Traveler

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28 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I must see things very differently than you - to me obligations and debts are 100% interchangeable.  I believe my upbringing was much like the prophet Joseph Smith.  If I promised to stay inside a chalk line I am more obligated and have a debt to stay much more than if I am place there by someone else behind iron bars and armed guards.   What I promise is much more of a debt than any outside attempt for me to believe or think otherwise. 

As a parent in Zion I have an obligation and debt to G-d to raise his precious children to whom I have been entrusted and obligated to serve - because of covenants and promises made previously.

But I also must admit to playing with your mind a little - I agree with a lot you have said.  But I believe we act as obligation and debt - either to the world or to G-d - likewise with promise.  Then as we agreed to debt and obligation we come into this life and struggle to complete be worthy to those we owe so much and so greatly.

 

The Traveler

I think you are purposefully misusing the word Debt out of its context from our discussion of Charity just so you can defend your point of view.

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28 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I think you are purposefully misusing the word Debt out of its context from our discussion of Charity just so you can defend your point of view.

I would not go so far to say misusing.  For sure we have an obligation to be charitable.   I emphasized this notion to make what I believe to be an important point.   We are also told in scripture that to care for those in need (widows and orphans) is true religion and an act of charity.   But it is more important to meet our debts before we try to fulfill what we may think as our charitable obligations.  This is why I suggested that charity is a debt.  Jesus said that before we pay our alms (be charitable) that if we have ought with our brother that we reconcile with them FIRST and then bring our offerings (of charity) to G-d.   I believe as important as Charity is that it cannot replace our debts and obligations.  That meeting debts and obligations is a step towards being charitable. 

 

The Traveler

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2 hours ago, Traveler said:

I would not go so far to say misusing.  For sure we have an obligation to be charitable.   I emphasized this notion to make what I believe to be an important point.   We are also told in scripture that to care for those in need (widows and orphans) is true religion and an act of charity.   But it is more important to meet our debts before we try to fulfill what we may think as our charitable obligations.  This is why I suggested that charity is a debt.  Jesus said that before we pay our alms (be charitable) that if we have ought with our brother that we reconcile with them FIRST and then bring our offerings (of charity) to G-d.   I believe as important as Charity is that it cannot replace our debts and obligations.  That meeting debts and obligations is a step towards being charitable. 

 

The Traveler

Except we're not talking about meeting debts before charitable obligations but about winning a European vacation and you saying it's dishonest because you "got something for nothing" and then you saying that you can't accept acts of charity towards you because then you "got something for nothing".

Edited by anatess2

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On 2/11/2019 at 2:11 PM, anatess2 said:

Except we're not talking about meeting debts before charitable obligations but about winning a European vacation and you saying it's dishonest because you "got something for nothing" and then you saying that you can't accept acts of charity towards you because then you "got something for nothing".

What is your definition of filthy lucre? or ill gotten gains?   If you found money on a busy street corner do you keep it?  Does it matter if it is 5 cents or $5,000?

 

The Traveler 

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14 hours ago, Traveler said:

What is your definition of filthy lucre? or ill gotten gains?  

Let me count the ways... Marcos, Enron, Walter White, Hugh Heffner... etc. etc.

14 hours ago, Traveler said:

 

 

If you found money on a busy street corner do you keep it?  Does it matter if it is 5 cents or $5,000? 

Of course not!  It's not mine and nobody gave it to me.  Now, if some vendor on the street gave me $5,000 to thank me for all my decades of patronage of his hotdog stand, I'm going to keep it.

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Let me count the ways... Marcos, Enron, Walter White, Hugh Heffner... etc. etc.

Of course not!  It's not mine and nobody gave it to me.  Now, if some vendor on the street gave me $5,000 to thank me for all my decades of patronage of his hotdog stand, I'm going to keep it.

I thank you for your honest responses.  Perhaps someday we can explore such things in greater detail when tender feelings to not seem to be at risk.  You are a lady that I respect and feel I can be open.  Though our cultures are greatly different I am not offended (though confused sometimes).  I am also a very typical engineer that have a most difficult time with how emotions play with logic.  I mean you no offense.

 

The Traveler

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31 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I thank you for your honest responses.  Perhaps someday we can explore such things in greater detail when tender feelings to not seem to be at risk.  You are a lady that I respect and feel I can be open.  Though our cultures are greatly different I am not offended (though confused sometimes).  I am also a very typical engineer that have a most difficult time with how emotions play with logic.  I mean you no offense.

 

The Traveler

This is anatess2.  The Bisaya.  I don't do "tender feelings".  And I'm also an engineer.  Emotions don't play with logic.

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