much lack of liquid was what made fasting on fast Sundays hard.

I don't know if that has anything to do with long fasting. I've never gone more than 24 hours...and don't plan to.

That's been my experience as well. I am not on keto, but I can honestly say it's going without liquid that makes fasting difficult for me, not going without food. The longest I have fasted is 36 hours but I only did it that long once.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the mission I did a 2, 3, & 4 day fast.  No food or water.  After day 2, I wasnt hungry anymore but weakness became an issue.  And day 4 orthostatic hypotension was a problem (if I didn’t get up slowly from a lying or seated position I would start to black out).  So you get up slowly.  I remember using mouthwash and brushing my teeth alot more often because of the ketosis halitosis. 

On the final 4 day fast I notified my companion on the Tuesday the day before I started the fast, and he decided to do it with me.  I thought that he was a kinda ‘soft’ guy, but he rocked it without complaint.

All the fasts ended on Sunday with the Sacrament.  It does make the spirit stronger when the flesh is weak.

I haven’t had the desire or felt the need for a prolonged fast since.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Vort said:

Most Latter-day Saints have at least attempted to fast for 24 hours, which in LDS tradition means to go without both food and drink (including water) for a 24-hour period. When this kind of a fast is actually done, it typically starts Saturday afternoon with a lunch, ending at e.g. 2:00 pm. The Latter-day Saint then quits eating or drinking until 2:00 pm Sunday, when s/he eats lunch perhaps a few minutes later than normal. Voilà! A 24-hour fast.

.........

Truth be told, a 24-hour fast is nothing. Literally, I think the majority of our ancestors would not have considered going without food for a day even to have constituted a true fast. Why not? Because skipping food for a day or two was a common occurrence in people's lives before the modern era. Sure, people got hungry when they didn't eat. But hunger is not starvation. When we say we're "starving", we're using hyperbole, even if most of us don't realize it. If there is one thing we obese Americans do not suffer from, it's starvation. On the contrary, we're overfed. We eat too much and too often.

For these reasons, I believe that the LDS fast is a precious gift given us by a Father in heaven who knows our particular needs and challenges.

I'm not sure if everyone is aware of the history behind the implementation of the 24 hour fast in our church, but here it is briefly in case anyone is interested.   It is a good reminder of what the fast really is for, from a temporal as well as spiritual aspect. 

It has been a while since I have read our Church History, but here are the basics of the story.

The fast was implemented by Brigham Young.  In the early days of the Church in the Salt Lake Valley, there were many immigrants coming into the Salt Lake Valley.   Since the journey took several months, many of them were low on food by the time they reached the valley.  The Saints were commanded to give their surplus of food and goods to the Bishop's Storehouse and this was meant to help the Saints who were low on food and goods, either from the immigration into the valley or for other reasons. 

Brigham knew that the saints had been giving food and goods to stock the storehouse, so he was surprised when one of the saints commented to Brigham Young and said that there wasn't that much food in the storehouse.   Brigham Young was not happy and went to chastise the Bishop of the Church (a Bishop was in charge of the storehouse), but the bishop showed Brigham Young the contents of the storehouse and said that the problem was with Brigham's usage of the word "surplus" and what the saints were considering to be their "surplus".  

Many of the saints were giving the "surplus" they didn't want or need to the Bishop's Storehouse.   It was things like a very old cow that wasn't good for much, worn out plowing equipment, old grain, etc.  

Brigham Young called a special Church conference for the next church meeting and chastise the saints saying that they completely missed the spirit of the commandment which was given to give your surplus to the Bishop's Storehouse.   He said that from this day on the saints were to fast for 24 hours every month and to give the best of the food that they could have eaten that day.  Going without food was supposed to be a reminder of those who were going hungry.  

That's where the fast offering and fast Sunday implementation came from. 

Now days, it's easy to forget that we are supposed to give our best on that day.  It's much easier to just go without the food for a day and write our fast offering checks. 

Edited by Scott
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you've been following the weight loss group discussion, I've been eating 2 or 3 eggs for two meals a day.  Then I've been eating a normal dinner.  I usually ate about twice as much as an average person for dinner.   So, I went from what I'd estimate at 2500 calories per day down to 1000 to 1200 calories per day.

I am not as hyper as I usually am, but I'm finding myself a lot more aware than normal.  I'm better able to focus. 

I haven't noticed any of the side effects that are mentioned in that Army study with the reduced diet.  I wonder what the details were.  What did they eat?  Did they still get all the nutrients?  Did they get enough sleep.  I'd imagine their physical activity rate was still much higher than mine.  I'd also imagine that most of these men were already in top physical condition with low body fat. 

I was about 25 lbs overweight when I started.  If I were to compare myself to a highly-fit athlete, I was about 30 lbs overweight.  So, maybe I'm ok on this type of diet because I have the extra flab to burn off.  I've now lost about 12 lbs.  I figure another 13 to go.  But I'm at the stage where the easy stuff is gone.  Now, we're going 1 lb at a time.  We'll see how things go.

I also had a very meaningful 24 hr fast only once.  Most of the time, I'm looking at the clock like What About Bob, just waiting for the 24 hours to end.  Or I take a nap to try to ignore the hunger pangs.  But this one day I decided that I was going to make it truly meaningful.

I had spent the week prior deciding what my "purpose" would be.  I found one that was pretty important.  Although, it eludes me right now.

I decided that I'd pray about every talk I heard in sacrament and every comment in Sunday School and priesthood.

I also did not take a nap, but did some scripture study.

I then went and prepared my food "with singleness of heart".  I wasn't yearning for it.  I was thinking of how to get it done right so that my children would enjoy it.

It took a LOT of effort and concentration.  But at around 20 hours or so, I felt something really peaceful.  I've often called it a "floaty" feeling.  It was almost like I was on drugs.  (I'm comparing it to some prescription drugs I've had to take a few times in my life).  It was an interesting experience.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been pregnant and/or breastfeeding for 4 years. I haven't fasted since before then. My husband likes to joke that I was going to nurse our last baby until kindergarten to avoid fasting.  I get weak and have blood sugar problems when fasting.  I struggle with it.

   Growing up, it was more thatyou skipped breakfast and lunch. There was never a start prayer or anything. I felt like I was starving for no reason.  We were forced to fast and it left a bad taste in my mouth about fasting. I am working on trying to figure out what I want to do for me. Not just because I was told I had to do it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is an area where I need to do better. The primary source of my failures (or so I claim) is that I will eat a small breakfast on Saturday, before starting my weekend activities, whatever they may be. I then often neglect to eat again until the evening. At the point, after a day of hard labor, I'm already weary and deteriorated, but still don't enjoy eating much in one setting, and so I don't eat enough to fully replenish. If I then try to fast, I quickly become irritable and snippy at church, which doesn't really help anyone.

Those aren't good reasons not to fast. Just the pattern I have noticed. A couple of years ago for Lent, I committed myself to carefully plan my days around fasting so that I would be adequately nourished when I started. I recall my fasting experience being much improved, but haven't maintained the habit.

I don't see myself completing a long fast anytime soon.  I have a history of getting weak after about 22 hours. I recall once as a missionary being pressured and guilted into a full 24 hour fast, as I normally broke it after about 16 hours. He apologized to me when I nearly fainted after 20 hours. But I admire the self control to accomplish such a feat. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a Catholic, I would abstain from something for the 40 days before Easter (usually abstain from eating meat) and fast from food starting Palm Sunday that will be broken on Easter morning.  I don't fast from water and I don't fast from daily vitamins.  I stopped this practice after I got baptized LDS.

The longest I've gone without food is 10 days.  But I've never gone without water for more than 24 hours.  When I did the 10-day fast, I added a squirt of grade B maple syrup or a squirt of honey and lemon to the water.  I could have gone more than 10 days if I wanted to.  It starts to get really uncomfortable around the 3rd day but then your brain starts to master your body around day 5 and it gets easier.

When I do go without food, I have to refrain from strenuous activity otherwise my brain becomes sluggish and I start having that zombie-brain feeling.

Edited by anatess2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, anatess2 said:

As a Catholic, I would abstain from something for the 40 days before Easter (usually abstain from eating meat) and fast from food starting Palm Sunday that will be broken on Easter morning.  I don't fast from water and I don't fast from daily vitamins.  I stopped this practice after I got baptized LDS.

The longest I've gone without food is 10 days.  But I've never gone without water for more than 24 hours.  When I did the 10-day fast, I added a squirt of grade B maple syrup or a squirt of honey and lemon to the water.  I could have gone more than 10 days if I wanted to.  It starts to get really uncomfortable around the 3rd day but then your brain starts to master your body around day 5 and it gets easier.

When I do go without food, I have to refrain from strenuous activity otherwise my brain becomes sluggish and I start having that zombie-brain feeling.

I'm seriously overweight.  If I lost 100 lbs I'd still be overweight, so you get the picture.  Well, my wife has decided to go on a diet aided by a meal replacement product (starting tomorrow).  She's had success with this before, and expects to be successful again.  But even if it works, I think it's only a short term solution -- so I won't be participating.  But after reading Dr. Jason Fung's book, "The Obesity Code", a few months ago, I have decided to use a different strategy for weight loss -- and this will be intermittent fasting.  I start tomorrow!  Meaning I won't be eating at all tomorrow -- nor all day on Sunday.  Of course, this happens to overlap with Fast Sunday this month, but whatever.  I'm just trying to time it according to my wife's efforts. 

I haven't quite settled on my fasting schedule, but I think I will start out by not eating on weekends.  

Incidentally, my late wife used to like to do what she called "10 day lemon cleanses", which your maple syrup/lemon squirt reminded me of.  I couldn't deal with it, but when she did this she would routinely lose about 14 pounds or so.  And after she was done, the weight would go back on in a few weeks.  But she wasn't doing it for weight loss -- she just liked how she felt during and after the cleanse.  I think this is called a "Master Cleanse" in some quarters, but it wasn't quite what my late wife did.  What she did was a quart of water with the juice of one lemon (or lime), a tablespoon of maple syrup, and a quarter teaspoon of cayenne pepper.  Drink as much of this as you like, as well as all the plain water you wanted.  At the end of ten days, there was a vegetable soupish thing that you were supposed to transition to, and then a gradual resumption of a healthy diet.  The originator of this particular regimen had a number of pseudoscientific pronouncements about the diet that made no sense at all, but whatever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Starwatcher said:

I'm seriously overweight.  If I lost 100 lbs I'd still be overweight, so you get the picture.  Well, my wife has decided to go on a diet aided by a meal replacement product (starting tomorrow).  She's had success with this before, and expects to be successful again.  But even if it works, I think it's only a short term solution -- so I won't be participating.  But after reading Dr. Jason Fung's book, "The Obesity Code", a few months ago, I have decided to use a different strategy for weight loss -- and this will be intermittent fasting.  I start tomorrow!  Meaning I won't be eating at all tomorrow -- nor all day on Sunday.  Of course, this happens to overlap with Fast Sunday this month, but whatever.  I'm just trying to time it according to my wife's efforts. 

I haven't quite settled on my fasting schedule, but I think I will start out by not eating on weekends.  

Incidentally, my late wife used to like to do what she called "10 day lemon cleanses", which your maple syrup/lemon squirt reminded me of.  I couldn't deal with it, but when she did this she would routinely lose about 14 pounds or so.  And after she was done, the weight would go back on in a few weeks.  But she wasn't doing it for weight loss -- she just liked how she felt during and after the cleanse.  I think this is called a "Master Cleanse" in some quarters, but it wasn't quite what my late wife did.  What she did was a quart of water with the juice of one lemon (or lime), a tablespoon of maple syrup, and a quarter teaspoon of cayenne pepper.  Drink as much of this as you like, as well as all the plain water you wanted.  At the end of ten days, there was a vegetable soupish thing that you were supposed to transition to, and then a gradual resumption of a healthy diet.  The originator of this particular regimen had a number of pseudoscientific pronouncements about the diet that made no sense at all, but whatever.

You should join our 2019 Weight Loss Group thread.  @SpiritDragon is a fitness guy and he's offered to share his knowledge with us.  

I've heard about that Master Cleanse.  I think it was Oprah or something that did it.  I have to tell ya - it's not a good idea for weight loss, if you lose anything, you would gain it back plus some more.  Your body goes into starvation mode and uses the least amount of calories to power the day even after you've gone back to normal eating.  So yeah, in my opinion, fasting is just starving if not directed towards a spiritual goal.  I've also heard of intermittent fasting... from a guest of Joe Rogan of all places.  SpiritDragon can probably help you out with this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share