mirkwood Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 5 hours ago, unixknight said: That's a great point. Food for thought when watching a speech like this. As I think about it, my question is: I can imagine a felony assault being pled down to a misdemeanor assault, but could a crime that was initially charged as a violent offense be bargained down to a nonviolent charge? Yes. unixknight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, mirkwood said: Yes. It must be frustrating to you guys. You see the immediate after effects of a serious beating then the perpetrator pleads it down to something much less serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel Goldstein Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 2/6/2019 at 8:29 AM, anatess2 said: Change my mind. @Just_A_Guy, you get special call-out. https://www.whitehouse.gov/sotu/ Totally agree, so nice to have a President that is not afraid of saying what he thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 4 hours ago, MormonGator said: It must be frustrating to you guys. You see the immediate after effects of a serious beating then the perpetrator pleads it down to something much less serious. Sometimes. For the most part after 22 years I've just accepted this is how the system runs. Just_A_Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyme Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 On 2/6/2019 at 6:13 PM, mirkwood said: Yes let's just let those druggies have short sentences. The sooner they are back on the streets breaking out your car window to steal your stuff, kicking in your back door and stealing all your stuff, taking your mail and committing credit card fraud and forgeries on your accounts the better. Yea, drugs, the victimless crime. You don't serve 5 years for simple possession. Quit drinking the kool aid. Says the police officer who doesn’t want to feel bad about all his nonsensical arrests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Tyme said: Says the police officer who doesn’t want to feel bad about all his nonsensical arrests. @mirkwood may be a JBT, but he's 100% correct. Emotion isn't an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyme Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, Grunt said: @mirkwood may be a JBT, but he's 100% correct. Emotion isn't an argument. There needs to be a blend between emotion and logic for any good solution. I discount the argument that emotion shouldn’t play a part. The only time most conservatives use emotion is in regards to abortion. They suddenly think emotion is the end all be all. You can’t scream to the roof tops that only logic should be used in policy making then rely 100% on emotion to argue against abortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Tyme said: There needs to be a blend between emotion and logic for any good solution. I discount the argument that emotion shouldn’t play a part. The only time most conservatives use emotion is in regards to abortion. They suddenly think emotion is the end all be all. You can’t scream to the roof tops that only logic should be used in policy making then rely 100% on emotion to argue against abortion. No there doesn't. Emotion isn't an argument. Facts are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Tyme said: Says the police officer who doesn’t want to feel bad about all his nonsensical arrests. Tell me, o great connoisseur of reasoned discussion: what did you hope to “learn” by posting the above; and how is this not an ad hominem? unixknight and mordorbund 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyme Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 19 minutes ago, Grunt said: No there doesn't. Emotion isn't an argument. Facts are. By that logic all babies and people with infirmities should be culled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 Just now, Tyme said: By that logic all babies and people with infirmities should be culled. Untrue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyme Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 Just now, Grunt said: Untrue. What’s the logical argument against abortion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Tyme said: What’s the logical argument against abortion? There are numerous. The easiest one on this forum is because the Church says elective abortion is wrong. Follow the Prophet. Midwest LDS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyme Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said: Tell me, o great connoisseur of reasoned discussion: what did you hope to “learn” by posting the above; and how is this not an ad hominem? If police officers ever show a bit of empathy and feel bad for the innocent lives they ruin. It’s probably just the same line of just doing my job or they chose to commit crime. When in reality it’s almost always due to the socioeconomic positions a person is in. That most police unions choose to ignore and perpetuate by their policy stances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, Tyme said: What’s the logical argument against abortion? The logical argument against abortion is the same arrangement against murder of human begins.. Grunt, Just_A_Guy, unixknight and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyme Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Grunt said: There are numerous. The easiest one on this forum is because the Church says elective abortion is wrong. Follow the Prophet. That whole argument is based on feelings and emotions. It always amazes me that Latter-day Saints on this forum are so against emotions. The church teaches you to believe based on feelings rather than logic. That is expressly what the missionaries teach to investigators. It seems like pure hypocrisy to only use feelings when it fits you. I don’t know how you guys compartmentalize politics and religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyme Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, estradling75 said: The logical argument against abortion is the same arrangement against murder of human begins.. Logic actually says you should kill anybody who gets in your way in any way. That’s another example of how people use emotion to make laws and policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 Just now, Tyme said: That whole argument is based on feelings and emotions. It always amazes me that Latter-day Saints on this forum are so against emotions. The church teaches you to believe based on feelings rather than logic. That is expressly what the missionaries teach to investigators. It seems like pure hypocrisy to only use feelings when it fits you. I don’t know how you guys compartmentalize politics and religion. You keep saying that, but that's not true. I'm not against emotions. I LOVE emotions. However, everyone is emotional in different ways over different things. Therefore, it's impractical for the State to legislate based on emotions. I compartmentalize politics and religion because it's the intelligent thing to do. The Constitution protects us from State-sponsored religion and I agree. I'd rather be free to practice as I desire than be subject to the whim of whatever religion holds political power. Midwest LDS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Tyme said: Logic actually says you should kill anybody who gets in your way in any way. That’s another example of how people use emotion to make laws and policy. No it doesn't. That's the opposite of logic. That's animalistic. Logic desires a state where you can exist free from molestation. That's why we have civil rights. We are unique, individual humans with a right to exist. That's why murder is illegal. That's why abortion should be illegal. Murder is the extreme violation of civil liberty. Midwest LDS and unixknight 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 15 minutes ago, Tyme said: Logic actually says you should kill anybody who gets in your way in any way. That’s another example of how people use emotion to make laws and policy. That is not logic... that is total selfishness and emotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyme Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Grunt said: No it doesn't. That's the opposite of logic. That's animalistic. Logic desires a state where you can exist free from molestation. That's why we have civil rights. We are unique, individual humans with a right to exist. That's why murder is illegal. That's why abortion should be illegal. Murder is the extreme violation of civil liberty. If I’m not mistaken when Conservatives bring up logic they mean logical for the country. According to that logic it’s not logical to have people with infirmities in the country. That means any baby with an infirmity should be aborted. It also means any person with an infirmity should be killed. Most pro- life people scream while it’s murder to abort a baby. In other words, they feel sad or mad about it. That’s a raw emotional argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Tyme said: If I’m not mistaken when Conservatives bring up logic they mean logical for the country. According to that logic it’s not logical to have people with infirmities in the country. That means any baby with an infirmity should be aborted. It also means any person with an infirmity should be killed. Most pro- life people scream while it’s murder to abort a baby. In other words, they feel sad or mad about it. That’s a raw emotional argument. You are mistaken. You're also ignoring what I type. I very clearly said it was an extreme violation of individual civil liberty. Serious question: Do you not understand what I'm saying or are you being intentionally obtuse? If the former, I'll try another example. Please don't waste my time if it's the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyme Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Grunt said: You are mistaken. You're also ignoring what I type. I very clearly said it was an extreme violation of individual civil liberty. Serious question: Do you not understand what I'm saying or are you being intentionally obtuse? If the former, I'll try another example. Please don't waste my time if it's the latter. It’s against civil liberty to abort a baby. Check. Is it also against civil liberty for a baby to be born into abject poverty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 Just now, Tyme said: It’s against civil liberty to abort a baby. Check. Is it also against civil liberty for a baby to be born into abject poverty? Of course not. You don't have a civil right to wealth. unixknight and Vort 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyme Posted February 11, 2019 Report Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Grunt said: Of course not. You don't have a civil right to wealth. I guess that’s where we disagree. My belief is that every baby has the right to not be born into poverty. Would a baby be better off not being born or living in poverty? A baby born into poverty is more likely to die younger, end up on prison and a host of other detrimental consequences. Thats where I disagree with the majority of pro-lifers. If the state is going to force a baby to be born then the state has an obligation to that baby. The obligation is that the baby has the same opportunity as any other baby. That would include not being born into poverty. Edited February 11, 2019 by Tyme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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