Please can you give me some advice on attending church with a baby?

[Maureen]

3 hours ago, Grunt said:

I don't have young kids....

You don't think 8 years old is young?

M.

[Grunt]

10 minutes ago, Maureen said:

You don't think 8 years old is young?

M.

Not for church.  My boys sit quietly during Sacrament then go to Primary by themselves. 

[Maureen]

20 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Not for church.  My boys sit quietly during Sacrament then go to Primary by themselves. 

How your kids act in church is beside the point. You said you don't have young kids. If 8 years old isn't young, then what is it? You could have said you don't have babies or toddlers, that would be truthful.

M.

[Grunt]

1 minute ago, Maureen said:

How your kids act in church is beside the point. You said you don't have young kids. If 8 years old isn't young, then what is it? You could have said you don't have babies or toddlers, that would be truthful.

M.

I don't consider 8 to be "young kids".   

[KScience]

As a single parent who moved to a new ward with a 2 year old baby after my husband left, I keenly remember this experience and felt your pain for a while. Before this I went to church alone with a baby as my husband was not a member.  I just went because I needed to take the sacrament. Children pass through this phase with a little perseverance and pre planning; although at the time it can seem like an eternity and things will never get better.

I had a very energetic son, so would take him to the park on the way to church so that he had time to run around and wear himself out. Being English this often involved wellies and a big coat and a change of clothes for when we got to the chapel, but it made the day easier for him.

I am naturally a reserved person and would prefer my own space, but found that my son settled best if I sat in the middle of a pew surrounded by people. This meant that I found out that members were very happy to have a "small" sit and quietly chat to them (to my surprise especially the older ladies who I had mistakenly assumed would be irritated by him). Crayons and paper would help him sit stiller, or sitting on my lap and playing boo with the members in the pew behind could keep him entertained for a good 10-15 mins. Finger games like incy-wincy spider were also a useful distraction

I also trained my son at home to have short periods (starting with just 1 minute) where he sat still on my lap and we had quiet time every day. This helped him to be able to sit still and learn to entertain himself with his imagination. It's a skill that helps children in school too and increases their concentration time.

Don't worry about what other people think - just do what's best for you and your son. On the worst days I just had to chant to myself "this too shall pass" 

We did survive this, and thinking back on this has reminded me of some of the fun times we had when he was a tiny tot - and now with the passage of time I find myself smiling at these memories.

Edited February 2, 2019 by KScience

[Alia]

On 2/1/2019 at 7:05 PM, Vort said:

 

HOW TO TAKE YOUR CHILD OUT INTO THE FOYER DURING SACRAMENT MEETING

When you take the child (toddler, say about two years old or more—remember, younger children just get held, fed, and comforted) into the foyer, it's a classic time-out situation. You sit the child on your lap while you both sit facing the corner or wall. If the child wants to get up, you don't let him. Sitting in the foyer is just that: Sitting. Do not be harsh or angry. You aren't mad at your child. Just make sure the foyer is as boring as you can possibly make it. No toys. No food. No books. NO TALKING AT ALL (that includes you, Mom). All you do is sit with your arms folded and stare at the wall. If your child gets restless, he's not allowed to do anything about it.

Just stare at the wall.

Boooooooring.

That's what you want. Boring as all get-out. Staring at the wall. Nothing to do, can't talk, no playing or reading or anything.

Staring at the wall.

After your child has successfully stared QUIETLY at the wall for a sufficient time (about one minute per year of age, so a two-year-old would be looking at the wall for about two minutes—maybe half that time would be sufficient to start out with), you then quietly and kindly ask your child if he wants to go back in. Maybe one time in a hundred he will say "No!", in which case you stare at the wall some more for a couple of minutes.

Eventually (almost always the first time, and never more than the second time for my children), when you ask if he wants to go back in, he will say "yes". You then remind him that when we're in sacrament meeting, we have to be quiet and reverent all the time. That means he can't talk out loud or make noise or scream. He can read his soft book or play with toys or whatever, but no noise. Will he be quiet when we go back in the chapel?

Of course, he will say yes. So back in you go.

And guess what happens? He gets loud again, sometimes 20 minutes later, sometimes two minutes later. What do you do?

Take him out into the foyer again, rinse, and repeat. Same drill. Stare at the wall.

I don't think that even the most recalcitrant of my children took more than two or three weeks of this before they realized that they were much better off being quiet during the sacrament meeting. Of course, they slipped up and occasionally still had to be taken out, but it was manageable. A fond if somewhat embarrassing memory is my taking my toddler daughter out into the foyer when she wouldn't calm down, and as we walked up the aisle with her in my arms, her screaming at the top of her lungs in a tearful and almost panicked voice, "NO!! DADDY!! NOT THE FOYER!! I DON'T WANT TO GO TO THE FOYER!!"

My mom did this with me when I would misbehave at church although it was so much worse.

In general, disregarding church do you think 17 months is too young for a time out ? My son is purposefully defiant and he knows he is doing it. He will go to throw something and I tell him not to so he doesn't, as soon as I turn my back he does it. It is driving me crazy. 

[Jane_Doe]

1 minute ago, Alia said:

My mom did this with me when I would misbehave at church although it was so much worse.

In general, disregarding church do you think 17 months is too young for a time out ? My son is purposefully defiant and he knows he is doing it. He will go to throw something and I tell him not to so he doesn't, as soon as I turn my back he does it. It is driving me crazy. 

This is a general discipline question.  And yes, 17 month is old enough to know the basic bounds and push them just to push them.  Very commonly 18-30 months is a extremely trying time parenting for that reason (hence "the terrible twos").  While it is good to have positive reinforcement for good behaviors and try to have that be the main motivator, but sometimes there just has to be bad consequences for bad behavior.  

What those condense are really depends on the individual child and what works with them.  Time outs is one such option.  But there are others too.  For my daughter, we found it very effective to have her toy go to time out -- not her, but the toy.  So if she threw a toy, it was explained that she was not following the rules with the toy, and hence the toy had to go to time out.  That was WAY more effective on getting her to link behavior+consequence and change from that.  

You just got to figure out what works with your kid in particular.  

 

 

[Vort]

On 2/2/2019 at 1:39 PM, Alia said:

My mom did this with me when I would misbehave at church although it was so much worse.

In general, disregarding church do you think 17 months is too young for a time out ? My son is purposefully defiant and he knows he is doing it. He will go to throw something and I tell him not to so he doesn't, as soon as I turn my back he does it. It is driving me crazy. 

Seventeen months is old enough to be purposefully defiant and naughty, but IMO it is too young to have any clear idea of doing something wrong. But it is appropriate to discipline a child who is purposefully misbehaving. That's what "discipline" means; to make him a disciple. You don't spank or slap a 17-month-old, of course; but you do correct his actions and not allow him to do the wrong thing. Time-outs should never be punitive; the goal is to allow the child (and his mama) to calm down so you can redirect his focus. You may scold him if he can be made to understand that he's being naughty, but your scolding should be gentle, not harsh. This is probably true at any age, but much moreso with very young children like this. Lots and lots of patience. That's what you (and he) need.

[Alia]

On 2/1/2019 at 7:05 PM, Vort said:

• NEVER, EVER, EVER LET YOUR CHILD RUN UP AND DOWN THE AISLES DURING SACRAMENT MEETING. Sorry if this seems stupidly obvious, but judging by the number of times I have seen this in Church, apparently it's not as obvious as all that to some people. If you do see other parents allowing their children to do this, please understand that that is an example of poor decision-making by the parents, not a signal that you should do the same. Be the responsible parent, not the other kind.

 

Yesterday my son began to crawl under the chairs about 5 minutes in to the meeting and I could not get him out. I just had to wait for him to crawl back to me which was probably only a few minutes but it felt like a life time. I took him outside and after maybe 10 minutes I gave up and took him to the park. This Sunday was a failure but hopefully we can try again next week. 

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Alia said:

Yesterday my son began to crawl under the chairs about 5 minutes in to the meeting and I could not get him out. I just had to wait for him to crawl back to me which was probably only a few minutes but it felt like a life time. I took him outside and after maybe 10 minutes I gave up and took him to the park. This Sunday was a failure but hopefully we can try again next week. 

It's one thing to have a child that crawls away and you have to go get him (or have others hand him to you, or wait for him to come back). That's pretty much everybody's experience, just a part of having children at Church. In my view, it's quite another thing to set your child on the floor and then smile while he runs up and down the aisle, in front of the speaker, etc. I was referring to the latter thing, not the former.

[JohnsonJones]

in addition, there are some things that you may have tried but if not, could help as well.

Bring Cheerios for them to snack on when they are in sacrament meeting and maybe paper and pencil or something that they can draw and/or color with quietly.  This does not solve the difficulties with a rowdy child, but at times can make them occur less

When they are a little older (I think a few years, probably around 3 or 4, though it MIGHT work with younger kids)

Bring a little treat for the child.  I liked to use life savers, but any treat they like will do.  Put it beside them on the bench where they can see it.  They are very motivated by things they can see If found out.  They can ONLY have the life savers AFTER sacrament is passed and the speakers stand up IF they have been reverent the entire time.  If you use a pack of life savers (now that I think about it, I don't know if they sell packs of life savers anymore...they used to when my kids were young but I haven't bought them for years now...and can't recall seeing them at the checkouts anymore...maybe it's because I'm not looking for them) then if they manage to be somewhat good, but NOT quite good enough, let them have one or two out of the pack but not the entire pack.

Other types of candy probably would work as well, and if the child has a favorite type that may be the best one to use.

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Alia said:

Yesterday my son began to crawl under the chairs about 5 minutes in to the meeting and I could not get him out. I just had to wait for him to crawl back to me which was probably only a few minutes but it felt like a life time. I took him outside and after maybe 10 minutes I gave up and took him to the park. This Sunday was a failure but hopefully we can try again next week. 

This is just my opinion from the faceless anonymous internet from thousands of miles away.  I think you're stressing out way too much.

Here is my advice.  Teach your child to be obedient and reverent at home.  These are the first lessons in childhood development.  You teach a child obedience by limiting his choices to the least amount he can be trusted with.  From what I gather from your post, your child is at the stage of 2 choices maximum.  E.g. "You can flip through a picture book or you can sit and be quiet".  "You can play with your blocks or you can watch the Wiggles", etc.  You direct a child to acceptable activities.  Unacceptable activities, including whining, is not a choice.  A child will always want to please his mother.  You can use this to your advantage.  If he's doing one of the choices available, then you join his activity and show you are pleased.  If he's doing something that is not one of the acceptable choices, you show you are displeased and not engage with him until he's doing one of the activities.  This can include limiting his boundaries and taking away things that catch his attention.  Yes, this requires the ability to ignore a whining child which is where most mothers fail - they just can't have that heart of steel.  A whining child is trying to win your attention.  Letting him win it will teach him that's how to get your attention.  

You teach a child reverence by example.  Prayer is the best time to do it.  It can be short or it can be long.  Reading time is another time to do it - you can take him to the public library and start from short periods and extend to longer periods.  There are tools you can use to maintain reverence - picture books is one of the best ones.  A child taught obedience will be easier to teach reverence.

These are lifetime lessons - obedience and reverence are things a person is continually taught even when they're 90.  I don't think there's a general conference that passes by without lessons in obedience and reverence being taught.  The older the child gets, the choices expand, the boundaries expand, the consequences become more serious.  The way you teach these same lessons also changes as the child becomes more responsible and trustworthy.

Now, Sacrament meeting is a time to apply this learning.  Sometimes, the lessons stick, sometimes they don't.  Don't worry about it.  Most everybody in that room has "been there, done that".  They know it's not easy.  Remind the child of the obedience and reverence lessons you've been teaching him during the week - the acceptable choices in Church - and simply do your best to reinforce the lessons.  I say, don't worry too much about what anybody else is thinking - including the person that had to pluck your kid from under the seat.  You are doing your best and that's all we can expect out of anybody.  If you take him to the park, he'll never learn those lessons and you'll eventually end up with a 12-year old who doesn't listen to you. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by anatess2

[Jane_Doe]

2 hours ago, Alia said:

Yesterday my son began to crawl under the chairs about 5 minutes in to the meeting and I could not get him out. I just had to wait for him to crawl back to me which was probably only a few minutes but it felt like a life time. I took him outside and after maybe 10 minutes I gave up and took him to the park. This Sunday was a failure but hopefully we can try again next week. 

I think about everyone has had that moment where the kid crawls away.  And that moment where the kid finds the piano and play his favorite tone (aka slamming his hands down on the keys).   And the moment where he tries to eat something he shouldn't.  

Don't be so hard on yourself-- this stuff happens.  Just keep at it, and don't expect perfection.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[Sunday21]

I am sometimes grateful for the young children wandering through sacrament. Sometimes speakers talk for 1/2 an hour on their memories of childhood Christmas traditions or why they love our country. I think that they mean to be heartwarming. I guess that listening to such talks is an exercise in patience but sometimes I am just dying for relief. Having small children wandering around is a blessing at such times.

I remember one long talk which seemed to the speaker’s response to a private discussion between two ward members about their differing opinions with respect to a talk given at a funeral in the early days of the church. The speaker had his own views about the interpretation of this funeral speech and while the ward member had another. My guess is that this disagreement was years old and this was an opportunity to recruit followers to his side of the argument. I have no idea what the actual bone of contention was nor any idea what general gospel principle was involved. The speaker was enjoying himself a great deal to the extent that he actually changed colour in his face throughout the talk. To obtain some relief,  my friend and I tried to capture a few children as they wandered by. No luck. There was a Mom in front of us who was struggling with 3 toddlers. We asked if we could help. Sadly Mom was too embarrasssed by her situation to share and even apologized for the behaviour of her children. 

Honestly if it were not for small children weaving their way through the congregation I think I would lose my mind at times.

[Alia]

On 2/4/2019 at 9:52 PM, JohnsonJones said:

Bring Cheerios for them to snack on when they are in sacrament meeting.

I took your advice and gave him Raisins, he started throwing them at the person in front of us. I was so shocked because he has never thrown food at home. I took him into the hall and there was another baby out there and it turned into something similar to when 2 dogs meet, with them trying to out scream each other. We lasted about 25 minutes this week. I did learn not to give him any snacks at church. 

[Alia]

 

On 2/4/2019 at 9:58 PM, anatess2 said:

I say, don't worry too much about what anybody else is thinking - including the person that had to pluck your kid from under the seat.  You are doing your best and that's all we can expect out of anybody.  If you take him to the park, he'll never learn those lessons and you'll eventually end up with a 12-year old who doesn't listen to you. 

I agree, my husband doesn't understand why it makes me feel awkward when my son misbehaves at church but I hate people looking at me. Annoyingly, there is a park right behind the church and I told my son I will take him there when we leave church. When I took him out of the meeting room into the hall he thought we were leaving so a tantrum pursued when I didn't take him to the park and at that point I knew the battle was lost. I do accept that I need to stop giving into him when he has tantrums. 

[KScience]

Alia, sorry this week seemed so difficult.  Keep persevering and know that all of us who know what you are going through are sympathetic and empathetic and not AT ALL judging you or your sons behaviour.

Have you looked around and noticed what other children and parents are doing? You might notice that small children move around and make a lot more noise than you are aware of. It always seemed SOOO much louder when it was my own son making the noise.  The week he properly did a runner i.e. crawling under benches giggling and screeching loudly with members trying to catch him for me. Then running up and down the aisle with me in "trying to be reverent and not cross" pursuit and failing until, the speaker had to stop and 3 deacons waded in - I WAS MORTIFIED. 

I was all ready to pack up and go home and never show my face until he was old enough to marry- or at least not act like a heathen.  I was so lucky that my Bishop passed by gave my son a pat on the head, me a big smile and said that's the most exciting meeting for a while...at least everyone was awake. I also overheard a couple of older sisters in RS chuckling at his antics. People really do understand that children are not malicious and can be exuberant.

Things did get easier - being called as YW pres really helped as the YW of the ward then had a great excuse to sit and play with the cute toddler!

There are other tales, even when he got older..... I figure kids are here to teach us humility at times....and I have LOTS of stories to tell his future girlfriends/spouse and embarrass him right back (as is a parents privilege)

This is not the finest display of my parenting skills - but I am going with reached the age of 26 and calling that a win 

 

[Alia]

56 minutes ago, KScience said:

Alia, sorry this week seemed so difficult.  Keep persevering and know that all of us who know what you are going through are sympathetic and empathetic and not AT ALL judging you or your sons behaviour.

 Have you looked around and noticed what other children and parents are doing? You might notice that small children move around and make a lot more noise than you are aware of. It always seemed SOOO much louder when it was my own son making the noise.  The week he properly did a runner i.e. crawling under benches giggling and screeching loudly with members trying to catch him for me. Then running up and down the aisle with me in "trying to be reverent and not cross" pursuit and failing until, the speaker had to stop and 3 deacons waded in - I WAS MORTIFIED. 

 I was all ready to pack up and go home and never show my face until he was old enough to marry- or at least not act like a heathen.  I was so lucky that my Bishop passed by gave my son a pat on the head, me a big smile and said that's the most exciting meeting for a while...at least everyone was awake. I also overheard a couple of older sisters in RS chuckling at his antics. People really do understand that children are not malicious and can be exuberant.

 Things did get easier - being called as YW pres really helped as the YW of the ward then had a great excuse to sit and play with the cute toddler!

 There are other tales, even when he got older..... I figure kids are here to teach us humility at times....and I have LOTS of stories to tell his future girlfriends/spouse and embarrass him right back (as is a parents privilege)

 This is not the finest display of my parenting skills - but I am going with reached the age of 26 and calling that a win 

  

I was not ready for the challenge of balancing church and a baby. I used to judge parents so much for how their kids behaved at church, thinking my child will never do that. I think next week I will leave my son at home, for the sake of my sanity. 

[KScience]

12 minutes ago, Alia said:

I was not ready for the challenge of balancing church and a baby. I used to judge parents so much for how their kids behaved at church, thinking my child will never do that. I think next week I will leave my son at home, for the sake of my sanity. 

Do what you need to do.  Just be assured we are not all judging you.  Is there a sister with/once had young kids that you can share your concerns with?

[Grunt]

2 hours ago, KScience said:

Do what you need to do.  Just be assured we are not all judging you.  Is there a sister with/once had young kids that you can share your concerns with?

I was a visitor at a ward today.  The woman next to me had a young daughter that climbed over me 2 dozen times, picked the patches off my bag, and drooled all over my leg.  The poor woman wouldn't stop apologizing, but I loved every minute of it.  

[JohnsonJones]

7 hours ago, Alia said:

I took your advice and gave him Raisins, he started throwing them at the person in front of us. I was so shocked because he has never thrown food at home. I took him into the hall and there was another baby out there and it turned into something similar to when 2 dogs meet, with them trying to out scream each other. We lasted about 25 minutes this week. I did learn not to give him any snacks at church. 

Children can do the most unexpected things at times. 

[Sunday21]

3 hours ago, Grunt said:

I was a visitor at a ward today.  The woman next to me had a young daughter that climbed over me 2 dozen times, picked the patches off my bag, and drooled all over my leg.  The poor woman wouldn't stop apologizing, but I loved every minute of it.  

I have sometimes considered kidnapping.

[Grunt]

9 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I have sometimes considered kidnapping.

i was just really missing my family so it made my day.

[Junior]

My phone went off at church yesterday and I started laughing really loudly at something a kid shouted out. My mom looked away as if she wasn't with me 😂I still embarrass my mom at church now and I am 19.  

[Alia]

9 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

I have sometimes considered kidnapping.

There were a few moments yesterday where if someone had tried to kidnap my son I would have let them.