Psychology: Toxic personality


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Yay!  I am not any of those!  Best news I've heard all day.

Interesting - the difference between empathy and understanding.  Regular folks can have genuine empathy, where someone is having some experience, and the person can find something in their own lives that has them feeling similarly, and they sit there and feel together.  Empathy.   But understanding is different - an intellectual exercise about the other person's experience and how they're feeling, but there is no "that happened to me once too" stuff involved. 

That helps me.  I've always hesitated to tell someone I understand what they're going through, when I've never shared something similar.  But I can have a surface-level genuine understanding and still be helpful.

That totally fits the homeless guy that came to our church to work us for money one Sunday.  He kept telling different sad stories, not because he was seeking understanding, but because he knows that church is where you find people who help folks with sad stories.  And you know he only wanted money not help, because I offered him help (in the form of a visit with our Bishop) and he disappeared like a puff of smoke - off to the next church.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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Watching this, my biggest fear was "I'm a narcissist" - so I went straight to Dr. Internet to get diagnosed.

I did the "Narcissistic Personality Quiz!" https://psychcentral.com/cgi-bin/narcissisticquiz.cgi

These were the results:

Your Total: 3

Between 12 and 15 is average.
Celebrities often score closer to 18.
Narcissists score over 20

So I'm an extreme -  what's the opposite of a narcissist? Professor Internet tells me that's an "empath". Isn't that what Troi was in Star Trek? Well no - you can read about real empaths here: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/empath-narcissist-attracted-like-each-other-opposites-attract-love-sex-relationships-a8176551.html

"Empaths are "emotional sponges," who can absorb feelings from other people very easily. This makes them them very attractive to narcissists, because they see someone who will fulfill their every need in a selfless way."

I shudder...

Edited by Jamie123
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10 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

Watching this, my biggest fear was "I'm a narcissist" - so I went straight to Dr. Internet to get diagnosed.

I did the "Narcissistic Personality Quiz!" https://psychcentral.com/cgi-bin/narcissisticquiz.cgi

These were the results:

Your Total: 3

Between 12 and 15 is average.
Celebrities often score closer to 18.
Narcissists score over 20

So I'm an extreme -  what's the opposite of a narcissist? Professor Internet tells me that's an "empath". Isn't that what Troi was in Star Trek? Well no - you can read about real empaths here: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/empath-narcissist-attracted-like-each-other-opposites-attract-love-sex-relationships-a8176551.html

"Empaths are "emotional sponges," who can absorb feelings from other people very easily. This makes them them very attractive to narcissists, because they see someone who will fulfill their every need in a selfless way."

I shudder...

Opposite of a narcissist is an Empath. You could be a Starship counselor. 

DeannaTroi.jpg

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Guest MormonGator
2 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

Seems to border on Psychopathy. Remind me to stay on your good side.

 

Border? Thanks! I was thinking I went way past it. 😉

Edited by MormonGator
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Guest MormonGator

In all seriousness the words "psychopath" and "narcissist" have no meaning anymore because they are both so foolishly overused. They both mean "person I don't like" instead of their actual meaning. 

And someone can have such little regard for these online tests that they try to answer every question wrongly just to amuse themselves-but that's something a real psychopath would do. Not me. 

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I got a 4... but my results may be skewed because I was trying to anticipate how each question would factor in.  So either I'm not a Narcissist at all, or I'm a raging Narcissist who's very, very good at hiding it.  (Kidding.  See below.)  

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure this is a good test.  I used to be married to a Narcissist and I can tell you that I bet my ex would probably have answered a lot of the questions the same way I did.  

The thing that  makes Narcissistic Personality Disorder so hard to treat or even define sometimes, is that the Narcissist himself/herself doesn't realize their behavior is unusual.  They see themselves as humble, reasonable, normal and average people.  They absolutely will not admit to being a Narcissist, because to admit that would be to openly acknowledge a massive personal flaw which they simply will not do. That's part of the pathology of the disorder.  Want to know how I can honestly be certain that I'm personally not a Narcissist?  It's because I've worried about it and sought advice and feedback from others to try to diagnose myself.  A real Narcissist would never do so.

The thing that makes a Narcissist is the inability to see things from the perspective of others, and so they are unable to learn from social cues and feedback that is essential to us for regulating our behavior and keeping us in a healthy zone socially.  They believe they are entitled to things, not because they're great, but because they see no reason why they shouldn't be.  They believe that getting their own way benefits everybody, not only them, and that of course they are willing to do things for others - because they naturally assume things will be done for them.  On the surface that sounds almost reasonable, until you realize that they will want to be the ones to define when they've done enough for you, and when you've done enough for them.  That makes it easy to see where the problem lies.

All of which is a bit of a paradox, because on the inside, Narcissists are incredibly insecure and lack self esteem, so their behavior is meant as much to prove something to themselves and to others as it is a lack of empathy.  A Narcissist wouldn't say "I'm a great person."  They'd say "Can't you see that I'm a great person?"  It's a subtle difference, but very important.  One is a statement of belief, the other is marketing.

 

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16 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

In all seriousness the words "psychopath" and "narcissist" have no meaning anymore because they are both so foolishly overused. They both mean "person I don't like" instead of their actual meaning. 

Truth.  And yet both (along with homophobia) continue to be legitimate disorders, with real definitions.  And it's useful to know what they actually mean, so you can think about how to deal with folks who actually might be one.

 

Edited by NeuroTypical
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Guest MormonGator
6 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Truth.  And yet both (along with homophobia) continue to be legitimate disorders, with real definitions.  And it's useful to know what they actually mean, so you can think about how to deal with folks who actually might be one.

 

Agree, though odds are 1) you (generic!) aren't dealing with one and 2) the person you (again, generic!) are describing as one isn't one. 

I'm sorry to be snarky, it's just so tiresome to see people throw the words around. The reality is that you need to be a qualified psychologist to actually diagnose someone with having a borderline personality disorder. 

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25 minutes ago, unixknight said:

.  I used to be married to a Narcissist

You know I got mad love for you bro, so take this with a grain of salt/sense of humor-I think everyone says that about their ex. I know of about 4 women who call their ex-husbands that. If we really are that surrounded by sociopaths, we''re all doomed. 

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2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

You know I got mad love for you bro, so take this with a grain of salt/sense of humor-I think everyone says that about their ex. I know of about 4 women who call their ex-husbands that. If we really are that surrounded by sociopaths, we''re all doomed. 

Haha that's fair, so I'll defend my statement this way (because it might also be useful in illustrating the nature of Narcissists):

  • For the first few years after the divorce, I just figured it was mostly my fault, or an inability for us to resolve our differences.  At some point I was casually reading information about personality disorders because I had had a very bizarre argument with my ex, and I was trying to perform a sanity check on myself as well as try to understand what happened*.  I read a post about someone who had lived with a person suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and the way they described not only the behavior of the other person, their own experience and feelings really hit me hard.  I could have been reading my own story.  From there, I began researching NPD.  The more I learned, the clearer the picture became.
  • Someone very close to me, distraught over the quality of her relationship with my ex, actually majored in Psychology for a couple of semesters.  She needed answers, and learned enough to also see the patterns and signs of NPD.  Today, she has learned, from a professional, that she has the psychological side effects from living for an extended period with a person suffering form NPD.  Yes, she's getting treatment for it and it has done her an immense amount of good.
  • Another person, also very close to me, also majored in Psych, partly to understand some of his own problems.  He too saw the pattern for what it was and realized my ex doesn't just have NPD, she has a severe case.  He called her a Narcissist to her face once.  Even I haven't had the guts to try that.  That was fun.  I believe they got that on the Richter Scale in central PA.  
  • On one of those "if this person had more than four or five of the items in the list below, they should seek professional diagnoses for NPD."  My ex got 11/13.
  • Over the years, we've continued to observe my ex's behavior as a way to see if that was all really true of if we were just being vindictive.  Her behavior has continued to be consistent with a clinical diagnosis of NPD.  

*In the years after the divorce, my kids were consistently coming to me to share problems they were having with my ex, and wanted me to try to talk to her.  In the course of this discussion, which my two boys were involved in, she accused me of absolutely never having been involved in trick-or-treating with the kids.  This wasn't true.  (I had missed a couple of Halloweens, but certainly not all of them or even the majority of them.)  I insisted that this wasn't true, and pointed to examples.  She continued to try to insist that I had not.  Then my boys  jumped in, also sharing that they remembered not only that I had gone with them, but the last year before the divorce I had even been the ones to take them out to get their costumes as well as going out on Halloween.  She adamantly refused to admit that this could be true.  A reasonable person would at least acknowledge that maybe, in this case, she remembered wrong, but that isn't what happened.  She insisted that she was right, and that we were all collectively remembering wrong.  (Can you say "gaslighting," kids?)   There were other examples like that during this discussion, but you get the idea.  She ultimately stormed out because the boys and I weren't being reasonable.

Years later, when I was trying to improve myself spiritually, I reached out and apologized to her for my part of the problems in our marriage.  I have yet to receive that courtesy in return.  (No, I wasn't expecting it anyway.)

So yeah, I know a lot of people see their exs' that way, so I don't make that statement lightly.

 

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I haven't had a chance to watch this, but I think it seems to be the in thing to do...  label someone as a narcissist.   

I think it is useful to be able to spot a possible narcissist, sociopath, etc.  But often I think people are prone to give someone a bad label for their own inadequacies.   If you have a bad relationship with your spouse.... they must be a narcissist.  And of course some of the time they are.

But I think we really need to be very careful about these things and look at ourselves very closely before making such accusations. 

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Keep in mind, even if you or your ex aren't narcissistic, psychopathic, or sociopathic, there are still plenty of horrible things to be:

Borderline Personality Disorder
Passive Aggressive
Codependent
Enmeshed
Emotionally stunted/crippled/vacant

But you don't have to have a fancy-sounding name attached to you, you can still act like a horrible person in the regular ways.  Plenty of plain old character defects like liar, addict, prideful, greedy, lustful, envious, gluttonous, wrathful, or slothful. 

Edited by NeuroTypical
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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Truth.  And yet both (along with homophobia) continue to be legitimate disorders, with real definitions.  And it's useful to know what they actually mean, so you can think about how to deal with folks who actually might be one.

 

True. Most disorders are not accurately understood by the public at large. With regards to phobias, a "phobia" is defined as a fear or aversion to something, and yet homophobia is used all the time as a term for those who simply dislike or are prejudiced against those who are gay. I wish people would use proper terms and not skew words/definitions to fit their narrative. The word gay is a prime example...used to mean happy and carefree - now means homosexual. I am not saying actual homophobia doesn't exist, but by proper definition I have never met anyone who is actually afraid of a gay person. As far as narcissists go, I think we all tend to be one at different points in our lives. 

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Yep.  A real example of homophobia, is a guy who can't get out of bed and go outside because he is paralyzed by the crippling fear that there might be a gay person.  People with phobias struggle to hold down relationships, jobs, marriages, and otherwise have a hard time functioning as a self-sufficient adult.

 

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A lot of times people paint someone or themselves as having a mental health disorder when it's just their personality that they can change if they put their minds to it.  It's like they want to have an excuse for behaving the way they do.

And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

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